thanks captain obvious
Is DH racing dying?
- Thread starter slyfink
- Start date
Jeez you two, stop trying to out e-chest thump each other.
I definitely see the allure of finding a less risky sport to play with my 8mo old and house and car payments. Of course, I still prefer riding days over racing days, for all the reasons mentioned.
I definitely see the allure of finding a less risky sport to play with my 8mo old and house and car payments. Of course, I still prefer riding days over racing days, for all the reasons mentioned.
^^^Hence this now being the DH & Freeride section of teh monkey!
Not really sure sure what is going on with yeti... I saw Richie Rude on a what appeared to be a non-production model yesterday at Mountain Creek. It appeared to be similar, but was raw and looked awesome. Wish I had my phone on me to snap a picture.
its easy... pretty much everyone that "mountain bikes" owns a trail bike. "enduro" is just racing trail bikes. that means its really easy to get regular old "mountain bikers" to increase their involvement in the sport (ie into a race here or there, pay attention to race results, watch videos, etc). \
additionally these races could be pretty fun be on a 900' hill 20 minutes from saint louis or whatever. doesn't need a 3000' drop mountain 4 hours from an airport in the middle of nowhere.
the nice thing is that DH is way more sexy, so as enduro/normal trail bike riding re-focuses, DH will only see a spike of involvement a few years down the line.
team is focusing on enduro for this season. they never said anything about completely giving up dh.
were you really surprised to see that reigning dh jr world champ out on a dh bike?
Come to think of it after riding a newer gen enduro bike part of the shift comes from the fact that for the speeds more amateur riders are going enduro bike is enough. A dh bike may be faster but sometimes less fun since at lower speeds it feels slow. I can't imagine not riding my dh bike even though I really want a smaller bike but it's just a better choice for many people.
Thanks for clearing up my recent past and personal memories for me
We were riding 3k dh bikes, sleeping in tents and vans, cooking on grills and spending maybe 200 bucks a weekend on travel, registration and food.
And we liked it!!!
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emphasis added. that was the point I was trying to make. that's my hope.
How about adding Enduro? Moderators?
and beer!Thanks for clearing up my recent past and personal memories for me
We were riding 3k dh bikes, sleeping in tents and vans, cooking on grills and spending maybe 200 bucks a weekend on travel, registration and food.
And we liked it!!!
Okay 300 bucks.
How about adding Enduro? Moderators?
Not sure if it was mentioned but Colorado has no DH race series anymore. If that is any indication on what to expect. Maybe we have more roadie/xc weenies but pretty much the old Mountain States Cup turned into the Big Mountain Enduro series. Mostly these races take place where we used to race DH no less (and they've even raced in Moab and Durango which is pretty amazing). So good stuff, but not DH anymore. That's for sure.
As for me, I will resist selling my DH bike and buying a wagon wheeeeeler as long as possible. DH fo life!
As for me, I will resist selling my DH bike and buying a wagon wheeeeeler as long as possible. DH fo life!
A couple observations;
1) I find it hard to read too deeply into an op-ed piece that doesn't cite any tangible data. My anecdotal evidence of the state of DH being that I'm in the Northeast US certainly runs counter to the author's point, but I'm aware enough to know that that may not mean anything. To Norbars' comments the article left me scratching my head and I too felt it may as well could have been a blank page.
2) With regard to some other comments about racers getting older, the costs associated with riding, and the younger millennial's carrying more debt. The market for performance recreational bikes and parts is very saturated and the nature of the beast of most businesses that operate in these markets is to try to differentiate themselves through marketing.
There really isn't any revolutionary technology coming out of the cycling industry. And the way most of these companies operate is a little bit like a dog chasing it's own tail. Case in point, Ska Todd's comments about economic growth as the cause of hurting the growth of a generation of potential riders. Of course this is going to happen if a business' short term focus is to sustain and be profitable in a sea of hundreds or thousands just like yourself. There is overhead and salaries to pay off, the end product (a bike) is wildly inefficient in terms of cost for building something at the volumes that most companies currently do, and your competitors (companies X, Y, Z, and so on) new annual product release for next year have the revolutionary super wheels, and that brand of brakes that don't suck, and 10mm wider bars, etc.....
This cycle (pun intended) happens every year for these companies. Again, the nature of the beast is to sustain so in order to do so companies rely a bevy of people with titles like product manager, head of marketing, regional sales manager, etc... that focus on the low hanging fruit like how to continue to create sales and leads. Since riders whom are ~35+ years old are currently the most economically stable and their needs have changed as they've aged it's no wonder that people on the marketing side of the business are going to nudge decisions in a way to continue to sell ~$5k+ bikes.
Obviously DH and DH racing isn't dying, that's just a stupid statement to claim. As for Enduro, the race format may be relatively new, but it's just good old mountain biking delivered with a different spin from the same people that need to re-spin their product lines every year to remain relevant.
I don't think either DH or mountain biking (enduro, trail, all mountain, overmountain, etc) are unhealthy. I do however, feel that in order to foster this sport/activity and make it more robust and accessible it would help if that business side of things changed. The problem with our sport and what hurts our racing is the barrier to entry and a culture that needs to endure a massive paradigm shift in how it operates. A good place to start would be if manufacturers produced more of a turnkey product, it also probably wouldn't hurt if a number of 'companies' died off. Consolidating product lines and having 5 year product life cycles would also be useful for amortization purposes. I'm hopeful but this is all probably a pipe dream. I mean, how could a bike which 90% of all the parts on it were made under one roof compete with one with Brand X frame, Brand Y drivetrain, Brand Z suspension, seatpost, saddle....
1) I find it hard to read too deeply into an op-ed piece that doesn't cite any tangible data. My anecdotal evidence of the state of DH being that I'm in the Northeast US certainly runs counter to the author's point, but I'm aware enough to know that that may not mean anything. To Norbars' comments the article left me scratching my head and I too felt it may as well could have been a blank page.
2) With regard to some other comments about racers getting older, the costs associated with riding, and the younger millennial's carrying more debt. The market for performance recreational bikes and parts is very saturated and the nature of the beast of most businesses that operate in these markets is to try to differentiate themselves through marketing.
There really isn't any revolutionary technology coming out of the cycling industry. And the way most of these companies operate is a little bit like a dog chasing it's own tail. Case in point, Ska Todd's comments about economic growth as the cause of hurting the growth of a generation of potential riders. Of course this is going to happen if a business' short term focus is to sustain and be profitable in a sea of hundreds or thousands just like yourself. There is overhead and salaries to pay off, the end product (a bike) is wildly inefficient in terms of cost for building something at the volumes that most companies currently do, and your competitors (companies X, Y, Z, and so on) new annual product release for next year have the revolutionary super wheels, and that brand of brakes that don't suck, and 10mm wider bars, etc.....
This cycle (pun intended) happens every year for these companies. Again, the nature of the beast is to sustain so in order to do so companies rely a bevy of people with titles like product manager, head of marketing, regional sales manager, etc... that focus on the low hanging fruit like how to continue to create sales and leads. Since riders whom are ~35+ years old are currently the most economically stable and their needs have changed as they've aged it's no wonder that people on the marketing side of the business are going to nudge decisions in a way to continue to sell ~$5k+ bikes.
Obviously DH and DH racing isn't dying, that's just a stupid statement to claim. As for Enduro, the race format may be relatively new, but it's just good old mountain biking delivered with a different spin from the same people that need to re-spin their product lines every year to remain relevant.
I don't think either DH or mountain biking (enduro, trail, all mountain, overmountain, etc) are unhealthy. I do however, feel that in order to foster this sport/activity and make it more robust and accessible it would help if that business side of things changed. The problem with our sport and what hurts our racing is the barrier to entry and a culture that needs to endure a massive paradigm shift in how it operates. A good place to start would be if manufacturers produced more of a turnkey product, it also probably wouldn't hurt if a number of 'companies' died off. Consolidating product lines and having 5 year product life cycles would also be useful for amortization purposes. I'm hopeful but this is all probably a pipe dream. I mean, how could a bike which 90% of all the parts on it were made under one roof compete with one with Brand X frame, Brand Y drivetrain, Brand Z suspension, seatpost, saddle....
Geographically speaking, i feel the northeast is starting to "decline" in racing turnouts.
At the first pro GRT this year there was a pro field deeper than the average turnout for a NE race. (and the riding level is much higher)
This weekend, the First GES AND ESC were combined together in a half urban DH race. That has gotten alot of riders over its lifetime. I believe the count this year was 164 for the first race in TWO different race series.
I skipped and many of my friends skipped, only due to economic factors.
*edit*
One more thing is that the purses in pro and the prizes in the lower CATs are decreasing while entry stays the same or grows. Hard to swallow a 100 entry fee for the chance at winning 250. (spending more than that difference in the gas/hotel) I can STRAVA for free...
At the first pro GRT this year there was a pro field deeper than the average turnout for a NE race. (and the riding level is much higher)
This weekend, the First GES AND ESC were combined together in a half urban DH race. That has gotten alot of riders over its lifetime. I believe the count this year was 164 for the first race in TWO different race series.
I skipped and many of my friends skipped, only due to economic factors.
*edit*
One more thing is that the purses in pro and the prizes in the lower CATs are decreasing while entry stays the same or grows. Hard to swallow a 100 entry fee for the chance at winning 250. (spending more than that difference in the gas/hotel) I can STRAVA for free...
Mountain biking, DH included, took a huge hit between 1998 and 2000. The number of racers attending continued to go up, but the money was leaving the sport. The UCI was never able to find a sponsor that would fund the sport at the level that Grundig did. For the US, compared to what we had, we have very little. We had the NORBA series which was second only to the WCs. We also had at least two WCs every year in the states.
Saying DH is dead or dying is like saying punk is dying. It won't die, or ever go away, but it may not reach the heights it once had (nor be able to support the number of pro riders it once did). Personally I hate the way the XC scene has transitioned. We went from racing 30 mile point to point races to racing for an hour in a circle. It's become a less exciting, and less technical, version of cyclocross. The first XC races were 50 miles and now people act appalled if they have to race for two hours.
Saying DH is dead or dying is like saying punk is dying. It won't die, or ever go away, but it may not reach the heights it once had (nor be able to support the number of pro riders it once did). Personally I hate the way the XC scene has transitioned. We went from racing 30 mile point to point races to racing for an hour in a circle. It's become a less exciting, and less technical, version of cyclocross. The first XC races were 50 miles and now people act appalled if they have to race for two hours.
dammit must spread repsorry... I can't help myself... but...
your mom turned off the tap?!?!
Too much shippingsorry... I can't help myself... but...
your mom turned off the tap?!?!
so she's not paying for gas?
No-do you have any idea how much gas that stolen fox trailer costs me?