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Why Can't Anyone Service My RS Blackbox Rear Shock ?

peecee

peecee

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Apr 27, 2012
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This forum is my last resort I have asked many people/industry pro's from around the world but I need to hear more opinions from the many brains that are on here.

Back in 2007 I think it was I saw a Rockshox rear shock on ebay.com.au I knew what it was as soon as I saw it and placed a bid and I end up winning it and am pretty happy, after a few weeks I did a bit of digging around and it turns out its a Rockshox Blackbox rear shock from Sean McCarroll's Global Orange 222/223 from the early 00's.

A few months go by and even thou the shock is working off the bike with no spring I rang TFTuning to see if they could help me out, I end up talking to Tim who says each unit cost $7500USD and that its property of RS and I should not not have it and is not willing to touch it.
So after a few years I take it to Canberra for the worlds and take it to the RS tech truck where they say they are to busy to service it but were not really fazed I had it. (Tech has come along way and this shock became the vivid).

At the beginning of 2013 I bought a Giant ATX DH Team I spent a crap load of money on turning it into a Rob Warner replica, turns out the picture I build the replica from Rob has a RS Blackbox shock which to my surprise is also a funny size but fits perfectly 8.5x2.75, after putting it on the bike and swinging a leg over without putting my full weight on the bike pop and there is oil everywhere.

For the last year I have been trying to get this shock serviced but TF say that they have no seals and they cannot get them anymore. I was lucky enough to have a word with Nigel Reeves who is Steve Smith mechanic who runs RS and owns the best service centre here in Australia NSDynamics, he also mentioned that it could be taken apart but orings and seals would be hard to find so its basically just a piece for the wall.

There was one guy who I spoke to called Jerry from HippieTech Suspension but after paying him to make me a custom made shock from the NOS stuff he sells on ebay I would not trust him some of the worst business practices I have ever come across, the first shock never arrived!!! and after months I end up getting one thats turns up new and perfect size but pissing out of oil as soon as I took it out of the jiffy bag, after a few emails and another wait of about a month I get another which is also leaky and who does not answer emails anymore.

Is it really that hard to take a shock apart and try and match orings and seals ?

Can you recommend anyone that would have a look and get her up and running ?

I tried uploading pics but for some reason no matter what computer I use (all apple) the come up showing the blue box with a ? inside so I have linked some shots I put on Pinkbike
http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/10536890/
http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/10536893/
http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/10536892/
http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/10536891/
http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/10327849/
 
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jonKranked

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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Why Can't Anyone Service My RS Blackbox Rear Shock ?

because it's a in-house prototype that is non-production, and only intended for a select group of RS sponsored racers. I can't think of a company out there, cycling related or otherwise, that would service that kind of product if/when it found it's way into the hands of the general public.

Anything you do to try and rebuild it, you do so at your own risk.


OK now that the legal disclaimers are out of the way, it's a piece of suspension, not a spaceship or anything. try digging up an old PDL manual and a vivid manual, and you're probably somewhere between the two. if you're adept at rebuilding or servicing other shocks, you should be able to get yourself sorted.
 
bizutch

bizutch

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I'm assuming this a love affair with things that are rare and not based on any sort of desire to actually get out and ride. If so, I look forward to the chronicling of such an arduous task and wish you the best of luck in this restoration project.

If you are literally not getting to ride because you are waiting on a special kind of turd polish that only exists in Greek legend, I am eager to watch the shenanigans all the same. :thumb:
 
peecee

peecee

Monkey
Apr 27, 2012
232
42
Australia
jonKranked said:
Why Can't Anyone Service My RS Blackbox Rear Shock ?

because it's a in-house prototype that is non-production, and only intended for a select group of RS sponsored racers. I can't think of a company out there, cycling related or otherwise, that would service that kind of product if/when it found it's way into the hands of the general public.
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I understand this part as mentioned Tf did not want to touch it and RS said they were to busy and not fazed I had it. After leaving it for a few years I spoke to TF who were willing to service after I told what happened when I took it to the SRAM bus at the worlds, but they didn't have any parts and could not really tell me where I could find them

I want it built so I can have it on the bike and ride it, a few people on another forum mentioned that I should take it to Cairns here in Oz for the first dh round and try get Rob Warner to do the track ride for Redbull TV on it. Hence the reason I would like this build as close as possible to what he use to ride.

Seen here
http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/10538637/
 
OGRipper

OGRipper

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Feb 3, 2004
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This seems kind of obvious but instead of just walking up to a race support truck randomly, have you tried calling or emailing SRAM's tech support during a normal business day?

Those race guys are usually pretty slammed and they won't have parts for that kind of thing.

But in general, yeah, good luck.
 
R

Rider15

Chimp
Dec 13, 2008
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peecee said:
but they didn't have any parts and could not really tell me where I could find them
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Here in lies your problem, I doubt anyone is making the required seals/o-rings/parts anymore. This shock is 13 years old and even when it was made it may have been the only one or part of a hand full of the shocks made. Being the bike industry people dont carry stock for previous generation parts let alone a custom one off shock that is 14 years old.

Having said that, have you taken it to Aaron at NS, im sure he would at least be willing to pull it apart for you and see if it is at all possible to rebuild.
 
S

Steve M

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Mar 3, 2007
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Peecee, we can check it out for you, though you'd have to send it to us here in Canada. Shoot me an email, steve at vorsprungsuspension dot com.
 
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peecee

peecee

Monkey
Apr 27, 2012
232
42
Australia
Rider15 said:
Here in lies your problem, I doubt anyone is making the required seals/o-rings/parts anymore. This shock is 13 years old and even when it was made it may have been the only one or part of a hand full of the shocks made. Being the bike industry people dont carry stock for previous generation parts let alone a custom one off shock that is 14 years old.
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I kinda understand this but not being the most tech suspension tech savvy guy in the world what do seals look like ?

Im sure there are a million and 1 different orings out there in the world as so many things use them of all shapes and sizes.

Do you reckon Rockshox want it back in exchange for a new vivid shock haha
 
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Jm_

Jm_

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Rider15 said:
Here in lies your problem, I doubt anyone is making the required seals/o-rings/parts anymore. This shock is 13 years old and even when it was made it may have been the only one or part of a hand full of the shocks made. Being the bike industry people dont carry stock for previous generation parts let alone a custom one off shock that is 14 years old.

Having said that, have you taken it to Aaron at NS, im sure he would at least be willing to pull it apart for you and see if it is at all possible to rebuild.
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Sure there's seals, just no one is sure what the specs are and they haven't tested to see if a "15mm seal" will seal the shaft that requires a "15mm seal", because the actual tolerances aren't known and tested. Make no mistake, there are plenty of seals and bushings out there and I'm sure if you knew WHAT to get it wouldn't be an issue, just that since no one services it they don't have this info handy or the parts on hand, there's no information on it.

See if Avalanche will work on it, they've stepped up big time with their aftermarket shock service, so they must be stocking lots of different sized parts, they can machine stuff and they can probably order the seals that might be necessary.

(of course, it's probably just better to get a decent new shock, get it tuned by avalanche if you want it to be better than the black box)
 
Jm_

Jm_

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Steve M said:
Peecee, we can check it out for you, though you'd have to send it to us here in Canada. Shoot me an email, steve at vorsprungsuspension dot com.
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We will reverse engineer it for you :D !
 
Jm_

Jm_

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wysiwyg said:
Is it nitrogen charged? If so I wouldn't dismantle. If you can pump it up. Let the air out and whip it apart. Get the orings matched.
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Actually, it's filled with vaporized pot, so I recommend getting real close when opening it up to inhale as much of it as possible.
 
peecee

peecee

Monkey
Apr 27, 2012
232
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Australia
Jm_ said:
(of course, it's probably just better to get a decent new shock, get it tuned by avalanche if you want it to be better than the black box)
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Probably but its a retro built almost to exact specs I dont do things by halfs hence the reason if i get this working it will almost be an exact team replica
 
4130biker

4130biker

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Have you considered having Rob Warner do a track preview on a retro build, but with a blown shock? ;)
 
peecee

peecee

Monkey
Apr 27, 2012
232
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Australia
4130biker said:
Have you considered having Rob Warner do a track preview on a retro build, but with a blown shock? ;)
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Nope!

Does anyone have a contact for SRAM that will actually get to the people I need to talk to and not just a receptionist chewing gum while playing with her hair.

I wonder how close the seal/o-rings are from the brand new shock that I got built ? I mentioned that its leaking a little and I mean a little but its out of the other end where he obviously didnt do it up tight enough in the vice clamp.
 
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C

csermonet

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Mar 5, 2010
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peecee said:
Probably but its a retro built almost to exact specs I dont do things by halfs hence the reason if i get this working it will almost be an exact team replica
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for reference, this is a retro build that was not done "in halves"

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=187665




If you aren't going balls to the wall restore, just throw something on there that is going to work instead of going through the headache to get 1/1 10 year old shock rebuilt
 
S

Steve M

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Mar 3, 2007
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Jm_ said:
We will reverse engineer it for you :D !
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haha. We stock several hundred different sizes of seals, and can get hold of almost anything else quite rapidly. Most shocks don't use proprietary seals that aren't available elsewhere, almost everything is commercially available if you know where to look for it, and those that aren't can be custom made with little effort. Unless metal parts are damaged, there will be no problem rebuilding that shock.
 
peecee

peecee

Monkey
Apr 27, 2012
232
42
Australia
csermonet said:
for reference, this is a retro build that was not done "in halves"

If you aren't going balls to the wall restore, just throw something on there that is going to work instead of going through the headache to get 1/1 10 year old shock rebuilt
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Great build and I followed that bike build but I was not into making my Giant into a motorbike with no engine!

I sourced so many parts that were NOS (the wheels and discs cost me $1000 yes prices in Australia are crazy but for brand new boxed stock I could not say no) the shock that is on the bike now as pictured in the link a few posts back works fine (just) but if I can get this shock up and running to get the bike almost identical to the image from Dirt in 1999 that I went off it then why wouldn't I (you) ?

I can't see how my build is not a "balls to the wall" (If thats the way you like it by the sounds of it) build as you like to call them pretty sure I didn't see any people like yourself having a dig at the guy who built that Specialized FSR Palmer replica in Dirt a few years ago and that was a build just like my own from an image and trying to source every part exactly to spec!
 
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Muddy

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peecee said:
Great build and I followed that bike build but I was not into making my Giant into a motorbike with no engine!

I sourced so many parts that were NOS (the wheels and discs cost me $1000 yes prices in Australia are crazy but for brand new boxed stock I could not say no) the shock that is on the bike now as pictured in the link a few posts back works fine (just) but if I can get this shock up and running to get the bike almost identical to the image from Dirt in 1999 that I went off it then why wouldn't I (you) ?

I can't see how my build is not a "balls to the wall" (If thats the way you like it by the sounds of it) build as you like to call them pretty sure I didn't see any people like yourself having a dig at the guy who built that Specialized FSR Palmer replica in Dirt a few years ago and that was a build just like my own from an image and trying to source every part exactly to spec!
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Your first post on this buildup made things quite clear what the intentions were for the build - a recreation of the original. Don't let an eBay troll undermine your progress - that thing is sick and has a home already.
I've been given good info and help from RockShox in Chi-Town, perhaps you simply need to get in touch w/ an Authorized RockShox center near you.
Best of luck with it all.
 
bizutch

bizutch

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4130biker said:
Have you considered having Rob Warner do a track preview on a retro build, but with a blown shock? ;)
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That wouldn't be a replica, that would be an exact repeat of virtually every run those poor Giant riders had to take on those turds. Remember Rockwell winning Mt. Snow on a blown one? When he came out of Yard Sale, it sounded like a shopping cart.

Steve M said:
haha. We stock several hundred different sizes of seals, and can get hold of almost anything else quite rapidly. Most shocks don't use proprietary seals that aren't available elsewhere, almost everything is commercially available if you know where to look for it, and those that aren't can be custom made with little effort. Unless metal parts are damaged, there will be no problem rebuilding that shock.
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And now imagine getting it in your shop and it being just a few 100ths of a mm out of tolerance from spec and possibly being tossed because it was just a poorly machined nightmare (granted you see that stuff daily)
. :rofl:
 
4130biker

4130biker

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bizutch said:
That wouldn't be a replica, that would be an exact repeat of virtually every run those poor Giant riders had to take on those turds.
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That's what I was getting at, but some don't see the humor in this. Warner riding a clapped out ATX for a course preview would be priceless!

Edit: this is not to take away from the original idea, which I think is awesome and I'd love to see it. Just offering invaluable RM "input"...
 
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peecee

peecee

Monkey
Apr 27, 2012
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Australia
OGRipper said:
Unless this is based on a prior attempt/actual experience, your attitude sucks.
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First off are you a girl ?

ok ok It was meant to be a bit of a joke but I guess thats the internet for ya everyone takes things to seriously sometimes when humour from different countries gets a little lost just like me a few posts ago, look up ^ keep looking.

But it kind of is from experience I had a question about the older 1999 151 boxxers a few months ago emailed every contact I could find in the US and even Europe and tried contacting them on there facebook page and by private message, with not one reply.

Once again does anyone have a email contact for someone at SRAM ?
 
Jm_

Jm_

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peecee said:
First off are you a girl ?

ok ok It was meant to be a bit of a joke but I guess thats the internet for ya everyone takes things to seriously sometimes when humour from different countries gets a little lost just like me a few posts ago, look up ^ keep looking.

But it kind of is from experience I had a question about the older 1999 151 boxxers a few months ago emailed every contact I could find in the US and even Europe and tried contacting them on there facebook page and by private message, with not one reply.

Once again does anyone have a email contact for someone at SRAM ?
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I had a pair of a set of a pair of 1999 boxxers. Fun to look at, not so much to ride.
 
peecee

peecee

Monkey
Apr 27, 2012
232
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Australia
Jm_ said:
I had a pair of a set of a pair of 1999 boxxers. Fun to look at, not so much to ride.
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True not great compared to todays tech but things can be done to help i have 3 pairs of 151's 2 which have had the once over from TFTuning so there a lot better than the ones that don't get the treatment.

"What is Boxxer 'TF Tuning' on '98-'02 Forks?
TF tuning is a modification to the compression damping that increases low to mid speed compression without causing high speed spiking. It also increases the rebound damping throughout the range which is its main benefit. It's the same mod we performed on the Boxxer's that top riders like Steve Peat rode all through the '01 & '02 seasons"

Just wish I didn't leave it 3/4 years to get back to them about the BB rear shock.
 
HardtailHack

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peecee said:
I wonder how close the seal/o-rings are from the brand new shock that I got built ? I mentioned that its leaking a little and I mean a little but its out of the other end where he obviously didnt do it up tight enough in the vice clamp.
Click to expand...
Maybe it's like a Blackbird and leaks 'til it's up and running?
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
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peecee said:
True not great compared to todays tech but things can be done to help
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No, not even close. Those were pumping-rod forks with 1970s mx technology. They were horrible. They had a decent chassi (seal problems weren't as widespread as claimed IMO), especially for the day, but the internals were an absolute joke in terms of damping.
 
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