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Time to babble about brakes

I have been happily using one variety or another of Hayes HFX brakes for years. I brought the bike (2007 Heckler) in for routine maintenance last week, picked it up today. They suggested switching to Shimano Deores. I'm not very enthused about mineral oil as brake fluid, especially when it gets cold. We discussed it and they suggested Aavid Juicy 7s.

Proceed with the brake war.
 

ICEBALL585

Bacontard
Sep 8, 2009
6,803
2,041
.:585:.
Wait... bikes have brakes?!? Is that what those levers are for???

I usually just drag my feet or crash at the end of the trail :D
 

Da Peach

Outwitted by a rodent
Jul 2, 2002
13,681
4,904
North Van
I bought some Juicy 5s about 4 years ago to upgrade my HFXs on my Iron Horse. Awesome brakes. I'm on my 3rd set of pads, and I've never bled them. They still feel new.

I'm guessing 7s are at least 2 better than that.

That said, I've got some fancy XTRs on my new bike, and they're really nice. More bells and whistles. (lever adjust is nice). The same can be had on the SLXs, and the feel is great. Might be a worthwhile step up from the Deores.

No idea on the effect of real cold on the different fluids though.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
Mineral Oil works fine in the cold.
:stupid:

Some of the older Shimanos had some issues with seals contracting and getting leaky in super cold weather, but they've got that sorted. There's nothing wrong with mineral oil in the cold. I've owned brakes from Shimano, Avid, Hope and Formula, and am consistently the most impressed with Shimano.
 

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,863
4,162
Copenhagen, Denmark
It seems like most companies do well with xc brakes. I think people forget to thinking about ergonomics. For me being able to place the lever where I like it and get it close enough to the bar is much more important than what brand I would buy. Personally that last several years I have ridden Formula brakes and with great success both on the DH bike and the XC bike.
 
My brakes are tatty and beat to hell. Front hose is a rch too short, which they observed. I think they got into the "hose would cost x, install would cost y, that would just about buy a new brake" loop, which I'm somewhat sympathetic to.

For however well or ill I ride, the HFXs have been adequate for my needs and have proven reliable. The major weakness observed is that if I crash such that I hyperextend the lever, it rips the guts out of the master cylinder and it costs almost as much to get the repair parts as to buy a whole new brake, hose, and caliper.

I'm not hot to replace the brakes, their suggestion just got me to thinking.
 
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CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,863
4,162
Copenhagen, Denmark
Going to a new brake will be something you will notice and appreciate too. We are talking about brakes its a pretty important part of the bike and something I find worth spending a little bit of money on.
 

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
21,081
9,791
I have no idea where I am
:stupid:

Some of the older Shimanos had some issues with seals contracting and getting leaky in super cold weather, but they've got that sorted. There's nothing wrong with mineral oil in the cold. I've owned brakes from Shimano, Avid, Hope and Formula, and am consistently the most impressed with Shimano.
I have a set of old XTs, the ones with the longer levers:



There is an issue with riding in the cold, but it only effects the feel of the lever and not the brakes stopping power.

Out of all the brakes I've had these old school shimanos have been my favorites. They modulate like no other brand, and they're consistent.

I like the power of the new Shimanos, but not the short "one finger" lever. Just a personal preference for two on the rear and one in front.
 
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ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,147
796
Lima, Peru, Peru
shimano slx for the victory.

i have some slx con my all mountain bike and some top of the line avid codes on my downhill bike.
for anything but 10000ft+ vertical downhills; i prefer the slx brakes, even without all the fancy adjustments....
 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,884
448
I have found the "low end" version of most brakes to be reliable, and most of the adjustments don't do anything worthwhile once the brake is set up properly anyway. I think $100 an end with rotors and adapters is usually achievable with some searching.
Juicy 5, elixir 5, slx, deore- I've had great luck with all of them.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,855
9,560
AK
Wait, I shouldn't have been riding discs when it was -15 a few weeks back? Crap! Why didn't anyone tell me?
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,573
24,191
media blackout
Avid brakes blow. The only reason I have a set of juicys on my xc bike is that they were given to me. I wouldn't have paid for them.

Get shimanoand be done with it.
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,637
5,450
I second the above Shimano comment but they did have some seriously ****ful XT and SLX brakes in early 2013, the levers feel crap too but that's a personal thing.

I still like my Maguras, the two sets before were crap but the MT models are good and they have the 5yr leakproof guarantee so all you do is bleed them and replace pads unlike Hope which need greased pistons and a bleed at every pad change and then they still only work Tue-Thurs like everything from the UK.
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,504
In hell. Welcome!
In 2012, many of the XTs suffered from a bad leak from hose banjo. I used a banjo from XTRs and never had any problems since.
Stay away from Magura MTs. I have a pair of MT8, they blow. Older models like Marta and Louise were mucho better IMO.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
15,828
13,066
Juicy 7's are an 8+ year old design, I wouldn't class them as much of an upgrade from anything at this point.

Plenty of better options.
 

bean

Turbo Monkey
Feb 16, 2004
1,335
0
Boulder
I've never tried Shimanos. I had Juicy brakes (I think 7s) on a bike a little while ago and had some pretty loud squeal and shudder that I could never get rid of.
 

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
23,928
14,450
where the trails are
Shimano brakes on all my bikes. I have a pair of M800 (old Saints) which work great and feel better than the new Avid's I've tried. No reason to change 'em but I LOVE the short 1-finger levers on the new models and will surely go that route sooner or later.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,573
24,191
media blackout
I second the above Shimano comment but they did have some seriously ****ful XT and SLX brakes in early 2013, the levers feel crap too but that's a personal thing.
From what I've heard the issues with the 2013 was limited to the early runs, I picked up a set of xt's at the end of the season and they've been rock solid. And the new levers don't feel quite as good as the old ones, but better than avid IMO. Personally I am a fan of the single finger design.
 

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
21,081
9,791
I have no idea where I am
...unlike Hope which need greased pistons and a bleed at every pad change and then they still only work Tue-Thurs like everything from the UK.
Only every pad change ? Mine needed bleeding mid run.

Scariest thing I've ever done on a bike was ride Farlow Gap in Pisgah without a working rear brake. You could grab a fist full of lever and all you had was the Hope of slowing down.
 

gawdodirt

Chimp
Dec 14, 2013
10
0
Phoenix AZ
I have Juicy 7's on a 2011 Heckler with 203mm rotors frt and back. They work fine but fade when abused. My FR/DH bike, 2007 VP Free came with Hayes Stroker Ace 4 pot brakes. These things are 1 finger masters and can stop my truck. Great modulation, and a wide array of pad compounds available. 203 mm rotors as well.
My son was looking for better brakes for his 1012 Status, and ended up ordering these as well for $100 an end. Loves them over the Juicy 5's he sold.
Anything 4 pot will be an improvement over 2. But the size of the rotor has a greater affect than the caliper. Go as big as you can.

GD
 
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amishmatt

Turbo Monkey
Sep 21, 2005
1,263
396
Lancaster, PA
Another vote for Shimano. XT, SLX, pick your flavor, the new ones are all good. Even the Deore feel great.

I'm probably at least 200# geared up these days, and 160mm front and rear work great for me. Thought I'd go up to 185mm, but haven't felt the need.

Super simple to bleed, minimal maintenance required, great one-finger power, I can't find a fault with them.

Oh, and they work just fine with non-Shimano rotors.
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,637
5,450
My Magura MT6 lasted a shade over a year then the rear master cyl started leaking from the piston seal and both brakes went like old Avids where the levers would spring forward. Also every time the bike was pulled out of the car it would take a few minutes of riding to get the lever feel back to normal.

All in all a pretty crap brake that cook in no time and don't suit people with small hands, a brake to avoid for sure. I can't stand my current Shimano lever so I'm going to try my first Sram brake I think.
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,637
5,450
Yeah I know but I'd post in it before about the same brakes, I shot Magura an email asking about parts/warranty so I'll see what happens. Having a spare set of brakes would be handy.
 

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
19,800
8,383
Nowhere Man!
Not sure how fellating his brakes would help, but whatever.
I am not sure what went wrong with you to align fellatio with servicing Bicycle brakes? I am sure it something twisted and strange that none of us would feel comfortable knowing. You realize that with age your perversions will fester and intensify? I suspect that at some point during your development you came into contact with Jesuits.