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Crisp Disc Brake, a slightly different take on the caliper, warning, Kickstarter Insi

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,749
5,643
Just spotted this on a local forum, The Crisp Brake as a simple brake caliper that uses a single slave cylinder and some pivots to get the job done.

It will no doubt get flamed like crazy but it could work well in my opinion-

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/202507570/crisp-brake



New disk brake caliper design, SAFER, simpler, lighter, lower maintenance, looks cool. Patent Pending.

The Product

Crisp Brake is a new and a much better brake than everything that is on the market right now. It is stronger, lighter, easier to use, look after and install.

Crisp Brake MTB uses mineral oil which is known to be easier to use, bleed, and does not corrode your paintwork.

Crisp Brake MTB uses the post mount standard, and bolts straight on using your existing disk.

Crisp Brake is suitable for all disk sizes from 160mm and up.

Manufactured in Perth, Western Australia you are getting a slight cost increase but the quality of our product can be controlled throughout the entire process.

Set and forget reliability

What you get

1x Crisp Brake MTB calliper
2x Crisp Brake MTB specific sintered pads
1x Lever and 1500mm of hose
2x M6 mounting screws
1x Instructions
Mineral Oil filled ready to ride

How it works

The Crisp Brake concept is very simple.
Instead of pushing pads from each side of the disk with two separate slave cylinders, we use a single slave cylinder pushing two levers apart that pivot against each other and then squeeze the pads against the disk.
Crisp Brake MTB conceptCrisp Brake MTB concept







Problems with existing Designs

Brake fade, sticky pistons, brake fluid boil, scored pistons, uneven brake wear, leaking seals, these are all issues that you may have experienced and they reduce the overall safety of a fully functional braking system.

Benefits and how they effect you

Reduced Brake Fade.
Improved heat dissipation as the calliper is not enclosing the pads, also allowing dissipation fins to be incorporated onto the back of the pads which enhances the cooling effects.

Reliability and Durability.
There is no reason why Crisp Brake would not be as reliable/durable as the best on the market.

One Slave Cylinder.
Keeps things simpler, less seals, easier to bleed, even pad pressure on both sides

Isolate Hydraulic System.
The hydraulics do not need to be as tolerable of heat and dust, reducing cost on ceramic pistons, special seals and so forth.

Simpler Shaping.
Reducing manufacturing costs as all the shaping is simple and easier to machine/forge.

Maintenance.
Pads are held in by a simple split pin, as the pads are not surrounded by the calliper access is even easier.

Performance.
The pad size is not restricted by the size of the calliper and can be made a lot bigger if required.

Weight.
Our current early CAD model is under 110 grams

Full Floating Caliper, Self Aligning.
As a full floating system, installation is very easy (no alignment issues at all) and even with a very bent rotor it would not be the end of your ride.

Crisp Brake is a better brake and that makes it a safer brake.

Patent Pending

Crisp Brake is Patent pending, this means we have the full right to take advantage of this technology, we also have to option to licence this out to existing manufacturers. This technology is applicable to not just bikes but motorcycles, cars and trucks.

This is the first major improvement in disk brake technology in over 60 years in the cycling, motorcycling and automotive industries.

Applicable for the automative industry

As the slave cylinder can be swung around the pivot point to different locations we can use the same technology in the automative industry as it can clear the wheel, we believe we can keep within 30mm from the outside of the disk.
Side mount conceptSide mount concept

Production Plan
1. Come up with idea (complete Jan 2014)
2. Build Early attempts at prototype (complete March)
3. Hire Engineer to computer simulate ideas of early prototype to ensure strength and safety factor (complete April)
4. File Provisional Patent (complete April)
5. Fabricate fully functional prototype (completed April 29th)
6. Application to Kickstarter Project Launch (completed May 1st)
7. Develop Promo Video (estimate 8th May)
8. Launch Kickstarter Campaign (estimate 8th May)
9. Market, Manage and Promote Kickstarter Campaign until closing date. (estimate June 2014)
10. Receive Funds (estimate June)
11. Employ Product Development team (estimate June)
12. Fabricate Early CNCed prototype run of 10 Brake systems (estimate July)
13. Test, Modify and Test until we are happy with product (estimate August and September)
14. Complete first production run of 1000 Brake Systems and distribute to Kickstarter Backers. (estimate October)
15. Receive Feedback, modify to suit. (estimate November and December)
16. Continue Production. (estimate 2015)
17. Design Models for the Automotive Industry (estimate 2015)
18. Continue Producing and Developing (estimate 2015)

Invention story from the Inventor, Allan Crisp

As a guy who is constantly looking at doing different and weird things I came up with this idea while i was day dreaming riding to work one morning. Wondering why the brakes on my bike are so compact and don't take advantage of all that space that is around them. What would I do if I was to design them myself?... Well I came up with Crisp Brake, I then got pretty excited, researched everything I could and found a similar design is used on trains (quite recently) and has also been used on cranes and other industrial purposes.
This got me even more exited as it proved my idea worked and there were no patents to use a similar concept in the cycling, motorcycle and automotive industries.
Now I went to the Patent Attorney and got the ball rolling with him whilst I worked on a prototype, I then quickly realised how tricky it was to get all the forces and loads the be strong enough to handle what was being asked.
I then contracted some help, Engineer Michael Reeves to help with the maths, simulations and designing the first production model.
Completing my first prototype calliper was a massive achievement, I was super stoked. I got it running perfectly the Friday afternoon before I headed down to Pemberton with some mates to compete in the WAGE MTB Enduro race round two. Racing my rigid single speed bike I was never aiming too high but I managed a 15th place in open mens putting the calliper through a massive workout. I was thrilled it never let me down and worked flawlessly the entire weekend.
Now with the Patent Pending application filed, a awesome functioning prototype, CAD production model, and a Kickstarter Project launched.... I am in your hands :) Thank you.

CAD model images
CAD model sideCAD model side
CAD model inlineCAD model inline

Prototype photos
Working PrototypeWorking Prototype

Some Development Photos.
Inline vew, during prototype fabricationInline vew, during prototype fabrication
Side View, during prototype constructionSide View, during prototype construction
First cable operated disk levered brakeFirst cable operated disk levered brake

Early Sketches
Early brake sketch v2Early brake sketch v2
Early brake sketchEarly brake sketch
Risks and challenges Learn about accountability on Kickstarter

Cost/Money, If we underestimate costs of local manufacturing in original run of product. We have quoted local machining and estimated costs for anodising, brake lines, pads and so forth giving us confidence but without the experience in this area we can only find out once it is done.
Paying for Engineering/Product Development (can be as high as the sky, based upon management). With 6 Years directing Crisp Engineering, Inventor Allan Crisp is very confident in his ability and depth of experiences to run this project without wasting time and money.

FAQ


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/202507570/crisp-brake
 
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no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
Pads on brake in vid look like they will wear poorly. Needs lil canti levers like the XT V brakes had(maybe it was XTR. to make parallel pad contact.
Edit:-Just looked at the pics in the writing. Looks like pads are hinged, that might solve it.
 
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Wetbed0

Chimp
Dec 17, 2013
73
2
Colorado
All of their improvements are the reasons we use two pistons......

And you'll have fade sooner with less metal to soak up the heat....

There's a lot they missed with that one...

:confused:
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,749
5,643
Now you pistons that are pretty much an insulator, they try to keep from getting to the fluid so most of the heat stays in the pads/caliper. With metal to metal contact it should be easier to shed heat, and would be pretty easy to to design extra cooling in to it.

It does look pretty agricultural and I can't see it making the goal but I still think it has some promise.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,506
19,516
Canaderp
I think this is something that would be decent for a road/path type bike.

But on a mountain bike, something would probably break while on the trails I ride. There looks to be a lot of opportunity for sticks, twigs and random crud to get stuck in there. I've lost count of how many times a twig has been kicked up into my chain ring, cassette, derailleur, lodged between the wheel and fork etc etc. Modern brakes are so much better in this regard, I think. Everything is internal on the caliper, there is nothing to break off besides the caliper itself and the brake line.
 

troy

Turbo Monkey
Dec 3, 2008
1,008
742
Cool idea, but not for offroad. Non sealed piston + bushing/small ball bearing as a pivot point + mud sounds like a good recipe for disaster.

1 more thing - those tiny brake pad/piston axles are kinda scary too.
 
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TrumbullHucker

trumbullruxer
Aug 29, 2005
2,284
719
shimzbury, ct
i like the idea; keeping the heat away from the brake lines/ boiling brake fluid is good
but the prototype looks pretty haggard.. atleast have the parts CNC'd instead of welded bits
 
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Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,077
5,995
borcester rhymes
like a micro u-brake.

i'd be impressed if it worked as well as a decent two piston brake. there is potential, especially with the arms, to absorb extra heat...but there's also a huge potential for flex and loss of power.

Also...100k to get this project started? Holy ****. Why doesn't anybody want 5 or 6 grand to build a few prototypes anymore? Why is kickstarter turning into "pipedreamstarter".
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,972
24,527
media blackout
like a micro u-brake.

i'd be impressed if it worked as well as a decent two piston brake. there is potential, especially with the arms, to absorb extra heat...but there's also a huge potential for flex and loss of power.

Also...100k to get this project started? Holy ****. Why doesn't anybody want 5 or 6 grand to build a few prototypes anymore? Why is kickstarter turning into "pipedreamstarter".
entitled hipsters/millenials without trust funds?
 

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
I'm sorry, but his prototypes look like crap for the kind of money he is asking for. You could easily build some awesome 6061 CNC'd version for less that 1/10 of that. I think that would go over way better than something that looks like it was welded by a blind chimp.
 
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buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
Its not a new idea. I've got a huge pneumatic version sitting on my desk.
I do like the idea of moving the piston away from the pads. Pretty much solves the hot fluid issue.

And the protos look pretty good imo. And I do this for a living. Tig welded with the tools on hand. Obviously no access to CNC but CNC proto work is very expensive.
 

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
There are plenty of garage machinists that would knock most of that out for reasonable costs. He just needs to ask around. I don't think it's horrible, but it definitely doesn't justify asking for 100K.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,995
9,657
AK
Additionally, the arms/metal will flex. Hydraulic power is absolutely impressive, Magura HS22s will bow out seatsays and fork lowers like they are made of rubber, beefy block-calipers keep this to a minimum.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,972
24,527
media blackout
Additionally, the arms/metal will flex. Hydraulic power is absolutely impressive, Magura HS22s will bow out seatsays and fork lowers like they are made of rubber, beefy block-calipers keep this to a minimum.
agreed on the maggie's.

you would need forged armed on this or super thick machined ones or something to prevent flex.
 

Wetbed0

Chimp
Dec 17, 2013
73
2
Colorado
I still feel like all of the heat will go into the pads and rotors, and they'll glaze over
No more brakes

Or just tons of warped rotors.

You'll create just as much heat with less mass to soak it up. Things will likely fail.
 
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toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,512
4,763
Australia
I still feel like all of the heat will go into the pads and rotors, and they'll glaze over
No more brakes

Or just tons of warped rotors.

You'll create just as much heat with less mass to soak it up. Things will likely fail.
Most likely less mass will make it run cooler, not warmer. Your brakes are cooled by air, and the less material to impede this cooling the better. Do ventilated and/or cross drilled brake rotors overheat faster than solid ones?
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,749
5,643
Additionally, the arms/metal will flex. Hydraulic power is absolutely impressive, Magura HS22s will bow out seatsays and fork lowers like they are made of rubber, beefy block-calipers keep this to a minimum.
That is a direct force on to a fairy straight tube, short lengths of welded and folded steel should be a bit different, it would however need a lot more pressure than a rim brake to be as effective.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,995
9,657
AK
Most likely less mass will make it run cooler, not warmer. Your brakes are cooled by air, and the less material to impede this cooling the better. Do ventilated and/or cross drilled brake rotors overheat faster than solid ones?
Actually, in many cases solid vented rotors are better than crossdrilled. Depends greatly on the application. Crossdrilled "looks" really cool though, right?

Traditionally, rotors heat up like mad during heavy braking, they are in contact with the brake pads. This is where we are trying to cool down the brakes, hence the shimano ice-tech pads and rotors. This is kind of the opposite of the icetech idea, although one could add finned/heatsink pads to it and put some more heat-sink type structures on the arms.

To make this functional, it's likely going to need to be reinforced to the extent where it's not practical compared to traditional brake designs, arms will need to be very thick to prevent flex, cooling fins will be helpful on the pads and arms, etc. Maybe for XC racers at some point, but brake designs are fairly simple and have shared a common design for a while. Advancements like carbon and ceramic rotors have come about, but if this was truly capable of the same rigidity and performance that traditional brakes have, I'd expect auto makers would have been all over this years or decades ago. Our sport usually trails everything else just due to the R&D budgets being so much smaller. Advancements are made in aerospace and other industries and eventually trickle down to bicycle engineers that play with some ideas. Maybe this is one of those, but again, I'm not very hopeful.