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Go green, skip the LBS

syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
AngryMetalsmith said:
This is by far your most absurd argument this year Syadasti. Seriously dude, do you just not give a sh!t about your neighbors or are you the one living under a rock ?
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Irene and Sandy were fueled by climate change so irresponsibility on a large scale did hurt my community.

And I went shopping with the current young (inherited) owner of 50 year old corner store a few months ago. Its a dirty hole in the wall and he doesn't care much about keeping it going. We bought inventory at Costco.

Modern America continuously pushes in the wrong direction - healthcare, guns/defense, energy use, education, etc and you are calling me absurd?
 
AngryMetalsmith

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
21,210
10,009
I have no idea where I am
Yes you are being absurd Homey. What you are talking about is just complete bullsh!t. When you stop shopping locally and patronize big box stores you are perpetuating the massive problem this country faces, outsourcing. And where are these goods manufactured ? China. How's their environmental record ?

You argument is self-defeating, please stop and go enjoy a nice bike ride or spend some time with someone you care about.
 
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syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Its not.

Warehouse distribution existed long before big-box stores and the rise of foreign goods as did the traditional auto shop model. Ecommerce has made consumer direct much more practical and it did not drive manufacturing overseas. Its still far more efficient than redundant middlemen - business models change as the technology does.

And how exactly do you expect LBS selling the same exact foreign goods from the same distributor's warehouses to change anything?
 
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gastro

gastro

Monkey
May 16, 2004
500
2
Down by law and I know my way around
syadasti said:
Modern America continuously pushes in the wrong direction - healthcare, guns/defense, energy use, education, etc and you are calling me absurd?
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Subsidies for renewable energy increased 187% from 2007-2010, US power generation from wind increased 27% in 2011 alone, and imports of crude and petroleum products are down to levels of a decade ago. How is that not to your liking?

http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2011/08/03/eia-releases-new-subsidy-report-subsidies-for-renewables-increase-186-percent/
http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=5350
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mttimus1&f=a
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
gastro said:
Subsidies for renewable energy increased 187% from 2007-2010, US power generation from wind increased 27% in 2011 alone, and imports of crude and petroleum products are down to levels of a decade ago. How is that not to your liking?

http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2011/08/03/eia-releases-new-subsidy-report-subsidies-for-renewables-increase-186-percent/
http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=5350
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mttimus1&f=a
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gastro said:
Subsidies for renewable energy increased 187% from 2007-2010, US power generation from wind increased 27% in 2011 alone, and imports of crude and petroleum products are down to levels of a decade ago. How is that not to your liking?
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Germany has more than double we have despite their lack of sun...

In the first six months of 2012, the amount of electricity produced using renewable energy rose from 20% to 25%, bringing the country closer to its targets of 35% by 2020 and 80% by 2050.
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Its not a US priority and people bitch about it (like Solnydra which is nothing compared to defense project failures for a military established to fight against an enemy that no longer exists) and yet not many care about the billions we still give in subsidies to a mature and counterproductive oil and gas industry which ruined the Gulf, makes some of the dirtiest energy on the planet via tar-sands and is pushing a pipeline through despite general rejection of it from both the left and the right, and pushes for unsafe fracking which the industry literature itself shows isn't safe/foolproof like their commercials to the general public claim.
 
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jdcamb

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
19,831
8,423
Nowhere Man!
AngryMetalsmith said:
Answer this; do you like or even care about the people who work in or own the businesses in your neighborhood ?
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Excuse me If I am wrong but the Syadasti lives in a area of wealth and privilege that most of us can't imagine. So I suspect he could care less about anyone but himself.
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
jdcamb said:
Excuse me If I am wrong but the Syadasti lives in a area of wealth and privilege that most of us can't imagine. So I suspect he could care less about anyone but himself.
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I put in about 200 hours at the local wildlife rehab center during the main season, how many hundreds of hours did you put in your community? When I go to visit my sister on vacation I volunteer at the non-profit wildlife reserve she manages that works with universities across the US. I recruited Kevin from ridemonkey who did a few weeks with me there. I also helped run one of the first sea turtle and wildlife rehab veterinary seminars in Central America with world renowned university sea turtle and wildlife veterinary experts from TX, FL, and NY.

How many changes have you or AMS made to cut back on your energy consumption? Do you drive less than 5K miles a year? How many years have you walked or rode to work? Were you in charge of the projects at work that made a 40 year old business a net-zero electric user - one of the few in the world?

So remind me again how you have any place to tell me that you care more about living responsibly.
 
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syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
AngryMetalsmith said:
Not discounting your environmental practices or your efforts with local wildlife, but you still haven't answered my question. Do you care about your neighbors, the human ones ?
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I have, living responsibly takes more effort and requires long term thinking rather than the typical instant gratification people greatly prefer (and in some case never pays off - it costs extra). Lower resource consumption benefits everyone.

During the past two months I fed my neighbors during Sandy. My uncle was wiped out during Sandy and he's living here now and I've helped him out in many ways. I cared for my mother's friend's parrot during Sandy when they had no power. I've donated hundreds of dollars directly to people I personally knew affected by the storm.
 
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AngryMetalsmith

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
21,210
10,009
I have no idea where I am
OK, then how can you ignore them when there is not an emergency ? Just like your birds, people need to eat everyday and shopping locally keeps the money in the community and insures their survival.

living responsibly also means recognizing that your actions have an impact on your local environment as well as the planet.
 
AngryMetalsmith

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
21,210
10,009
I have no idea where I am
While technology has advanced communication in ways never before imagined especially in regards to the internet, our sense of community has diminished. We as a culture are losing that grounding that comes from actual face to face interaction. We become more and more distanced from each other and thus more self-centered and apathetically removed from the system as whole. Ah you say, but the we can communicate with much greater efficiency than ever before. But with every advance in the sharing of information we become one step further away from each other.

Give you an example, have you ever gotten into trouble with your significant other because of texting ? I sure as hell have, because as awesome as my smart phone is, it couldn't tell me what expression was on her face. There is no mood indicator app for this. But, I could tell by the tone of her voice, which seems irrelevant, given the nature of how communication has "advanced" and no one wants to actually talk.

I get that some of us are more adapt at the keyboard and not one-on-one face time. It's not only an essential skill but it's what reminds us that we are all connected on this big blue marble floating around in space.

And with that, I say Happy Holidays and I'm out. Peace Crackahs.
 
W

Whoops

Turbo Monkey
Jul 9, 2006
1,011
0
New Zealand
Painted on local pie shop

"Buy one, or we'll both starve".


Fitting, no?



I will go out of my way to buy from an LBS that gives me value... But. I refuse to buy from a middle man who just clips ticket on way through.
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
The old retail model wastes far more energy than the newer e-commerce business model and that is a significant source of America's excessive consumption. This isn't even considering these days everything is marketed and engineered for us to buy more products and waste more resources (and its a lot easier to sell face to face than online - yet more consumption and waste). Those warehouses will operate and supply you whether buy online or retail.

Developed nations will transition to service and information based economies, nobody said its going to be easy. Economies are not static especially as technology changes. Do you want America to keep fading away to irrelevancy as we waste more resources, nobody is going to wait for us to catchup.
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Whoops said:
I will go out of my way to buy from an LBS that gives me value... But. I refuse to buy from a middle man who just clips ticket on way through.
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I agree completely, the only shop around here that meets my needs and gives good service was a new service-centric extremely small LBS. It was also wiped out by Sandy so I never was able to patronize it - I do most of my repairs myself.
 
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CBJ

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,874
4,214
Copenhagen, Denmark
Ecommerce is growing rapidly like it or not and a lot of jobs will go away. Buyin locally for many items is not the way to save people it's by offering people ways to move to jobs in the new ecomony and educate about the need for change. My parents went through the process in the 80s when better infrastructure and cars made people travel to bigger cities to buy clothing and we sold the clothing store my grandfather started.
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Annual reminder to shop online if you must shop at all. We don't need more Sandy and Haiyan storms. Many at sea level are in trouble all over the world. These are more important issues - don't be part of the status quo problem.

 
D.2

D.2

Monkey
Jun 17, 2010
164
17
Medway, MA
I don't think I could continue to ride without my LBS. I have the mechanical abilities of a 5 year old.
 
Ride Monzie

Ride Monzie

Monkey
Jan 4, 2013
369
0
Killafornia
Don't worry, there's a TL;DR at the bottom you lazy ****ing bastards.

I don't know why everyone is hating on Syadasti. He's making very valid points. We're inefficient and relying on outdated fuel-types. LBS's won't die, sure, some will close, others will open and they will fill a specific purpose. You can care about local economies and community while still being efficient and neighborly.

See, the way most people are framing this argument dialogue is all or nothing but, extremist views/stances don't lead to the best outcomes. It's more efficient and cost effective to order online, this is a fact. The numbers are right there. This doesn't mean the LBS is gonna go out of business; it's just gonna need to be more efficient; this means get rid of most retail wares, keep a few things on hand and do mostly services. Like an auto spot. They use less space, so there's less energy consumed per sqft so there's less waste, more efficiency. You can still bring the owner a sixer of their favorite brew and shoot the ****, it's just gonna be in a smaller premises. And, if you need something they don't have the option to order it is still there and you pay a smaller mark-up which you won't scoff at because you'll be more inclined to pay for the convenience of leaving your bike there and, as soon as the part comes in the work gets done and you get called when it's ready to pick up versus taking everything home, ordering the part, installing it yourself/bringing it back to the shop to install, yada yada. We all win.

As far as fuel goes, I don't understand why people are so afraid to let coal/oil/gas die. It's--again--an inefficient energy source. Much like the 8-track, cassette, record, and CD, those types of energy are no longer sustainable. we need to ditch them and start focusing all of the research on making more energy efficient alternatives. And no, I'm not going to suck wind/solar energy dick; they are still pretty bad. But, that's one of the things we could be researching instead of how best to squeeze a little more energy out of an energy source that's ****ty to begin with. Also, nuclear power is off the charts efficient but it's not renewable. That should be the interim. Fund making that **** safer and stop buying into these ****ing gas/oil companies championing gas/oil because guess what, they ****ing profit from it and their industry is dying.

Sure, some people will lose their jobs. It sucks but it's gonna happen sooner or later, why not see it coming and prepare instead of fighting it? Because guess what? We'll need people to work at the new plants, and they could be them. Start training people now. It really is that simple.

As far as population goes, make it more dense. AngryMetalSmith, this works to your advantage, there will be TONS of new people for you to meet and have a community with. Imagine an entire sky-rise filled with friends! We're a global people now, we need to move on from this narrow view of our surroundings. We are a ****ing planet! The universe is so goddamned massive that we have to view ourselves as one whole planet now. we can't afford to have our heads up our asses. **** the boarders we need real solutions to our population problem and those half-brained ****-wit neanderthals we call "leaders" sure as **** aren't helping matters. It starts with us.

I want what's best for the planet and my species as a whole, a lot of it will take time. But, if there's something we got, it's time. Mandown, you mentioned suicide as the greenest way to help the planet, I almost agree. I did, at one point in my life. Trust, not a day goes by that I don't think about it. Depression's a bitch, yo! I hate the fact that no matter how hard I try I will never be able to not consume resources and that makes me hella sad because everyone is so mother ****ing oblivious to how much the use on the daily it makes me hyper-aware of my consumption. I hate that I use electricity, even to type this. I hate buying new things too, because it contributes to the demand for new product. So, I buy used. But that's no good because it still indirectly contributes to the demand for new product; I'm just displacing it. And that kills me. I hate that one of the only things to bring me joy is a frivolous expenditure and waste of resources. So I think if I kill myself then I'm solid; I've reduced consumption to zero. But that's no good because the entire rest of the ****ing planet is still business as usual. So what I should do is kill other people. That's better. Not just any people, the worst offenders. Heads of businesses that refuse to contribute to planetary health and who have the worst human rights violations. Heads of countries that bend more to the will of these corporations than their own ****ing people. All the while living in the woods without any ****ing amenities to keep my impact as close to zero as humanly possible. This sounds like a plan. **** yeah! It has the added bonus of making people see how out of control we let everything get and maybe becoming proactive in finding solutions. I'll just send letters explaining myself. Except I know the media and government will just paint me as a loony and have me killed or imprisoned for life to protect their status quo. So I guess I stay alive and be miserable and try to help as many people understand this **** as possible because otherwise we're ****ed.

TL;DR: I'm Ted Kaczynski, bitch! We're ****ed and I love my mother ****ing species.
 
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