Enduro Coilshocks

I wonder how many hours will it be till we see a FOX DHX2 with CS....

They've already already showed pics of that @saruti , was on Leov's bike.
Don;t think it's quite as sophisticated as the CS though, as it seems only to be a lever for the LSC.

freeride is dead!
long live freeride!

Interested. Let's talk about the new Fox shock too.

Before everyone get's too excited, keep in mind this is a Cane Creek product, which has recently been added to the ever growing list of "unrideable trash". From the face melting stiction of the CCDB air (I swear on my old dog's grave I almost noticed it awhile back...I was so close..I think) to the tiny little bitch shaft of the coil, these products are to be avoided if at all possible. Hopefully a real suspension company will make a CS coil soon enough to spare us from this indignity.

I've been rocking a Fox Van RC all summer. It's great. Cheap and reliable and doesn't do funny things from gwinning every lift accessible endurbro run. I suppose when its time to go back to Le Moab or Fruity Town I'll put the Monarch back on. But still...the coil feels just...so right.

I ran into Darren from Push the other day on the trail. I love what he's done w/ the 11-6. But you know, I only need about 1/2 that shock. And 1/2 of the price too.

I went thru a stage where I was very picky about what was on my rear (heh). With CCDBA's and Pushed RP23's and even the Monarchs w/ or w/o Debonair. Now, I just want something that feels consistently good and is mostly maintenance free. So far the Van wins hands down.

Does this make my Avy DHX5 rideable again?

jackalope said:

Before everyone get's too excited, keep in mind this a Cane Creek product, which has recently been added to the ever growing list of "unrideable trash". From the face melting stiction of the CCDB air (I swear on my old dog's grave I almost noticed it awhile back...I was so close..I think) to the tiny little bitch shaft of the coil, these products are to be avoided if at all possible. Hopefully a real suspension company will make a CS coil soon enough to spare us from this indignity.

Click to expand...

Word is the CIA gave the leader of North Korea a Nomad with a CCDB. He actually killed himself on it, but the country is trying to hide it. As he took his last breath, he shook his fist in the air and exclaimed, "Unwidable!"

mm van R sounds tasty with one of those SLS springs

You know what's better than a climb switch?

A bike that's designed right.

Well, you do not actually benefit from the climb switch unless you pedal.

By golly, it's genious!

And you do not actually fall for this shit unless you weren't around for the first 10 generations of it.

Of all the shocks that DON'T need a climb switch, that's it.

Provided you're not on a goofy pedaling frame.........



You know, like NOT a knolly


Nah, I'm just kidding. This hawt new technology has me excited.

i've never really felt the need for one...and my bike is an an unrideabru vpp nightmare! does anyone really pedal that spastically on a fire road? and don't you want your suspension active on tech-y climbs?

jstuhlman said:

and don't you want your suspension active on tech-y climbs?

Click to expand...

Only happens on the east coast - our trails are obviously unrideabru.

stratos shocks , have not seen one of those in a very long time , knew riders using their forks and a couple using the shocks

Not my pic but that was my first climbswitch. Year 2000. Oh the horizons.........

So it makes your suspension harder so you stall out on the bumps uphill? Excellent!

It's not efficient unless I fell teh bumpz on mah booteh.

kidwoo said:

Of all the shocks that DON'T need a climb switch, that's it.
Provided you're not on a goofy pedaling frame.........

Click to expand...

I don't really think that's true, given the numerous variables in MTB it's impossible to design a bike that's 100% efficient under acceleration. Sinusoidal inputs and mass displacements, varying CoM, varying degree of incline/decline and varying anti-squat as a function of gearing mean that even the best designed bike is still a long way from being as efficient as it should be, and for trails that involve long smooth climbs a rear lockout can be quite useful - you get more efficient energy transfer and better + more consistently upright climbing geometry - which is useful on modern enduro bikes with tall forks and long/slack front ends.

Lockouts are a bit silly for shorter climbs where you might forget to turn it off (I personally don't have one or have a huge need for one), but I think there are definitely a lot of good riding locations where this is a good idea - eg. most trail riding in Whistler, Fromme in North Van, etc. Coil shocks also tend to oscillate more freely due to their superior sliding performance so losses are inherently greater. If weight increase is negligible then I think this is a great idea.

Aside from Cane Creek's atrocious product quality, this cute little trick is a day late and a dollar short IMO. Who the hell needs a climb switch when it's obvious plus sized boosted fat e-bikes will make all that climbing crap melt away under a wave of battery sourced wattz?

kidwoo said:

You know what's better than a climb switch?

A bike that's designed right.

Click to expand...

It's not a game changer or anything, but I do use the climb switch on my CCDBa on fire roads. It helps a little.

Udi said:

I don't really think that's true, given the numerous variables in MTB it's impossible to design a bike that's 100% efficient under acceleration. Sinusoidal inputs and mass displacements, varying CoM, varying degree of incline/decline and varying anti-squat as a function of gearing mean that even the best designed bike is still a long way from being as efficient as it should be, and for trails that involve long smooth climbs a rear lockout can be quite useful - you get more efficient energy transfer and better + more consistently upright climbing geometry - which is useful on modern enduro bikes with tall forks and long/slack front ends.

Lockouts are a bit silly for shorter climbs where you might forget to turn it off (I personally don't have one or have a huge need for one), but I think there are definitely a lot of good riding locations where this is a good idea - eg. most trail riding in Whistler, Fromme in North Van, etc. Coil shocks also tend to oscillate more freely due to their superior sliding performance so losses are inherently greater. If weight increase is negligible then I think this is a great idea.

Click to expand...

Not true: giant = 100% efficient!

Making heavier hardtails isn't 'efficient' either. If you're gonna take all that ass up the hill you might as well use it along the way. Of course you'll never get a system that's 100% efficient for every scenario but there are very few that a hardtail is the way to do it. Everyone thinks feeling bumps is efficient and if your shock is moving on a climb it's not. I think you get much more benefit from something like dropping the fork to maintain a bike attitude closer to where the shock was tuned. I used to race on hardtails in xc races. That's no standard to aim for on climbing traction. There's a lot more to be had from a neutral to slightly higher than antisquat curve. Every lockout/climb switch I've ever used damps so heavily it basically invalidates suspension function, cane creek included. Maybe something like that push shock can do it right? Tires that skip and get hung up certainly aren't efficient and that's usually what ends up happening.

If you want to talk about long grinding roads, a bike like that norco range I've been riding is a better situation. It has so much antisquat it drives the tire into the ground and gives it a ton of grip. Living in crappy dirt, I actually miss it a little sometimes. It's funny that's the bike they used it on in the nsmb coverage of that shock because it's one of the few I thought could benefit from the closed down rebound circuit. But then again the one I had just ended up packing up really badly at 3mph. Needless to say I never used it.

The last thing I'd want to do in southwest BC is stiffen up my suspension on trail climbs. Them roots need some wheel give. The dirt roads......just like roads everywhere else.

There are too many bike designs, geometry variations, and shock tunes to make accurate generalizations, but I still say a well tuned shock on a well designed bike doesn't need two different 'modes', when one of them just stiffens up the suspension. I've owned too many of them at this point that work too well. Stiffening shocks up is something I do use on some descents though..... Maybe call the climb switch, the pump trail switch?

good arguments on both sides, but that's the cool thing about a switch. It's probably like 5grams, and you can either use it, or not, and everyone gets what they want!
(Assuming it doesn't create any reliability issues)

I've always liked climb switches, but my new enduro has the most AS I've ever had (which is awesome), but I still like the switch for long road climbs.

WAIT...WUT?!?!
http://m.pinkbike.com/news/cane-creek-dbcoil-inline-eurobike-2015.html

With the failure rate of the air spring on the DB inline, coil seems like a smart move for that shock!

Starting to look like a Romic!

jstuhlman said:

WAIT...WUT?!?!
http://m.pinkbike.com/news/cane-creek-dbcoil-inline-eurobike-2015.html

Click to expand...

I was waiting for someone to do this - benefits of coil spring plus benefits of lockout, minus weight of piggyback. Endurbro as!

kidwoo said:

Not true: giant = 100% efficient!
Of course you'll never get a system that's 100% efficient for every scenario but there are very few that a hardtail is the way to do it. Everyone thinks feeling bumps is efficient and if your shock is moving on a climb it's not. I think you get much more benefit from something like dropping the fork to maintain a bike attitude closer to where the shock was tuned.

Click to expand...

I reckon you might be applying your own situation to everyone else's here, I know there are heaps of trails that have very smooth fireroad style climbs to get to rough downhills. I'm not saying technical root-filled climbs need a lockout, but it's definitely beneficial on long grinds - on most of which traction isn't really an issue, thus suspension oscillation does cause a substantial loss in efficiency.

Believe me, I'm the first person to appreciate high AS percentages for trail bikes (My current trailbike's a Giant - need I say more? ), but while it provides an improvement in efficiency, it can very rarely provide elimination of oscillation, whereas a lockout actually can. Again though, this might not reflect your personal climbs, but it's common elsewhere. If you've ever done the grind up to Jaws / Billy Epic, that's the kind of thing I mean (from memory), terrain where you aren't struggling for traction. I don't have a lockout either but I've definitely done long climbs like this where I wish I had one, and like 4130biker said, it probably adds 5-10g and you don't have to use it!

I promise I'm not losing sleep over it and as is often the case, making a joke was at least a decent part of the reason behind that first post. But 'where I ride' is typically the entire western half of the US over a summer, from rainforest to desert, up singletrack and roads of all kinds (haven't ridden Jaws though).

Good bikes are still good for a reason. And you know "merit" is second to "will people buy this" in the bike industry right now. Just more flippity widgets.*







*knolly excluded, then you need all the help you can get

wood booger said:

With the failure rate of the air spring on the DB inline, coil seems like a smart move for that shock!

Starting to look like a Romic!

Click to expand...

I liked mine when it wasn't puking oil!

You're just mad there's no 26-specific version

Wait, there's not?

Man fuck cane creek!

kidwoo said:

Man fuck cane creek!

Click to expand...

This is going to make the 200x57 CCDBc I'm trying to sell way harder to foist on someone.

displeased that none of these things come in 8.75 x 2.75.

jstuhlman said:

displeased that none of these things come in 8.75 x 2.75.

Click to expand...

Udi already pointed this out

jstuhlman said:

displeased that none of these things come in 8.75 x 2.75.

Click to expand...

I have a totally unrideable non-CS CCDBc I'm not doing anything with...

me too...oh wait, it's on my bike and has been working flawlessly for five years.

my SB66's CCDBA has been unridabruh ever since I huck-2-flat-2-shattered-femur'd myself at a dh race, so I took the time to make a compression lever for roads and flow trailz. I don't feel climb switches and all that jazz is really necessary with all the anti-skwatz and whatnot, but I'm bored outta my mind and thought "what the hell, why not". Found a keychain bottle opener and a long point1 steel pedal screw and got to hacking...

Before bemoaning the (admittedly monumental and unrideable) faults with the new CCDB shock, take a second and process that Risse are still selling shocks.

http://www.risseracing.com/coilshocks.shtml