Yeah yeah I know. Was just on the beers when I watched it. Bummed he didn't get a clean run, but glad he pulled out all the stops and went for it too. Awesome racing.
WC #6 - Val Di Sole (ITA) 2015
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except when chainless...
Touche
Also Peaty makes an interesting comment here
http://dirtmountainbike.com/racing-events/so-much-can-go-wrong-peaty-on-the-world-cup-final.html
That the smaller, lighter riders have an advantge because they fatigue slower. That seems counterintuitive to me. Thoughts?
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How many out of the top 25 are doing serious weight/diet/fitness training in the off season? If it is a bunch of training and guys are starting to climb 20-30K feet a day on road bikes they better start testing. It turns into road bike racing that will really suck.....
Huh??? Ratboy doesnt even pedal?
Every sport has pros cons based on body anthropometrics. American Ninja Warrior seems to favor smaller guys with good wing spans. To say that DH racing favors smaller guys when Minaar and Peaty account for 35 WC wins and 4 World champs between them sounds like a stretch to me
The training's been stepped up in recent years with, it seems, heavy influence from moto. But it's always been a game of fitness, hasn't it? And hasn't the competition at the top always been tough, regardless of relative training regimens and the era?
From Troy's Instagram:
Hope he can hold on for Worlds!Crashed hard in my race run yet again! Broken finger this time.
A photo posted by Troy Brosnan (@troybrosnan) on Aug 22, 2015 at 2:14pm PDT
Lol wut?
I think he means they'll become commercial airline pilots as part of their training regime.
I see what you did there
Lance Armstrong used to bang out 7 runs to the top of of the Gibraltar Road in a day. By the start of the 3rd climb he was warmed up. Its about 4000 feet at high point....
Sounds like I need to start my EPO business for DH and Enduro!
He was doing 7 a day? Holy shit.
I think 2 would probably kill me. I've talked to some people over the years who have played around with EPO. Sounds like that stuff makes you superhuman. It would be cool to use light doses 'recreationally' to make banging out big rides 2-3 days in a rode more doable.
It's no coincedence that Gwin's coach was the father of the fastest moto rider in the U.S. (world?) this year.
Where did you read that?
Best photo. Sucks Emmeline is calling it quits. Hope she smashes Enduro or something now.
^^
She announced it in her interview with Warner.
http://m.pinkbike.com/news/emmeline-ragot-announces-retirement-2015.html
Sucks for WC dh as she was one of the few ladies that could truly challenge Rach, but her reasoning is certainly understandable and she'll kick ass at whatever she ends up doing. I'd love to have her as my physio
She announced it in her interview with Warner.
http://m.pinkbike.com/news/emmeline-ragot-announces-retirement-2015.html
Sucks for WC dh as she was one of the few ladies that could truly challenge Rach, but her reasoning is certainly understandable and she'll kick ass at whatever she ends up doing. I'd love to have her as my physio
What I never understood was the struggle she had to find sponsors. I mean Emmeline is truly one of the greatest female racers in DHs history and she couldn't find good support?
Being one of the best in a sport and having to struggle financially and not knowing where to land at the end of the season will definitely pay its toll. Adding serious injuries doesn't help too.
You know, you get tired at some point.
Sad to see her retire, but I really hope that she stays in the cirquit to support younger racers.
Being one of the best in a sport and having to struggle financially and not knowing where to land at the end of the season will definitely pay its toll. Adding serious injuries doesn't help too.
You know, you get tired at some point.
Sad to see her retire, but I really hope that she stays in the cirquit to support younger racers.
Probably a discussion for another thread, but its always been surprising to me that many of the big factory teams (Santa Cruz, Spesh, Giant and Trek) do not sponsor a woman WC DH racer. Could be there's a shortage of talented/motivated riders, they won't be selling many DH bikes to ladies no matter what, or perhaps recently they've preferred to sponsor enduro women (maybe all 3), but it does seem bizarre that Ragot had to scramble for a ride. I guess the overall team standings aren't that important to the manufacturers.
Word, impressive. According to the stravas, that would be 16k, which makes sense if you are training to race 12k days.
The World Cup xc'ers and elite roadies I follow rarely do more that 10k in a day.
Anyway, back to speculation!
Considering how "gwinish" the world champs are for 15 and 16, and gwin winning at least a few wc races next season, it's not crazy to see that dude with 16, 17, 18 wins and 2 champs a year from now...
Considering how "gwinish" the world champs are for 15 and 16, and gwin winning at least a few wc races next season, it's not crazy to see that dude with 16, 17, 18 wins and 2 champs a year from now...
Pretty sure it was the same for a lot of people in the Hill era.
Courses are more rocky/technical these days with higher risks involved, along with more competitors who are far more serious about training than back in the day. Anyone who thinks DH isn't harder to win at now than in the past is delusional in my book, it's been getting more competitive every few years - and while the bikes are getting better, that doesn't change anything when you come off either.
It's a JOKE. In fact I find it almost offensive and I am by no means a woman's right kook. Look at the interview with Ashley Fiolek she was the first full factory MX female rider and left due to low and a lack of support for the womens field. I know there is much more money in MOTO but the MTB companies can probably cough up $60K to 5 top WC females and get them money. Well now that I think about it most DH teams don't even have outside industry sponsors so they probably don't have much money to throw around.
http://carchix.com/wp/racer-leaves-due-to-lack-of-support-for-women-in-racing/
"I bought this DH bike because *insert female DH racers name here* rides one." - No one ever
A lot of brands are putting more and more into women's specific bikes, Santa Cruz, Giant, Specialized, etc. Whats to say that a woman wanting a DH bike wouldn't pay attention to what fast women are riding at the races? Just cause we dudes won't pick a bike based on women doesn't mean that other women won't relate to them.
Sure, DH bikes are a niche market and even more so for women at this point but the above argument is narrow minded at the least.
On top of that, women deserve a chance to go somewhere if they want to race. Paying out of pocket to race at this level is not only unfair, it robs future talent from being able to really explore their potential.
Sure, DH bikes are a niche market and even more so for women at this point but the above argument is narrow minded at the least.
On top of that, women deserve a chance to go somewhere if they want to race. Paying out of pocket to race at this level is not only unfair, it robs future talent from being able to really explore their potential.
There are probably 2x as many male privateers as the are entire women's DH field (These are what we call "out the ass talking" numbers.)
Sure, but if one of the top 3 women are struggling, that would be equivalent of a top 10-20 male struggling financially. That simply isn't happening.
We all know its not a rich sport compared to some out there, but there is money if they want there to be.
We all know its not a rich sport compared to some out there, but there is money if they want there to be.
And when is the last time you saw a women's specific DH bike?
What's the ratio of men:women at the consumer level for DH bikes? Probably >10:1. Why would these companies invest marketing dollars in that narrow of a market share? To "grow" it? To what, maybe 18:1 from 20:1 or some small change? The female market of the sport realistically has a very low ceiling to it.
Women absolutely deserve a chance to go somewhere to take part in the sport though. I wouldn't even say "chance" as much as an equal avenue, or an even easier avenue at the amateur level.
If anything to make the female side of the sport more attractive to prospective racers, make the entry fees half that of the male races. At the amateur level the fields are so small it wouldn't really be any skin off the back of anyone as far as race income goes.
Then what? They win a bunch of amateur races and get points to go to a World Cup race. Do so on their own dime and top 3 there. But if they struggle to fund traveling and racing and training, how long are they going to race? If there are no teams supporting them, they will burn out.
Whether or not there is a woman's specific DH bike is irrelevant. What is relevant is if there are women who look up to the top 3 girls and are in the market, they will look. Numbers may be small but not like Santa Cruz is putting research dollars into their woman's line, just paint it a different color, market under the Juliana line and name it whatever. The point is, if Syndicate had a girl on the team, they could make it worth it for that girl to keep on racing and provide a place for future girls to strive for in the race scene. And eventually, if you are somebody who only cares about the bottom line, you may even sell enough bikes to make it worth it and even if not, you will continue to build brand loyalty.
Whether or not there is a woman's specific DH bike is irrelevant. What is relevant is if there are women who look up to the top 3 girls and are in the market, they will look. Numbers may be small but not like Santa Cruz is putting research dollars into their woman's line, just paint it a different color, market under the Juliana line and name it whatever. The point is, if Syndicate had a girl on the team, they could make it worth it for that girl to keep on racing and provide a place for future girls to strive for in the race scene. And eventually, if you are somebody who only cares about the bottom line, you may even sell enough bikes to make it worth it and even if not, you will continue to build brand loyalty.
I think the whole "selling DH-bikes" is somewhat irrelevant anyway. What is the biggest market for Giant, Trek, Santa Cruz or Specialized?
Definitely not DH bikes. It's the trail market, that sells and where profit is made. And maybe commuters etc.
DH racing will always be more a prestige thing for those companys.
And besides that: Everyone and their sister was stoked to see Missy back racing. Maybe there were one or two characters more that would also be interesting to watch racing?
Emmeline was definitely one of the girls I watched, because she was one crazy all in racer.
Definitely no feminist advocate here, but if you are one of the top contenders in this sport, male or female, you deserve to get full support. And you deserve to get a living out of it.
Definitely not DH bikes. It's the trail market, that sells and where profit is made. And maybe commuters etc.
DH racing will always be more a prestige thing for those companys.
And besides that: Everyone and their sister was stoked to see Missy back racing. Maybe there were one or two characters more that would also be interesting to watch racing?
Emmeline was definitely one of the girls I watched, because she was one crazy all in racer.
Definitely no feminist advocate here, but if you are one of the top contenders in this sport, male or female, you deserve to get full support. And you deserve to get a living out of it.
On another note:
That track is beyond crazy awesome. And the riding the top ten did: Absolutely incredible.
That track is beyond crazy awesome. And the riding the top ten did: Absolutely incredible.
Then what? Realize racing mtb's is kinda stupid and do something that actually makes money? At the WC pro level, if you don't have the magic, don't bother. The magic, in this case, being the ability to get screen time/hype/sell bikes, whether it's by results (Gwin/Hill) or character (Gracia). Good luck getting someone to pay without one of those two things, and a fertile (heh heh) target market. Otherwise you're asking for a charity.
Have any of you donated money to a female WC racer? If you haven't, then why do you expect a bike company to? They are less of a charity than individuals are.
Remember people, the word is VALUE.
Remember people, the word is VALUE.
Without knowing any concrete numbers, I'll say a few things on the "women sponsorships are a joke" subject.
Male DH racing has some room for growth. Ski resorts are going to start needing to drum up more business in the summer as winter months get more and more dry and there is less snow. They will either need to create new business, or fold. But for the most part, its a male dominated sport and there are a billion more guys than girls in it.
And in general in business, ignoring a large sector of potential buyers and trying to sell to only one niche isn't a great long term strategy. There is a lot more room to attract more women to the sport, and it seems to me like I see more women riding downhill bikes then ever before every time I go to a resort or local trail system.
I just sold my DH bike because I'm living in Texas for a few years, but when my wife and I move back to somewhere with mountains, I'll be looking at buying a new one, and chances are she'll want one too. She loves watching the world cups even though it means waking up early, and she's always excited to watch Atherton. Chances are, the first DH bike we'll look at for her is a GT for this reason.
The trick to getting more bike companies to support women's racing is to put your money where your mouth is and encourage the female riders you know to do the same.
Male DH racing has some room for growth. Ski resorts are going to start needing to drum up more business in the summer as winter months get more and more dry and there is less snow. They will either need to create new business, or fold. But for the most part, its a male dominated sport and there are a billion more guys than girls in it.
And in general in business, ignoring a large sector of potential buyers and trying to sell to only one niche isn't a great long term strategy. There is a lot more room to attract more women to the sport, and it seems to me like I see more women riding downhill bikes then ever before every time I go to a resort or local trail system.
I just sold my DH bike because I'm living in Texas for a few years, but when my wife and I move back to somewhere with mountains, I'll be looking at buying a new one, and chances are she'll want one too. She loves watching the world cups even though it means waking up early, and she's always excited to watch Atherton. Chances are, the first DH bike we'll look at for her is a GT for this reason.
The trick to getting more bike companies to support women's racing is to put your money where your mouth is and encourage the female riders you know to do the same.
women's cycling and downhill in particular is getting a ton more press these days. Just when you thought amanda batty couldn't bitch any louder, pinkbike has women's cyclists on the front page every other day. There's definitely a market there, and people are going for it.
That being said, if you can't get on the podium, then you aren't going to market your product, and rachel atherton is so much better than any of her competitors that it's kind of a lost cause right now. Last year's champ couldn't beat her in a single race this year. It seems like Rachel is her own biggest competitor; if she's sick or injured, she might lose, otherwise she just needs to finish.
Finally, I find the commentary on santa cruz's women's bike line to be a bit ludicrous. All those bikes are (as are yeti's lineup) are men's bikes painted a different color with narrower bars and shorter cranks. Not that they aren't good bikes, but it's a bit shitty to spray your bike a different color and then rant about how good a job you are doing of supporting women's cycling. I suppose it would be worse to just drop the top tube and call it a day, but still...
That being said, if you can't get on the podium, then you aren't going to market your product, and rachel atherton is so much better than any of her competitors that it's kind of a lost cause right now. Last year's champ couldn't beat her in a single race this year. It seems like Rachel is her own biggest competitor; if she's sick or injured, she might lose, otherwise she just needs to finish.
Finally, I find the commentary on santa cruz's women's bike line to be a bit ludicrous. All those bikes are (as are yeti's lineup) are men's bikes painted a different color with narrower bars and shorter cranks. Not that they aren't good bikes, but it's a bit shitty to spray your bike a different color and then rant about how good a job you are doing of supporting women's cycling. I suppose it would be worse to just drop the top tube and call it a day, but still...
Why? It is marketing. Works for male customers (e.g offer it in a replica paint job), so why not giving the bike a 'female identity' to increase the sales?
And which of the female WC pros ride 'women specific' DH bikes? If on the highest level no other bike is needed then why for the amateurs?
Speaking of benefits for the companies from sponsoring females: for many years Intense supported female racers (Sabrina Jonnier, Vanessa Quinn, April Lawyer, later Tahnee...) and I seem to recall that at the time a fairly high percentage of female racers at local races was on M1/3's. Could also be the reason that not many other good options were available in smaller sizes (remember this 'one size fits all' days?).
Since I don't work for a bike company, and this is RM after all, I feel totally comfortable throwing this out there:
* Is there quantifiable data which validates even having a WC DH factory team?
It has to be exorbitantly expensive with all the travel, salaries, rider insurance, mechanics, bikes/tires/wheels, special trucks, coke/hookers, etc...and what do you get in return? As in real world increases in sales? Yeah, I get everyone will point to PB groms and mouthbreathers, but do they really sell their crabon Trek Sessions and buy flexy (but non-lumpy) crabon Spesh Demos when Gwin switches - or sell their flexy (but non-lumpy) crabon Spesh Demos when Gwin struggles for awhile on the new bike? And if so, how many people are we really talking about? All the kids I know who race DH just ride either whatever they can get a good deal on or whichever manufacturer offers them a "grassroots" sponsorship. Save for the biggest, most ignorant homers, pretty much everyone now realizes the bike really doesn't matter to these guys assuming they don't have some whack geo. I mean I <3 the two Steves, but if I was in the market for a new DH bike, I wouldn't even look at a Wilson or a V10 - mtg would instead be one step closer to suing people from his flying jet jacuzzi. Lets say Ford just up and dropped its NASCAR participation - would they stop selling F150s and Fusions? Even a little? And if they did lose a smidgen of the redneckery demographic, they'd save zillions of dollars by not sponsoring race teams, which they could just pay a little of to Toby Keith to write a terrible country song about how the new F150 will make your little willy bigger. Maybe also offer a General Lee edition to really spike up sales.
Point being, Transition seems to be selling a ton of bikes...Yeti hasn't gone out of business since dropping their WC DH team/bike. In the end, it seems like WC DH is mainly about dick wagging, and essentially a luxury afforded because they sell a bunch of mid-level hardtails and trail bikes. Don't get me wrong, I think its the most bad ass expensive habit ever, but I remain dubious that it really pays dividends that offset its costs. So if my bullshit analysis is anywhere close to correct, just go ahead and sponsor a lady if the whole thing is mainly a beauty pageant. To wit - as much as I adore Mr. Peat, Pom-Pom is a helluva lot easier on the eyes
* Is there quantifiable data which validates even having a WC DH factory team?
It has to be exorbitantly expensive with all the travel, salaries, rider insurance, mechanics, bikes/tires/wheels, special trucks, coke/hookers, etc...and what do you get in return? As in real world increases in sales? Yeah, I get everyone will point to PB groms and mouthbreathers, but do they really sell their crabon Trek Sessions and buy flexy (but non-lumpy) crabon Spesh Demos when Gwin switches - or sell their flexy (but non-lumpy) crabon Spesh Demos when Gwin struggles for awhile on the new bike? And if so, how many people are we really talking about? All the kids I know who race DH just ride either whatever they can get a good deal on or whichever manufacturer offers them a "grassroots" sponsorship. Save for the biggest, most ignorant homers, pretty much everyone now realizes the bike really doesn't matter to these guys assuming they don't have some whack geo. I mean I <3 the two Steves, but if I was in the market for a new DH bike, I wouldn't even look at a Wilson or a V10 - mtg would instead be one step closer to suing people from his flying jet jacuzzi. Lets say Ford just up and dropped its NASCAR participation - would they stop selling F150s and Fusions? Even a little? And if they did lose a smidgen of the redneckery demographic, they'd save zillions of dollars by not sponsoring race teams, which they could just pay a little of to Toby Keith to write a terrible country song about how the new F150 will make your little willy bigger. Maybe also offer a General Lee edition to really spike up sales.
Point being, Transition seems to be selling a ton of bikes...Yeti hasn't gone out of business since dropping their WC DH team/bike. In the end, it seems like WC DH is mainly about dick wagging, and essentially a luxury afforded because they sell a bunch of mid-level hardtails and trail bikes. Don't get me wrong, I think its the most bad ass expensive habit ever, but I remain dubious that it really pays dividends that offset its costs. So if my bullshit analysis is anywhere close to correct, just go ahead and sponsor a lady if the whole thing is mainly a beauty pageant. To wit - as much as I adore Mr. Peat, Pom-Pom is a helluva lot easier on the eyes
IT'S A TAX WRITE OFF.......
The women's share of the MTB market is growing. Though it is mainly in the trail segments the DH data, suspension and geo findings on the WC circuit gets trickled down to trail bikes. I mean at least Juliana should have a women's V-10 and 2 top girls.
Also I have never bought a DH bike because someone won if so I would have owned 22 SUNN Radicals over the years.
We watch races, we buy DH bikes, we buy components made by their sponsors. I haven't donated to a male racer either but I am a consumer of product.
My lady is really getting into biking this last year, I got her a Bronson and we have even done lift access 3 or 4 times and she loves that. Did a big mtn bike trip with 4 days of trail riding and 2 of lift access with amazing examples of rides for each genre. Her favorite ride was the day of riding lift access and I don't think it will be long before she has a DH bike.
I think that a lot of women that ride don't have a DH bike because they have not been exposed to it. I can see that model changing in the future and as more women ride DH, you will have more women racing DH.
Jackalope is probably right in that a racing team is probably overall, a loss. But if you consider things like brand loyalty it may not be so. Just because I am not going to buy a santa cruz DH bike, doesn't mean that I am not a fan of the brand and the next time I am looking at a trail bike I don't put them on my list to check out.