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The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
Got to watch it yesterday with the kids and have my views of it. Would love to hear from avid Tolkien readers and just plain old movie buffs. My thoughts on it are as follows:

Negatives:

1. Crude crotch inuendo by the dwarf to Tauriel in a children's novel/movie. If you make your movie series around a few simple structures in terms of viewer audience, steer the course. Out of place.
2. Putting orcs in every scene when they have literally no part in the entirety of the book at this point
3. Rooftop tip toe orcs in Lake Town (Lake Town being a VERY well defended location for a reason) but yet in the movie has an open bridge
4. Tombs of the 9. Just those absurd steps up to it even being there. Logic would indicate they would have destroyed that path after the sealing of the tombs
5. Completely changing everything about Beorn and his home (giant bear bum rushing the house).
6. Skipping past the suffering in Mirkwood. That unwinds over a much longer time.
7. The orcs invading the Wood Elves and the whole barrel scene. I love action, but can't stand crap filler like that.
8. Inside the mountain....not one thing other than Bilbo's conversation (let alone that Smaug NEVER sees him in the book) happened in the book
9. Why does Bard look like Legolas? Couldn't vary the look just a smidge....?
10. The battle with the spiders getting blown out and developing into more than just Bilbo STAYING invisible the whole time and being the ONLY hero

Positives:
1. Adding depth by expanding on the battles of Dol Goldur and the fight with the Necromancer
2. Giving a little more creadance to how the orc army forms prior to the battle of the Five Armies
3. Fantastic battle between Gandalf and the Necromancer (even the shadow turned to Sauron turning back into the Eye)
4. A little depth of feeling added by the conversations betwen the Sylvan elf and her dwarf friend
5. Anything that came out of Bilbo's mouth
6. The depth of Beorn's character in human form - Excellent
7. Everything about Smaug's character coming to life
8. The references made to why Sauron is moving armies toward the Lonely Mountain and his efforts to prevent the 7 houses of the dwarves from uniting. Even the implied indication that Smaug is playing a greater role guided by Sauron long before now by being where he is, i.e. to keep the houses of the dwarves devided by guarding the Arkenstone
9. Good usage of tie ins between the current things set into motion that will all play very large parts in the coming war of the One Ring
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,581
12,666
In a van.... down by the river
You have to see it at least twice because you will likely nap through part of it.
Caught the 1st installment on the toob when we were in Death Valley. I left with the wife to drink beer and get pizza for about an hour of it... so probably will "re-see" the 1st one.

Luckily a local place is gonna be showing both back-to-back... and they have beer! WIN.

http://drafthouse.com/denver/littleton
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
Soo all the positives are about stuff that is not in the book at all? :think:
Basically yes. When you read The Hobbit and understand that it was written by Tolkien as a children's book (because back in that day a book was an Xbox), it didn't really lead you into the Lord of the Rings. It made very slight references to larger things going on in the background. The LOTR books weren't even fully realized when he wrote The Hobbit.

But since Lord of the Rings was in movie form first, you can add a lot of additional filling to The Hobbit to piece together Sauron's grand scheme. He didn't leave Smaug hidden in the North to call into the final battle because he needed him to keep the dwarves scattered. In The Hobbit book, the dark army that descends on The Lonely Mountain doesn't care about the treasure. They are sent as all of Sauron's armies over time...to lay waste at times of greatest weakness or points in time where the inhabitants of Middle Earth are banding together.

Key aspects of events in The Hobbit that play out in later books:
Smaug at the borders of Thandruill and the woodland elves
The 3 trolls spying near the gates of Rivendell.
Goblin armies in full force on the back of Rivendell and the borders of Galadriel and Celeborn with the power of a Balrog.

You can sort of tell that within Tolkien's mind, Sauron is moving his two largest pawns as close to the Elven kingdoms as he could. Neat stuff that's worth mentioning in The Hobbit movies

If you're gonna bloat a movie, those are the better ways to do it...as opposed to Legolas rock surfing an Orc.
 
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jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,805
24,381
media blackout
Got to watch it yesterday with the kids and have my views of it. Would love to hear from avid Tolkien readers and just plain old movie buffs. My thoughts on it are as follows:

Negatives:

1. Crude crotch inuendo by the dwarf to Tauriel in a children's novel/movie. If you make your movie series around a few simple structures in terms of viewer audience, steer the course. Out of place.
2. Putting orcs in every scene when they have literally no part in the entirety of the book at this point
3. Rooftop tip toe orcs in Lake Town (Lake Town being a VERY well defended location for a reason) but yet in the movie has an open bridge
4. Tombs of the 9. Just those absurd steps up to it even being there. Logic would indicate they would have destroyed that path after the sealing of the tombs
5. Completely changing everything about Beorn and his home (giant bear bum rushing the house).
6. Skipping past the suffering in Mirkwood. That unwinds over a much longer time.
7. The orcs invading the Wood Elves and the whole barrel scene. I love action, but can't stand crap filler like that.
8. Inside the mountain....not one thing other than Bilbo's conversation (let alone that Smaug NEVER sees him in the book) happened in the book
9. Why does Bard look like Legolas? Couldn't vary the look just a smidge....?
10. The battle with the spiders getting blown out and developing into more than just Bilbo STAYING invisible the whole time and being the ONLY hero

Positives:
1. Adding depth by expanding on the battles of Dol Goldur and the fight with the Necromancer
2. Giving a little more creadance to how the orc army forms prior to the battle of the Five Armies
3. Fantastic battle between Gandalf and the Necromancer (even the shadow turned to Sauron turning back into the Eye)
4. A little depth of feeling added by the conversations betwen the Sylvan elf and her dwarf friend
5. Anything that came out of Bilbo's mouth
6. The depth of Beorn's character in human form - Excellent
7. Everything about Smaug's character coming to life
8. The references made to why Sauron is moving armies toward the Lonely Mountain and his efforts to prevent the 7 houses of the dwarves from uniting. Even the implied indication that Smaug is playing a greater role guided by Sauron long before now by being where he is, i.e. to keep the houses of the dwarves devided by guarding the Arkenstone
9. Good usage of tie ins between the current things set into motion that will all play very large parts in the coming war of the One Ring
tl;dr the resident delicate flower was offended by a movie :rolleyes:
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
40,564
9,570
if your kids go to a public school....they've probably seen crotch humor.....
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
if your kids go to a public school....they've probably seen crotch humor.....
I get that. Did you see the movie? The guy insinuates that he may be hiding something in his pants and she should check them. She retorts there may be nothing in his trousers.

My girls are 7 & 9 and old enough and mature enough kids to watch these movies and throughout all of the LOTR flicks, the conversation level has been devoid of "pervert" talk. If you've spent a dozen years on one project and that line hasn't been crossed, it's idiotic to toss in that one line. It doesn't belong. Sure it's slightly "dirty", but it's totally out of context too.

Heck, they even take those same two characters and try to delve into a romance with them that you actually can relate to later on.

I'm not butthurt though...that will probably come in the 3rd installment. :)
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,362
1,598
Warsaw :/
I've enjoyed the hobbit but why wouldn't it be better to start a discussion about a movie that is actually good?

@Butch - Jackson supposedly used a lot of Tolkiens notes he made after writing LOTR when he thought about expanding the hobbit story. 200-300 pages more if I'm correct.
 
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bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
Person takes 7 & 9 yo to a PG-13 rated movie and then complains about crotch-humor. :think:
I check the MPAA rating for PG-13. This was the rating "Rated PG-13 for extended sequences of intense fantasy action violence, and frightening images"

Again, not complaining about it in that context. Complaining that it's like going to watch an original Shakespeare play and one guy blurts out the word "Bro" in the 3rd act for no apparent reason. :D
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
.

@Butch - Jackson supposedly used a lot of Tolkiens notes he made after writing LOTR when he thought about expanding the hobbit story. 200-300 pages more if I'm correct.
That's cool to know. Would love to know which parts he's trying to fill in with Tolkien's actual concepts.
Tolkien's characters were always "slightly" far fetched, but just a hair more believable than other fantasy genre stuff.

I notice little things. They tried to figure out ways to keep the dwarves "dwarfish", even in little scenes where their hands were shown articulating extensively. They'd fatten and broaden them.
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,581
12,666
In a van.... down by the river
<snip>
Again, not complaining about it in that context. Complaining that it's like going to watch an original Shakespeare play and one guy blurts out the word "Bro" in the 3rd act for no apparent reason. :D
That's up to the director, Nimrod. And the producers.

Complaining about *anything* Hollywood does is kinda retaaaaaahded, IMO anyways.
 

bean

Turbo Monkey
Feb 16, 2004
1,335
0
Boulder
I got dragged to the first hobbit movie and hated it. There's no way I'm paying to see another.

The Hobbit was 300 pages. The LoTR books were 432, 352, and 432 pages. Those three were made into three movies, and the Hobbit with less material than any of them was stretched out to three? Makes no sense (aside from the financial benefits for Jackson and the studio). And all the additional stuff they added just slowed down the pace of the movie while adding nothing to the story.

Based on what I saw in that one, there's probably a single decent movie that could be made by cutting all the unnecessary garbage out of the three.
 
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bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
I got dragged to the first hobbit movie and hated it. There's no way I'm paying to see another.

The Hobbit was 300 pages. The LoTR books were 432, 352, and 432 pages. Those three were made into three movies, and the Hobbit with less material than any of them was stretched out to three? Makes no sense (aside from the financial benefits for Jackson and the studio). And all the additional stuff they added just slowed down the pace of the movie while adding nothing to the story.

Based on what I saw in that one, there's probably a single decent movie that could be made by cutting all the unnecessary garbage out of the three.
Smaug is great in the movie. Personality of a dragon stealing the stage is impressive to say the least and every minute of his dialogue is impressive though. We did not watch it in 3D and I don't know what element that would add to the experience either. I still think it's worth going to see on the big screen though.

I think it just suffers from not really having a way to make it start, grow and end in a well thought out manner. I just consider it a way to get to the truly visually stunning 3rd piece.

The third movie will have so very much good though. Smaug's attack, the darkness of greed growing on Thorin and the build up and climax of the Battle of Five Armies!
 

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
The movie wasn't bad, but in all of the LOTR movies, there is too much fluff. They could easily cut 30 minutes out of each movie.
 

Leppah

Turbo Monkey
Mar 12, 2008
2,294
3
Utar
I saw the movie and liked it a lot. I'm a huge fan of the LOTR movies. Never read any of the books, but I loved the movies.
The HObbit Desolation was good. Better than the first Hobbit movie. Even I felt that it was a tad long, but I'm biased and I think I'd like the movies even if they sucked horribly.
I did like how much Smaug was in this movie. I thought he'd only be in it for around 3 minutes or so. I had no idea he'd be in it that long.
 

Leppah

Turbo Monkey
Mar 12, 2008
2,294
3
Utar
I know. I am a horrible, horrible person. I just have issues reading. As soon as i start reading a book, it falls on my face and i'm ready to sleep.
Maybe that's why i like the movies so much. It seems like most people that read the books aren't very fond of the movies.
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,581
12,666
In a van.... down by the river
I know. I am a horrible, horrible person. I just have issues reading. As soon as i start reading a book, it falls on my face and i'm ready to sleep.
Quit smoking so much weed just before reading. :D
Maybe that's why i like the movies so much. It seems like most people that read the books aren't very fond of the movies.
Nah - I've read LOTR multiple times and I still enjoy the movies a lot. Dunno yet about the Hobbit... will have to see and then judge.