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New suspensiony things!

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
A 2-D linkage ain't no rocket surgury. Solidworks, some understanding of algebra and a few lines of Code in a software optimization package like Matlab or Mathematica and you have can have decent suspension design.

The real difference is probably determined by the ability/funds to have multiple prototype-test-refine cycles.
Exactly. I don't understand why people think creating a super complicated linkage will somehow make a better bike. It's a good idea to avoid patents and it will work as a marketing tool to dorks and dirt but basically you just have to think how the leverage changes and where the axle goes (and it's derivatives). Ffs it's not rocket science. Just know what characterisitcs you like, read a few books, ride a few bikes and improve on them.

Not that I don't like the bike. If the susp is designed well here I'm all up for it. I just don't like where people hype up suspension because it "Looks complicated".
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,032
5,924
borcester rhymes
Exactly. I don't understand why people think creating a super complicated linkage will somehow make a better bike. It's a good idea to avoid patents and it will work as a marketing tool to dorks and dirt but basically you just have to think how the leverage changes and where the axle goes (and it's derivatives). Ffs it's not rocket science. Just know what characterisitcs you like, read a few books, ride a few bikes and improve on them.

Not that I don't like the bike. If the susp is designed well here I'm all up for it. I just don't like where people hype up suspension because it "Looks complicated".
I like it because it might be able to approach a -dw link, which is closer to what I think is ideal for a few reasons....but the number of people on bikerumor that thought this was a linkage-driven single pivot is a testament to how little the general riding public understands by looking at a thing.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
I like it because it might be able to approach a -dw link, which is closer to what I think is ideal for a few reasons....but the number of people on bikerumor that thought this was a linkage-driven single pivot is a testament to how little the general riding public understands by looking at a thing.
Yeah a dw link anti squat and axle path with a decent leverage curve would be nice. Though it's not like it's as groundbeaking as some people make it.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,032
5,924
borcester rhymes
Yeah a dw link anti squat and axle path with a decent leverage curve would be nice. Though it's not like it's as groundbeaking as some people make it.
it's the axle path/anti squat curve that are different. It looks like this doesn't actually achieve it, but I'd rather see zero AS at top out going up to ~110%, then raising up to 150 or whatever at bottom out. That way you will always have active suspension even when really hammering out of the saddles up steep climbs, and under a very hard impact you'll give the rear wheel a little kick to move you forward. Besides, at bottom out, most of your weight is pretty firmly on the pedals so you shouldn't feel it as much as you would elsewhere in the travel.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
it's the axle path/anti squat curve that are different. It looks like this doesn't actually achieve it, but I'd rather see zero AS at top out going up to ~110%, then raising up to 150 or whatever at bottom out. That way you will always have active suspension even when really hammering out of the saddles up steep climbs, and under a very hard impact you'll give the rear wheel a little kick to move you forward. Besides, at bottom out, most of your weight is pretty firmly on the pedals so you shouldn't feel it as much as you would elsewhere in the travel.
Well it depends on how sharply it shortens. I doubt it can by that much but a big shortening on bottom out can have a negative outcome on stability. Though that's just the theory. Unless we test it it's hard to tell if it is noticeable.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
Jesus Idlers are getting popular.

Though I'm not sold on high pivot trailbikes. I don't want my trailbike to be able to plow through rocks. I want it to be a bit more playful and I want the geo to make me have fun on slower trails. For plowing I have my dh bike.
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
Jesus Idlers are getting popular.

Though I'm not sold on high pivot trailbikes. I don't want my trailbike to be able to plow through rocks. I want it to be a bit more playful and I want the geo to make me have fun on slower trails. For plowing I have my dh bike.
Yeah I agree to a point and efficiency is more of a concern. The pivot on that thing isn't too high but. I reckon it'd ride pretty good depending on all the dependable things(geo, leverage blah blah). Also depend on what your local trails consist of. Be handy if you DH a high pivot bike a lot to keep a similar feel.
Needs a bottom idler to raise chain up on underside closer to pivot. Hope the idler is durable for lots of spins.
I'd rock it.
 
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TrumbullHucker

trumbullruxer
Aug 29, 2005
2,284
719
shimzbury, ct
15mm is the new 180mm
(jk.. its a xc bike but lol at elastomers)




With the XCell elastomeric damper removed, the MTT's twin sliders are exposed to illustrate how the BMC chassis retains its lateral stability.

The Teamelite has no swingarm pivot. The frame's carbon layup provides enough vertical flex to make up for its 15 millimeters of squish.


:drag: