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Enduro 29 or other big wheeled aggro trail bikes?

Sandwich

Sandwich

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To my understanding, 142+ hubs only fit specialized 142+ frames. You can use regular 142 hubs on specialized 142+ frames, however, but you can't use 142+ hubs in a 142 frame. It's not a big deal for an upgrade, but it'll suck to have the hub sitting around with no resale.

The shock mount isn't the end of the world, as the leverage rate isn't stupid and you can get a ccdb, so I'd be quite happy with that. Still, I wouldn't be able to resell the fox, and ideally I would have a burly wheelset and coil shock for dh days, and a light wheelset with the fox shock for xc trail.

I guess I've answered my own question, in the end. The bmc does come in a 4g tf03 variant, but the spec is similarly speced. There is the devinci Troy, but it's not very well liked.
 
Jm_

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jackalope said:
There seems to be plenty of solid 5" (or less) 29r models out there, and I've been told that wagon wheels make up for less travel due to the unstoppable rollover technologies.
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You forgot to add they have bat **** crazy long wheelbases.

If a 29er wheel is more stable than a 26er due to increased gyroscopic forces, why does a 29er chainstay need to be longer? So it can be more more stable?
 
D

dropmachine

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Sep 7, 2001
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Your face.
Arguing that Specialized has made a 29er ride decently is like saying your friend managed to have a crap that smelled halfway pleasant.
 
norbar

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Sandwich said:
Name one. BMC trailfox? Got lukewarm reviews and the frame retails for more than the entire bike that I want. Lenz lunchbox? Mr. lenz has never heard of antisquat. Ibis ripley? Chainstays more than half an inch longer, frame retails for a few hundred less than the bike I want. 650b? Generally an excuse for manufacturers that didn't come out with 29" fast enough, or couldn't get creative enough with big wheels.

I'd love to know of a single other manufacturer that has done as much with the 29" wheel that specialized has. A single bike that has gotten as good reviews as the derpo 29er has, from PB, Vital, NSMB, Bike mag, VT mtb, MBA, and user reviews, and comes in well equipped at 3200. Name it, cause I'll buy it tomorrow.
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I won't argue with you on the price but anti squat? Spesh is far from a good pedaller but if you want something with a short back end then year it's the way to go.

Personally I could live with 440mm back end but call me an idealist and even if they were the only option I would not support a company that is toxic to the community.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

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I moved your posts so we can continue bickering over here.



http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2013/09/niner-wfo-9-2014.html

So it's pretty compatible to the bmc tf01, which is pretty compatible to the later dw links. While I certainly wouldn't mind over 100% as throughout, over 100% through sag is pretty good, and I'm not sure I see the value of over 100% as you get deeper into travel. In this case I think the proof is in The pudding, as most riders love dw's as curve, so there must be something to it. Tl;dr on paper it's nowhere near a bad pedaling bike, and should be much better than the kona and a little worse than the banshee, but it has world beating geometry.
 
Jm_

Jm_

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dropmachine.com said:
To clear the frame would be the most obvious answer.
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But wait, a handful of companies are able to make 29er FS bikes without crazy-long chainstays. So no, not really valid, right? What we are finally starting to see is 29er bikes designed as 29ers from the ground up without compromising geometry, rather than "well, lets just stretch the wheelbase 2" so we can fit a derailleur and pivot in there".
 
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4130biker

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This thread does have some key RM flashpoints: 1. Specialized (satan). 2. 29" wheels (ugh). 3. It is tiptoeing awfully close to the "e" word (bike model name pre-dating said riding style does not count)
 
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Sandwich

Sandwich

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TrumbullHucker said:
could have sworn this was a downhill forum
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This is RM's only place where people "actually talk about bikes". Not to say there isn't other fluff, but you won't see technical discussions in freeride or AM/XC...cause nobody goes there.

Jm_ said:
But wait, a handful of companies are able to make 29er FS bikes without crazy-long chainstays. So no, not really valid, right? What we are finally starting to see is 29er bikes designed as 29ers from the ground up without compromising geometry, rather than "well, lets just stretch the wheelbase 2" so we can fit a derailleur and pivot in there".
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I won't lie, I think the aggressive 29er is dead in the water. People bought into 650b hard, and manufacturers can put significantly less effort into designing a decent riding 650b bike than they would have to in a decent riding 29er. I mean, just look at all the bikes with longer dropouts that are now "650b compatible". Zero geometric change, no consideration for trail or A2C changes, even BB sometimes gets neglected...but it fits 650beeeeeeeeez!

of course, that's why I went out and bought this:


I'm legitimately surprised at how well it pedals. The true will of course not be in a parking lot or over stairs, but between a fair amount of chain pull in the low ring, I think this thing will sing with a 28t single front, or just leave it as is and be the last person in the world running a dual ring.
 
V

vikingboy

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Sandwich said:
This is RM's only place where people "actually talk about bikes". Not to say there isn't other fluff, but you won't see technical discussions in freeride or AM/XC...cause nobody goes there.



I won't lie, I think the aggressive 29er is dead in the water. People bought into 650b hard, and manufacturers can put significantly less effort into designing a decent riding 650b bike than they would have to in a decent riding 29er. I mean, just look at all the bikes with longer dropouts that are now "650b compatible". Zero geometric change, no consideration for trail or A2C changes, even BB sometimes gets neglected...but it fits 650beeeeeeeeez!

of course, that's why I went out and bought this:


I'm legitimately surprised at how well it pedals. The true will of course not be in a parking lot or over stairs, but between a fair amount of chain pull in the low ring, I think this thing will sing with a 28t single front, or just leave it as is and be the last person in the world running a dual ring.
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Great bikes, I'd go with a 30T up front and a XX1/X01 10-42 cassette out back, probably what Im going to stick on my SX 4x ride.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

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jonKranked said:
you didn't hold out for the TLD special edition?
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The LBS offered me the special TLD matched set jammies, but the bike is all black, and I wouldn't be caught dead in anything other than head to toe neon pink and pea green.

vikingboy said:
Great bikes, I'd go with a 30T up front and a XX1/X01 10-42 cassette out back, probably what Im going to stick on my SX 4x ride.
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I test rode the expert, which is all carbon fanciness, but the damned drivetrain is $1000, and I sure as hell don't want to replace a $300 cassette and $70 chain in a year. I think I'd probably go 28t front, then 1x10 rear with the 11-36 (smaller = lighter), or even try out a fancy 40t ring and drop whatever they tell me to. As I said though, the two ring setup was pretty silent with the little roller and clutch derailleur, so I'm excited to try it out. I'm thrilled that the bike came spec'ed so well though, with the pike up front.
 
mattmatt86

mattmatt86

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Sandwich said:
I test rode the expert, which is all carbon fanciness, but the damned drivetrain is $1000, and I sure as hell don't want to replace a $300 cassette and $70 chain in a year. I think I'd probably go 28t front, then 1x10 rear with the 11-36 (smaller = lighter), or even try out a fancy 40t ring and drop whatever they tell me to. As I said though, the two ring setup was pretty silent with the little roller and clutch derailleur, so I'm excited to try it out. I'm thrilled that the bike came spec'ed so well though, with the pike up front.
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Just an FYI. All of Sram's (and shimano) 11-36 cassettes and even 11-34s are heavier, over 100 grams more than the 10-42 offerings. I have a SLX 11-36t cassette on my bike and it feels like a shot put in my hand. Extensive machining on the X01 and XX1 makes them significantly lighter, for their gear range, but that's also one of the reasons they cost so much more.
 
Sandwich

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So it looks like SRAM's 1080 comes in at 239, MSRP 280
1099 208g $395
1195 275g $399
1199 260g $425

So you can still get a lighter 10 speed than either of the 11s by ~20-30g, although the XD driver looks like it saves 13g. So yeah, it's lighter, but if you DON'T go 11 speed, you would save a minimum of $120, plus $85 on a new cassette body...and the shifter...and the chain...and the ring.... of course if you went cheapo and grabbed an SLX, you'd add 100g, but you'd save $200, which could buy you a nice OTPHJ or 10.
 
mattmatt86

mattmatt86

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Sandwich said:
So it looks like SRAM's 1080 comes in at 239, MSRP 280
1099 208g $395
1195 275g $399
1199 260g $425

So you can still get a lighter 10 speed than either of the 11s by ~20-30g, although the XD driver looks like it saves 13g. So yeah, it's lighter, but if you DON'T go 11 speed, you would save a minimum of $120, plus $85 on a new cassette body...and the shifter...and the chain...and the ring.... of course if you went cheapo and grabbed an SLX, you'd add 100g, but you'd save $200, which could buy you a nice OTPHJ or 10.
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I didn't know there was an 1080 level, and by the looks of it, it has the extensive machining as well. Last time I was 10speed cassette shopping I was only looking at 1030 and 1050 and it was going on my CX/city/do everything bike so I didn't care about weight. While I really enjoyed the range and smooth shifting of XX1 that was on a demo bike I rode. I'll be riding my 30t 11-36 X.9 drivetrain for the foreseeable future. Heavy cassettes for the time being, if I was going to drop the coin to get the 1080 I'd rather just spend a little extra and upgrade to XO1.
 
Sandwich

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I think the 11 speed stuff is awesome, but there are a few things I would change. The expert version shifted fine but it didn't seem that much different than 10, to be honest. Actually the 10s setup on my comp seemed smoother than the 11, but that's not really a fair comparo. I'd like to see a slightly tighter 40-11, or even 42-11 for use with standard cassettes. I think that would allow people to piece-meal their upgrade instead of having to buy new everything all at once. To be honest though, I think Shimano dragging their feet on 11s has allowed Sram to slow the arrival of the lower-end 11s stuff, and by the time the heat is on, single ring 10s setups will be pretty well figured out. There's what, 5 people making 40 or 42t rings for 10s cassettes? That's not bad...

I know the wheels on the new bike are not compatible with the XD driver, so that would facilitate a complete overhaul of so many components...
 
Sandwich

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StiHacka said:
Congrats, nice ride! Aren't you concerned about dropping chain off the front double when at Highland / DH trails?
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Not really, it comes with a bash and a lower roller/two ring guide. Pretty slick setup! Eventually I may go 1x 10 with a narrow wide.

I saw that 650b bike, I can't believe it....but, it doesn't change what I wanted, which is pretty darn close to the e29.
 
Sandwich

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holy **** this thing is sweet...great ride, even all XC like. Great riding position too, not too bad to try and climb things. I thought it would be much worse with the 50mm keeping my weight back.
 
jackalope

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Real or imagined benefits aside, I wonder how much revenue they lost by taking this long to offer 26 Plus wheels? Obviously depends on when you start the clock, but I bet it was a substantial sum. Maybe they will reduce the number of hyper aggressive lawyers they have on retainer.
 
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Sandwich

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Probably not much. The 650b circle jerk is just getting rolling. All the DH bikes this year are going to switch over to 650b, all benefits will be negated, all other bikes will switch over to 650b, so specialized is really right on time. To be honest, I can't really believe that there's this much demand for ****ty bikes with slightly larger wheels crammed in without much consideration to geometry...but at the end of the day, it's about selling bikes, and no matter how good the enderpo29 might be, buyers just want 650bland.

Not to say there aren't some great 650b bikes out there, but swapping dropouts and extending the chainstays by half an inch really isn't a ground-up approach like the e29 was, and I'm kind of amazed that Spec still hasn't brought short chainstayed niners to the rest of their lineup before adding slightly larger wheels. I honestly think there is a reason that the e29 has gotten practically zero negative reviews...
 
dan-o

dan-o

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Sandwich said:
I honestly think there is a reason that the e29 has gotten practically zero negative reviews...
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Deep pocketed marketing budgets are a hell of a drug.
I haven't read a truly negative review in years; everything is regurgitated ad copy washed down with free beer at an exotic location media event.
 
CBJ

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dan-o said:
Deep pocketed marketing budgets are a hell of a drug.
I haven't read a truly negative review in years; everything is regurgitated ad copy washed down with free beer at an exotic location media event.
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If think in general are getting good but I think there was a lot of valid complaints in the bible of bike test series. That said I don't read many review.

Maybe people who ride a lot of bikes and review them are not as unhappy as the average Ridemonkey reviewer :-)
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

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dan-o said:
Deep pocketed marketing budgets are a hell of a drug.
I haven't read a truly negative review in years; everything is regurgitated ad copy washed down with free beer at an exotic location media event.
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Sure, but I'd argue that, aside from specialized, DW supported bikes have some of the largest hype machines behind them, and the devinci troy has been getting almost universally panned. PB, for the most part, has been doing some relatively good, impartial reviews. You have to cut deep through the fluff to hit the accurate bits, but it's there, sometimes.

Still, for vital, PB, bike mag, VT mtb, NSMB, bikerumor, and probably a few that I missed to have overwhelmingly positive input on the bike, I feel that's hard to argue with. Especially vital, which has simultaneously panned the troy and a few other bikes while raving about the durpo. Sometimes, good bikes are just good.
 
jackalope

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Sandwich said:
Probably not much. The 650b circle jerk is just getting rolling. All the DH bikes this year are going to switch over to 650b, all benefits will be negated, all other bikes will switch over to 650b, so specialized is really right on time. To be honest, I can't really believe that there's this much demand for ****ty bikes with slightly larger wheels crammed in without much consideration to geometry...but at the end of the day, it's about selling bikes, and no matter how good the enderpo29 might be, buyers just want 650bland.

N
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Admittedly knowing less than nothing about actual model sales, I just wonder if they lost a goodly chunk of potential Stumpy/Camber/Enduro sales due to how seemingly fast and complete the 650 demand craze came about. I mean Yeti quite making one of the most highly regarded bikes out there (SB66) practically overnight due to what I am led to believe was near non-existent demand. They were literally forced into bringing the SB75 to market (perhaps even before they would've preferred) despite having a fantastic 26" model. Likewise, SCB had a video out awhile back, and they talked about moving to 650, and I got the sense they didn't really understand or maybe even agree with the sudden e-hand job 650s were getting, but like you said, they needed to sell bikes. Maybe waiting this long didn't really hurt the big S, but I still think SCB, Intense, Giant and others were privately stoked that they stubbornly left their head in the sand for several years.
 
Beast

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dan-o said:
I haven't read a truly negative review in years; everything is regurgitated ad copy washed down with free beer at an exotic location media event.
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Read up:

http://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Bikes,3/Ibis/Mojo-SL-R,11762
http://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Bikes,3/BMC/TrailFox-TF02,11756
http://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Bikes,3/Diamondback/Sortie-3,3000
http://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Bikes,3/Scott/Genius-720,11752
http://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Tires,48/Kenda/Nevegal-X-Pro,13224
http://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Bikes,3/GT/Sensor-Carbon-Pro,12927

Advertiser or not we do our damnedest to remain impartial, even if the beer tastes good.
 
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