Quantcast

Formula R0 or Shimano Sant m820 ?

S

soft-compound

Monkey
Dec 29, 2012
109
1
Decided to get rid of my old hope mono 6ti brakes and want something a bit more modern
I was looking at the Formula R0 and the new saint m820
But i have heard lever problems with the old saints so people put on XTR trial levers but seems the new m820 already have this lever.
And can get these new pretty cheap.

Any thoughts as i have never used formula or shimano to be honest and will be going on a DH bike with a 220lb rider
 
Nick

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,027
14,639
where the trails are
I've owned The Ones, M810s and M820s.

I think Formula brakes fvcking rule, but they're finicky and the bleed process is a PITA. Also, $$$$$$.

My rear M820 caliper totally failed the second run and replaced under warranty. They've been awesome since then. I have none of the bleed or lever problems I've read other's are having.

Buy the Saints. You'll be happy.
 
S

soft-compound

Monkey
Dec 29, 2012
109
1
Hmmmmm are the R1 brakes basically newer version of the one?
Well at the momment you can get the saints brand new for £115.00 per brake without mounts and rotors
And a guy on singletrack world is selling a new set of polished R0 for £200.00 no mounts or rotors

How is mineral oil compared to dot?
I hate messing around with dot fluid.
 
Samoto

Samoto

Guest
Dec 16, 2013
402
0
Zee brakes are cheap so it is worth to try out. Ive been runing M810 and later I replaced with Zee levers. Perfect!
 
G

gretch

Chimp
Feb 15, 2013
21
0
Nelson, B.C.
I would go with the Formula R0s... Having used all the major DH brakes on the market the R0s are the best IMO. Saint or Zee would be my second choice.
 
Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
I too would get the R0s.
The M820s are a bit hit and miss, and if you care about weight, the Formulas are significantly lighter (~100g lighter over both ends, in calipers and levers). If you don't need huge power, I'd recommend the T1, as it's plenty powerful and will save a bit of money and weight. I also think it's potentially a little more reliable due to the lower leverage, and greater number of product cycles - Formula make small improvements each generation. I wouldn't go as low as the R1 for a 220lb DH rider, they have a smaller caliper piston and are more of an AM brake. In order of power R0 > T1 > R1.

The bleed process is dead simple and the brakes should rarely require bleeding, 2011 and onwards. I also found it cleaner than Shimano as you can attach syringes directly. I think most negative opinions on Formulas are on brakes 2010 or older. You can also buy small parts individually (unlike Shimano) which is fairly handy if you plan to own them for a long time.

There is one thing Shimano does better however, and it's that they allow the lever reach (initial position) to be set closer to the bar. For anyone with smaller hands or shorter fingers, this can be a deal breaker for Formula. You can make simple modifications to fix this but not everyone wants to (understandably) - in which case I'd go with the Shimano. It's best to try them yourself if this is a concern.
 
S

soft-compound

Monkey
Dec 29, 2012
109
1
Udi said:
I too would get the R0s.
The M820s are a bit hit and miss, and if you care about weight, the Formulas are significantly lighter (~100g lighter over both ends, in calipers and levers). If you don't need huge power, I'd recommend the T1, as it's plenty powerful and will save a bit of money and weight. I also think it's potentially a little more reliable due to the lower leverage, and greater number of product cycles - Formula make small improvements each generation. I wouldn't go as low as the R1 for a 220lb DH rider, they have a smaller caliper piston and are more of an AM brake. In order of power R0 > T1 > R1.

The bleed process is dead simple and the brakes should rarely require bleeding, 2011 and onwards. I also found it cleaner than Shimano as you can attach syringes directly. I think most negative opinions on Formulas are on brakes 2010 or older. You can also buy small parts individually (unlike Shimano) which is fairly handy if you plan to own them for a long time.

There is one thing Shimano does better however, and it's that they allow the lever reach (initial position) to be set closer to the bar. For anyone with smaller hands or shorter fingers, this can be a deal breaker for Formula. You can make simple modifications to fix this but not everyone wants to (understandably) - in which case I'd go with the Shimano. It's best to try them yourself if this is a concern.
Click to expand...

Weight is no issue as im used to a 64lb bike.
So is there another brake you would recomend other than the ones mentined?
 
Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
I think you've narrowed it down to the best options already.
Anywhere with real steep mountains I've noticed most people will be on The One (now T1) or Saint (M810, M820). The R0 is a bit new still but that is the logical progression from the T1. I know the first gen had a few bugs, but they're in their 2nd or 3rd gen now. BuckoW on here would be able to comment if you can get in touch with him as he is well versed in their current product.

I personally have found the current Formula products more reliable than the current Shimano, and still own a few sets of both. Others may have different experiences however, and as I said the Formulas do have a longer reach (which I personally don't like and have modified) so it's worth checking if they suit you / your hands before making a decision.
 
gnarbar

gnarbar

Monkey
Oct 22, 2011
136
3
R0 brake power is monstrous, yet well modulated offering good brake control - almost limitless one finger braking.
 
6thElement

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
15,940
13,189
What are the RO's like for coping with fade on long excessively braked runs? I like the sound of them versus the reported issues with Saints, but the Saints look like they'd cope better with my excessive braking.
 
E

EVIL JN

Monkey
Jul 24, 2009
491
24
6thElement said:
What are the RO's like for coping with fade on long excessively braked runs? I like the sound of them versus the reported issues with Saints, but the Saints look like they'd cope better with my excessive braking.
Click to expand...
Excellent, no real fade on 12 min non stop runs (close to 3000 vert feet). Lever feels pretty much the same the entire run, no weird pumping etc.


Its me in the back on RO's, weighing in at around 200lbs on 180 rotors. By now they have done close to 90 days in this bike park since their last bleed and they still feel almost as new

 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,367
1,605
Warsaw :/
How is R0's lever durability for someone who has a stupid habbit of stoping on trees?
 
no skid marks

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
I'm running the new R1 Racing with The One or T1 front caliper on my DH and AM,Enduro whatever bike. Been great so far. Lever pivot is closer to bar like Shimanno and Avid unlike all the other Formulas. Not sure I prefer or notice it though(still have The Ones on other bikes. I think Specialized are running R1 Racing Levers with RO or T1 calipers.
If you want to save weight, get the Formulas, if you don't care or want cheaper, get the Saints(I'd pick new Codes over Saints). All good brakes.
 
Last edited:
6thElement

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
15,940
13,189
After the original Codes I'm hesitant to try anything else bearing the same name.

With large hands I like the bite point to come very quick in the throw and don't want too much lever travel.
 
ocelot

ocelot

Monkey
Mar 8, 2009
395
10
Canadastan
I have a set of RX0, which are RX levers with R0 calipers. They're from before Formula decided to give their calipers more rotor clearance. That being said, rotor clearance on mine is stupid tight. I'm currently running Hayes v8 rotors and I can't get them to stop rubbing. Yes, I've tried straightening them but there's only that much you can do before they warp again. I'm looking at getting a new set of rotors. The Hayes one works fine, but I'd like to try something else. Do any of you know which rotors besides Formula give some decent clearance?
 
frorider

frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
971
20
cali
Hmm, a bike I built up for a friend has RX levers/calipers and Hayes v8 rotors and the clearance seemed fine & he's been having no issues w/ rubbing. All my Formula setups are using Formula rotors -- for a while there I was buying them from France w/ adapters included for $35 or so.
 
Samoto

Samoto

Guest
Dec 16, 2013
402
0
anybody experimented with size of rotor in rear? lets say difference between 203, 180 and 160mm? I wondered if I could go for smaller rotor without losing much power. Just now I have a bit skew rotor after a small crash (M810).
 
M

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
as a 200lb'er, can't say i, always run 200mm rotors on dh bikes and 180's on trail bikes, but the math is easy.

kinetic energy ("braking power") is directly proportional to angular momentum & radius, so its a simple division between rotor sizes, not a square law.

this means a 200mm rotor has 10% more stopping power than a 180mm and 20% more stopping power than a 160mm rotor.

the front brake carries ~70% of the bike's overall stopping power, however, so the total stopping power of the bike is 3% less and 6% less respectively for smaller rotors.

so the question is, which do you care about: the overall ability to stop (minimal change), or the ability to rear wheel steer (more significant change)
 
Last edited:
ocelot

ocelot

Monkey
Mar 8, 2009
395
10
Canadastan
frorider said:
Hmm, a bike I built up for a friend has RX levers/calipers and Hayes v8 rotors and the clearance seemed fine & he's been having no issues w/ rubbing. All my Formula setups are using Formula rotors -- for a while there I was buying them from France w/ adapters included for $35 or so.
Click to expand...
I have about 1-1.5mm of clearance on each side. My rotors are not new at all, so they are somewhat wavy. It's not rubbing that badly, but it drives me crazy sometimes. Like I said, I don't fault the Hayes rotors at all and I really think a brand new and true rotor will fix my issue temporarily. Where were you getting the Formula rotors from?
 
Last edited:
C

CraigS

Monkey
Oct 13, 2012
123
11
upstate ny (518)
Can't comment on Saints as I have never owned a set but they have a large following.
I currently switched from The Ones to RO's and absolutely love them. As someone mentioned earlier........
they are monsters.
Take your time with setup and bleeding and you will not be disappointed.
 
frorider

frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
971
20
cali
ocelot said:
I have about 1-1.5mm of clearance on each side. My rotors are not new at all, so they are somewhat wavy. It's not rubbing that badly, but it drives me crazy sometimes. Like I said, I don't fault the Hayes rotors at all and I really think a brand new and true rotor will fix my issue temporarily. Where were you getting the Formula rotors from?
Click to expand...
I was gettign formula brakesets and parts super cheap from go1.fr (I think that was the url) but I'm not sure they are in business still. cyclesportsUK has free shipping on these parts and includes the adapter of your choice...i think it's $50 for rotor + adapter.

Another deal to look out for is take-off OEM RXO brakes. go-ride.com has the complete set (f/r, adapters and rotors) for $400 I think. I have the 2013 RXOs on my 7 inch truax/totem and for mammoth mtn they've been great (paid $200 for my set). I have the ROs on my DHR and the RXOs are fairly comparable..maybe slightly less bite, but still equal to Saint.
 
HardtailHack

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,721
5,604
I have been looking at Formulas too but then I will have all three types of brake fluids which would suck. I am going to try DOT4 in some old Maguras and Hopes to see what happens, it should work in the Hope no probs and my neighbor switched his RC car with Magura brakes from mineral to silicone with no probs, so.....

Mr Udi, if you mod the Formulas can you get the lever really close to the bar with the brakes fully applied? I like them pretty much touching the grip, my Magura MT is probably 1"+ off the grip and it sucks!
 
frorider

frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
971
20
cali
Samoto said:
anybody experimented with size of rotor in rear? lets say difference between 203, 180 and 160mm? I wondered if I could go for smaller rotor without losing much power. Just now I have a bit skew rotor after a small crash (M810).
Click to expand...
I weigh 205-210 lbs geared up, run 203f/180r on my ROs on the DHR and 203/180 RXOs on my Truax/Totem. Both bikes have no issues on long descents at Mammoth etc. Still riding on the factory bleed on both sets.
 
Samoto

Samoto

Guest
Dec 16, 2013
402
0
Good to hear..

I've been running both dh and enduro on 203 mm discs in front and rear. I never missed power coming from dual piston calipers. Another reason for that setup is that it's simpler to stock same size of rotors or swap rotors if the front rotor get bent and I have no spare parts.

Now I should try 160 mm in rear and maybe it is enough for Zee/Saint type of caliper to provide braking? It would be different with single piston caliper.

Assuming to Olsson calculation, I miss only 6% if I switch from 203 to 160 for gravity based applications.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom