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Calling the DH Monkies: Choosing a DH sled

ZHendo

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
Hey all,

Long story short, I have been riding/racing for a while and have a lot of riding experience under my belt, but not a ton on a full on DH bike. Back when freeride existed, that was my scene, but this raked out speed machine business is relatively new to me.

I bought a 2013 Glory 0 last year for an insane price and rode it a bunch in Whistler and throughout Washington state. Coming from a Banshee Spitfire, I really didn't find the Glory to be all that great. Whereas the Spitfire punches well above its weight and is better at just about everything than it should be, the Glory seems unremarkable - decent jumper, decent cornering, not great in the rough (feels like it hangs up on square edged bumps). I tried a new fork, overhauled the rear shock, etc., but nothing really improved it to where I feel like it should be. As a benchmark, I rode my buddy's 2015 Trek Session 9.9 and it absolutely blew the Glory out of the water in just about every respect.

I'm not sold on DH bikes made of fantastic plastic, and said friend has now had his Session frame in for warranty 4 times. That influenced the list of bikes I'm looking at, which includes:

Transition TR500
Scott Gambler
Knolly Podium
Guerilla Gravity GGDH

Quite an eclectic selection of bikes, I know. The Gambler is the closest to coming off of my list given its unapologetic plow bike personality, but I think it's a sick looking bike and can't really write it off just yet. The others, at least according to reviews, tend to lend themselves to a more "deliberate" approach to high speed chunder, but good cornering and a lively feel are a big deal to me.

Does anyone have any experience on 2 or more of these bikes, or on one of these bikes plus the Glory?
 
B

bengxe

Monkey
Dec 19, 2011
211
30
upstate NY
2013 is when the glory finally caught up with modern geometry, so I can't see any reason the session would "blow it away in every respect". What fork and shock were on each? I don't have any experience with the bikes on your list, but I've ridden enough sessions and glories to know that one isn't drastically better than the other. I suspect your issue is in the frame sizing or suspension setup of your glory.
 
kidwoo

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
42,146
13,340
Squirtin ketchup n' mustard on charred flesh
I haven't ridden the other three but I'd say the Transition fits your want list.

It really really reminds me of on old box frame Turner DHR. Stiff, a decent progressive stroke that hauls ass when you're on it, and gets kind of painful when you're not. Better angles obviously.

I've ridden that ilk of Glory. My gripes were more with frame flex than the suspension. But I also left it with the impression that I could change some shock settings to chill out some of the hanging up on things I felt. Maybe not.
 
RayB

RayB

Monkey
Jan 31, 2008
744
95
Seattle
Of those bikes you listed, the Gambler would be highest on my list personally with the TR500 a fairly distant second.
 
kickstand

kickstand

Turbo Monkey
Sep 18, 2009
3,441
392
Fenton, MI
ZHendo said:
Does anyone have any experience on 2 or more of these bikes, or on one of these bikes plus the Glory?
Click to expand...
I spent exactly one day on a Giant Glory, at whistler back in summer of 2013. I don't know if it was a 12 or 13. It was a rental bike with a world cup air and I believe a coil vivid.

I enjoyed the bike, at the time i was riding a tr450, which I really enjoyed. The Glory felt at home to me pretty quickly.

June 2014 I replaced my beloved tr450 with a 26" wheeled tr500. I felt right at home, it plowed well for my style of riding, it cornered and jumped better than my tr450, it pedaled well and felt very light under foot. I loved the tr500.

2015, I am riding a 650b v-10. It took me a while to get used to it, I think more so than anything it took a while to get used to the wagon wheels. I'm still not sure I like the bigger wheels. I do like the V-10 now though, I'm getting used to it and really have adapted much better to it now that I have had more time on it.

The Trek seems to be a really dialed bike especially on the race course. Nearly everyone I know that rides one kills it in their respective classes.

Don't know how helpful that all is for you. But good luck. At the end of the day I'd vote for the tr500 out of that list. I felt right at home on mine right away.
 
ZHendo

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
I'm not wedded to 650b, but I have a hunch that it may be a part of the reason I liked the Trek so much. The Trek carried its speed in technical stuff much better than my Glory did.

The Glory does have a good amount of frame flex in the rough stuff, but the DT EX500 wheels I have aren't the stiffest either, so those in tandem may explain the "twanginess" of the frame in really rocky stuff.

Yeah, the Glory has modern geometry, but it really just handle up to par for me. Like I said, I got the bike for a very good deal as a good bike to break into frequent resort riding, but it was hardly my first choice in downhill bikes. I'm hard pressed to throw money into suspension upgrades that could add up to more than the bike cost in itself.

The rear shock is a Vivid Air, which means that it lacks high speed compression adjustment and has a very limited LSC adjuster. I think some HSC tuning would really benefit the rear suspension, but again, I don't want to throw a bunch of money into new suspension on a bike that I'm not in love with in the first place.

I'm going to add the Turner and Banshee Legend to my list, but the Legend has very little written about it and seems fairly rare (probably due to high cost for an alu frame), so it's going to be hard to convince myself to go out on a limb with a relatively niche frame. I've never ridden a Turner and while I don't love the looks, it does seem like a solid bike with a good reputation.

I'm starting to feel a bit less inclined to go with the GGDH despite how much I like the company. I think the Scott and Transition are rising to the top for me at the moment, and both can be had fairly easily and at great prices for lightly used rigs. The search continues...
 
B

bengxe

Monkey
Dec 19, 2011
211
30
upstate NY
Yea I wouldn't call the legend rare, but it certainly is more of a plow bike than anything else on your list. If you're looking at new bikes, I don't think you're going to find a better deal right now than that dhr.
 
ZHendo

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
kidwoo said:
You live in the PNW and you consider the legend a 'niche' frame?

Hmm

I wouldn't let that be the reason for not getting one. Tons of those things around. At least there were a few years ago.
Click to expand...
I just haven't actually seen one in person other than in Whistler, and even there only a handful. Loads of Runes and Spitfires, but Legends are certainly not a common sight as you might think...like I said though, not totally writing it off, but hard to really convince myself without some local rider feedback on them or at least a couple comprehensive reviews of the newer one.
 
Nick

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,023
14,631
where the trails are
I've ridden all at least once.

The 450 was very similar to my old DHR as kidwoo mentioned. That's a good thing.
Podium was super fun and felt more "nimble" but was a lighter build so ymmv.
I've ridden both late model Glory and liked them enough, but didn't love 'em.
I also rode a carbon 9.9 for a day and loved it immediately. Cost aside I might have bought one.

I know of two really nice Podiums for sale, if you want to look at what you're getting for your buck.
 
ZHendo

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
Can you PM links to those Podiums you mentioned?

I did some digging on the Legend at lunch and found a surprising number of reviews, all of which seemed very positive. Lots of folks seemed to think it was a bit of a plow bike, but less so than the Gambler from what I can tell.

New list is coalescing around the Legend, DHR, TR500 and Podium. The Treks are sweet, but far too pricy for my wallet.
 
C

csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
another vote for DHR. dare i say the best 26in dh bike ever made? its weagelized so you know the sus is good, its built to survive the apocalypse(whilst still maintaining a respectable weight for an alu frame), still very relevant in terms of geo, right now they can be had cheaper than just about anything else on the market, and you get the best customer service in the biz. its a win-win-win-win-win
 
kickstand

kickstand

Turbo Monkey
Sep 18, 2009
3,441
392
Fenton, MI
You mention the vivid air on the glory, I swapped my vivid air for a coil fox on my v-10 for a run (borrowed from a pal) and it made my v-10 way better. I'm actually thinking of swapping a coil into my fork for next year too.
 
ZHendo

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
Ok, too many DHR recommendations - it's firmly on the radar. Canfield makes some sweet bikes, but the Jedi ain't for me - that thing is a plow bike to rule all plow bikes, and I'm not a big fan of the idler concept.
 
D

Dirk77

Monkey
Feb 15, 2014
233
48
The new 27.5" kona operator is aluminum. I had a carbon operator last season. It was a blast! Very playful bike. Rode high in its travel, real short chain stays/long reach. Miss that bike sometimes!
 
D

Dirk77

Monkey
Feb 15, 2014
233
48
Intense m16?

I would love to try the new legend. I just rode a banshee rune v2 for two years. Loved it, now have a real soft spot for anything banshee!
 
D

Dirk77

Monkey
Feb 15, 2014
233
48
jstuhlman said:
interested to hear your thoughts on rune vs. tracer...
Click to expand...
Only one ride in on the tracer and I need to dial in the Monarch/debonair but I had a blast. i rode my regular trails for a good comparison. They both climb very similar and very well when seated. I think the rune pedals a tad better but especially when standing and hammering the pedals on steep chunky climbs, even with the shock in open it transferred power well. I tried all three compression modes on the tracer while climbing. It didnt seem to effect much when seated, it only very slightly bobbed(same as rune). but standing in open, it does bob more and feel a little mushy. however weirdly enough I pedaled up a few climbs on the tracer that I always had trouble with on the rune so?? maybe slightly mushy just equels more traction.. it is also 3lbs lighter though..

on the dh the tracer was great! I felt like it gobbled up the chunder and square edge hits a little better and maintained speed without bucking a little better. its got a higher stack height and lower bb, so you definitely sit in the bike more than the rune. I was having a blast on berms with the tracer. It corners like crazy! The steeper head angle and shorter wheel base felt great on the local trails where theres not a shit ton of speed. more playful and responsive than the rune in that area.
so far, very happy with the trade.

sorry for hijack..
 
Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
I'd get the Gambler.

What shock are you running in the Glory? It should be better than some of those other bikes in the rough. I'd be inclined to think there's a setup issue. But either way, the Gambler tops your list if the geometry and sizing agrees with you. Slays the rough, jumps pretty well, and has one of the stiffest rearends (axially and torsionally) that I've felt on a DH bike.
 
blackohio

blackohio

Generous jaywalker
Mar 12, 2009
2,773
122
Hellafornia. Formerly stumptown.
kona operator is a fantastic surprise bike for me. I've had Evil's, Jedi's, Sunday's, more Jedi's, more Evils. IT's nimble doesnt feel like it hangs up, jumps awesome and carbon operator frames can be had fairly cheap.
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,365
1,602
Warsaw :/
ZHendo said:
I'm not wedded to 650b, but I have a hunch that it may be a part of the reason I liked the Trek so much. The Trek carried its speed in technical stuff much better than my Glory did.

The Glory does have a good amount of frame flex in the rough stuff, but the DT EX500 wheels I have aren't the stiffest either, so those in tandem may explain the "twanginess" of the frame in really rocky stuff.

Yeah, the Glory has modern geometry, but it really just handle up to par for me. Like I said, I got the bike for a very good deal as a good bike to break into frequent resort riding, but it was hardly my first choice in downhill bikes. I'm hard pressed to throw money into suspension upgrades that could add up to more than the bike cost in itself.

The rear shock is a Vivid Air, which means that it lacks high speed compression adjustment and has a very limited LSC adjuster. I think some HSC tuning would really benefit the rear suspension, but again, I don't want to throw a bunch of money into new suspension on a bike that I'm not in love with in the first place.

I'm going to add the Turner and Banshee Legend to my list, but the Legend has very little written about it and seems fairly rare (probably due to high cost for an alu frame), so it's going to be hard to convince myself to go out on a limb with a relatively niche frame. I've never ridden a Turner and while I don't love the looks, it does seem like a solid bike with a good reputation.

I'm starting to feel a bit less inclined to go with the GGDH despite how much I like the company. I think the Scott and Transition are rising to the top for me at the moment, and both can be had fairly easily and at great prices for lightly used rigs. The search continues...
Click to expand...
Just read my review of it on RM. It's a great frame if you want something stress free. It's stiff as hell and has a few neat ideas ( that make it rather durable and hard to dent vs other offerings on the market. It's my first frame I've been riding for so long (usually I change every 2 years, mine is 5 now). It depends what you want. The only reason I see to change now is for a 650b legend (and sizing since I'm in between and the new sizing fits me better).

It's not the easiest bike to jump but if you like riding sideways and picking idiotic lines then it's a bike for you. I still stand by it that it's one of the best frames on the market. Especially since they changed the sizing. Just remember to get a proper shock for it (it's very good with my DB Air). Don't get the bike if your local trails are a bit flattish since the bike feels boring below certain speeds. Though my suspension preferences are probably to blame, trying to pretend like I'm faster than I really am.
 
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