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27.5" fork on 26" DH frame...

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
15,827
13,063
Will the world end and my shims fall out if I were to put a 27.5" boxxer with existing 26" wheel on the front of my DHR?

Considering picking up a 2015 boxxer team through this winter ready for next summer. Will the extra 13mm of a2c and 6mm of offset versus a 26" boxxer turn my bike into a VPP mess?

Currently have a 888 RC3 Ti on there but really like my how my Pike rides so tempted by the charger damper in the boxxer. Concerned about spending the cash on a 26" fork when they're a dying breed, versus using a 27.5" version. I believe my 888 is also 48mm of offset so as far as I can tell it should work without killing me?
 

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
23,928
14,450
where the trails are


Just kidding.
I'd think it would be fine. But why not just buy the 26" version? Dying breed or not unless you plan to replace the DHR with something much much less awesomer, who cares?
 

Dirk77

Monkey
Feb 15, 2014
233
48
How about a 27.5" fork and wheel on the front of that bad ho?

Ppl in the biz know what's up with this!
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
You mean the people pushing fat bikes, plus sized tires, coming up with useless new bottom bracket and hub standards?


Well sign me UP!!!
I've got a Dorado on my DHR, so I'm going to put a 3.0 Gazzi up front and call it 26+. What's old is new again!
 

csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
if you're considering a 27.5 fork because of decreased resale value for a 26, id still go 26. things change so fast in this industry whatever you get is going to be obsolete in a week anyway. get the fork with the proper geo for your wheelsize and be happy
 
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kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
When did downhillers become retrogrouches?
I actually have a real answer for this.

When the bike industry stopped viewing downhill as the pinnacle of edge pushing riding, and using it to better develop suspension and tire/frame/wheel concepts. The goods used to trickle down. Now people are honestly talking about plus sized tires on dh bikes. That's not trickling down from the best. That's shit trickling up from the worst and fucking things up. You already can't find new high end 26" dh bikes. Remember........27.5 didn't come from dh (and there's a reason it was the last segment to bring it on). That came from an idea of rolling over things better at slower speeds.

That's just an example but there really is a shift. People honestly think the enduro world series is the gnarliest form of mountain biking out there. That's brain damage.

Fox's and RS's trailbike shocks and forks still come with 3 position dork levers rather than just developing a damper that works. No one needs that garbage, especially on forks.

That's not retro grouch. That's just knowing when a claimed improvement actually is one or not. I've got a plastic frame, with plastic rims and plastic cranks now. No way in hell would I have done that 5 years ago. But that's actually been improved. Not everything thrown at you from the industry is. I mean really, you got a 27.5+ fat e-bike yet?
 
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Metamorphic

Monkey
May 12, 2015
274
177
Cackalack
Thankfully, a vunderful company has developed a solution for this world ending dilemma. It is the Leveloc Rope Travel Adjustment System! Order now!

http://www.vecnum.net/bike-parts/rope-travel-adjustment/leveloc-rope-travel-adjustment.html






Serious response: Here's the dater from Rockshox' website,
AXLE TO CROWN 568mm - 26", 581mm - 27.5"

13mm change. It's like moving from a 150 fork to a 160 fork on your trail bike. Would you do that without concern for world decimation?
 

thad

Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
388
21
I actually have a real answer for this.
OK, I think DH is still the proving ground for suspension, tires, geo.

I think it's pretty fucking obvious that the bigger wheels are faster on modern World Cup tracks. Yeah, yeah, "riders ride what the sponsors want to sell", but this is still a sport full of sharpied sidewall tires, and competitors dampers shoved in sponsors fork chassis, custom geo for factory riders. If the big wheels were slower, doods would not be racing them. Big wheels roll over shit better, period. Slow speed and high speed. Also have better braking traction. Physics don't lie. Yes, there are trade offs re weight and flex, but race results don't lie.

I think modern World Cup tracks, 12 foot wide the whole way, mega high speeds, super chundered, are soooo far removed from the trails most downhillers actually ride, the 50" wheelbases, 62 deg headangles, big wheels are not what the average good rider actually wants to ride.

Everyone with a brain knows RAMPAGE is the gnarliest form of mountain biking. Then DH racing. Then enduro. I think, most riders these days see Enduro as closer to the style of riding they actually do.

I'm on a Patrol. The geo is almost identical to a Sunday, cept the seat tube angle is steeper, bit less travel, bigger wheels. I am slow adopter of new tech. Not the first to jump on board, wait for it too get cheaper, for more options to be available, and the chance to see which parts hold up in the real world. For instance, I waited til clutch derailleurs trickled down to Zee level. I relatively recently got on the dropper post, KS lev 150mm dx, waited for them to get a bit more dialed and cheaper. I'm on tubeless now, with proper tubeless rims and tires. I tried tubeless 10 years ago, had nothing but problems, and was tubes man for LIFE for quite a while. There is no carbon on my bike. 10 speed. The build kit on my bike is the best of the parts robbed from my AM 29" HT and my DH bike. My shit weighs 30 lbs, and I shuttle the gnar DH trails on it, and go on 40 mile, 10,000ft climbing epics on it, too. I have ridden every line on the trail bike, that I ever did on the the DH bike. The bike shreds so much harder than my DH bikes 10 years ago did, and is WAAAAAAY more versatile.
Finally, the little bike is MOAR fun to ride on 90% of the trails I ride, DH included. Yes, there are a few chunder sections where I feel like I'm rolling the dice a bit more, but I like to live dangerously.

I am second guessing my decision on the Patrol, and kinda wish I got the Smuggler, instead. With an angleset and big fork.

For what it's worth, I do think DH bikes would be lighter, stronger, better with 73mm bb shells and BOOST hub. RM street cred gone.

I am not with you on STIFFER WHEELS= BETTER, ALWAYS. This goes back to Nico V running soft spoke tension for increased wheel deflection. Just last week, Jared Graves interview, said he runs pinner spokes for increased flex for calmer ride in the chunder. I have always preferred softer wheels, flexier fork. Straight up think, TOO STIFF handles like crap.

Finally, plus sized tires. I did a 4000ft big mountain shuttle with the homie who was testing that extremely effeminate 29+ Trek Stache hardtail. http://www.pinkbike.com/news/trek-stache-9-review-2015.html
He was shredding. I took the thing for a spin. I have put in my days riding DH trails on 29" AM HT, so I am somewhat retarded. It rolls way faster than you would think. And has crazy traction. All were agreed, it's not a bike any of us would buy, but it actually is surprisingly shredable.

Finally, one of my favorite DH tires of all time was the 2.8" Michelin Comp 32. You know, the one Colin Bailey knocked off to make the Minion. Maybe not the fastest, but there is no tire more confidence inspiring in the steep gnar. Those old tires weighed a boat load, but with modern tire tech, they can make similar tire, without the obscene weight. If Schwable makes a 2.8" magic mary 27.5+ I would def try em out.

I am doped to the gills on Nyquil cold n flu
 

thad

Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
388
21
OK, Gwin won without a chain...sometimes the fastest dood wins, regardless of how his bike handicaps him. Who won on 26" in 2015? Did anyone even podium? Fearon was on 26" first half of the season, but pretty sure his big result was on big wheels, too. I got $20 that says noone podiums on 26" in 2016.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Connor fearon wasn't going to be winning world cups on either wheel size. Bryceland won as one of the last people on 26" wheels. His first win, in a field surrounded by the hottest newest. (btw, you know loic crashed in that because his wheel flexed too much right?)
What I'm responding to is your claim that "it's pretty fucking obvious that bigger wheels are faster"

The only thing obvious is that everyone was on them in 2015 because that's what their sponsors made. So people on them won some races. (well like 3). That's a brave 20 dollar bet for 2016 considering like no one with any sort of sponsor will ON 26" wheels.

What I'm telling you is that it makes no fucking difference. All that effort into advertising, retooling, completely reinventing a functional long standing standard makes no fucking difference to people who are going to figure out how to haul ass on bicycles because they're paid to. But the switch in that realm was certainly NOT based on performance gains. Because it would have miraculously happened BEFORE every trail bike maker on the planet decided that's what you can buy. Want proof: no denying skinsuits are faster but as long as no one else is wearing them, the field is level. Same deal. There's not some glaringly obvious truth that only you are privy to. Really.

But that's being honest. That's not something you seem to be willing to do. Half an inch of radius isn't even close the difference that a thicker GRIP makes to riding. So no, it's not 'fucking obvious' to me that flexier, buy new stuff wheelsizes are superior. What's obvious is that fast guys are also fast on them. Man.........like the renaissance up in here. Whodathunk?


Again, the wheelsize thing is just an example. And like that, a 73mm bb isn't going to make your bike appreciablly better :rofl: If so specialized has something rad for you in a 2008 demo 8 when everyone else went to 150 hubs.
 
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thad

Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
388
21
So wait? You think everyone should be mandated to be on 26" even though they are slower than big wheels, because big wheels are as ghey as skinsuits? I am confused.

Fearon is a shredder. He had 1 sec on the rest of the field, and beat Gwin's 1st place quali run. Were you watching the same Leogang race I was? When Gwin snapped his chain out of the gate, everyone was all Fearon just got his first win!! but Rock Jesus just fucking laid it down, no chain and took the win. Sometimes riders just put it all down, and are riding on another level. Kinda like Bryceland did the year before, same venue.

I have ridden all three of the major wheel sizes. Little wheels are better for tight pocket berms and steep, lippy jumps. Bigger wheels are better for pretty much everything else: rolling over shit, braking traction, stability.

Ok, how bout this? I bet you $20 a 29" or plus size tire is on the podium before a 26" is.

Dood, was 2013 the last time you got laid or something? Just trying to understand the fanatical dedication to old timey bike parts.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
I actually have a real answer for this.
When the bike industry stopped viewing downhill as the pinnacle of edge pushing riding, and using it to better develop suspension and tire/frame/wheel concepts. The goods used to trickle down. Now people are honestly talking about plus sized tires on dh bikes. That's not trickling down from the best. That's shit trickling up from the worst and fucking things up.
Hey, at least you're not bitter.

I actually agree on most fronts (almost all) but I think you're probably being a bit tinfoil-hatman with the 650b. My bikes are all still 26" personally, but I also don't ride WC DH tracks on a daily basis and I can see how it'd be a distinct advantage when riding tracks that are a) that rough, and b) have that minimum corner radii + general flow. Local tracks just tend to be tighter and mine certainly benefit from 26" in a lot of places, no doubt yours too.

The bottom line is that WC courses minimise the downfalls of 650b while offering potential to maximise the benefits. Keep in mind that if you can improve bump absorption at the wheel level, you can optimise suspension further in the direction of geometrical stability and predictability, which is ultimately faster.

When you have to address bump absorption with more travel and things like heavily rearward axle paths, you're compromising geometrical (and CoM) stability. There's a reason V10s with 10" of travel died out, and a reason the ridiculously rearward axle path bikes are going the way of the dinosaur too.

I think the correct answer is to pick what works for what/where you ride. WC DH while possibly falling in popularity (which is mega lame like you said) is more competitive than ever, and if anything causing a bigger gap between the average joe and the WC top 10. I think that makes it more important to think about choices before blindly adopting them - and thankfully we still have that choice - at least for another year or two.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator

My point was only that the bike industry has gone nuts the last few years putting out things that aren't necessarily improvements. And I intentionally picked a topic as an example that I knew you would explode about.


Getting laid? Really? How did you decide between that one and the little dick option?

:rofl:

It's mountain bikes dude.
 
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kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Hey, at least you're not bitter.

I actually agree on most fronts (almost all) but I think you're probably being a bit tinfoil-hatman with the 650b.
I'm not foilhatting™ this at all. I HAVE ridden plenty of the damn things. Probably more models than most people that own one.

Thad rides a 29er an fixates on things so hard, even you would be shocked, so I like messing with him. That really has more to do with this than anything :D

For instance, watch this: hey thad, schwalbe hans dampfs are the shittiest tire ever made.


I mean that's kind of a gimme but just watch what he does next.
 
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thad

Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
388
21
hhahahahha, I am sick and fucked up on nyquil.:maninlove:

Actually, I'm on the 650B's and just went on a cross country road trip, and hit up all kinds of east coast gnar, CO and UT. Glad to be back in the PNW where people know how to build trails, lol. Though I did just hit North Shore this week and rode some uphill skinnies and a wheelie drop even. Been on dhf f, trailboss r, but bout to switch to schwobbly magic mary f, DHR2 for wet season. At one point HD was the best 29" tire available. Now that more people have got the memo that you can actually shred on the big wheel, there are waaaay more tire options available.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the 2015 world's won on a 26" Lapierre?
Nah pretty sure that was 27.5 both ends.

I'm not foilhatting™ this at all.
Pretty sure you are but takes one to know one, I think we should compare hats. :D

Will the world end and my shims fall out if I were to put a 27.5" boxxer with existing 26" wheel on the front of my DHR?
Considering picking up a 2015 boxxer team through this winter ready for next summer. Will the extra 13mm of a2c and 6mm of offset versus a 26" boxxer turn my bike into a VPP mess?
Since not many people replied directly, I think this should work fine.
The dw-dhr is a bit on the low side with the stock BB height, I think running a 650b fork should give a little bit more adjustment range up front, and the head angle will stay well within acceptable limits by modern standards. I've run the 26" 40 much higher than that on the same frame (it has 25mm or more of extension) and it was fine. Just make sure you reset bar/stem height if needed.

If you want first hand experience someone on here actually runs the exact combination you listed, I feel like it's either WBC or Skullcrack (maybe) but can't find the post. Looked good and they seemed happy, I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work well.
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,195
4,419
Re: 27.5/29/+/Fat/Boost...
How are those Air Jordans helping out your 360-dunk?
 

thad

Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
388
21
Just out of curiosity, who was first guy to win a world cup on the 650b's?
First time I remember them making waves was when Stevie qualified 1st at PMZ world champs in 2013, but he crashed in the first corner in finals.
It's raining, and I'm still sick. I think I might dork out and make a spreadsheet of 2014 and 2015 WC results X wheelsize.
 

thad

Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
388
21
Brosnan 2014 Fort William is first win on 650b, also his first WC win ever. Beat Gee's previous record for fastest time down the track ever 2013. Noone else in the field beat Gee's 2013 time,

Gwin was on 26" demo, got 4th.
 
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kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
hhahahahha, I am sick and fucked up on nyquil.
Drink whiskey you freak. You're kind of raving nut on nyquil.


I mean it's what I do to get that point.


And hell you drag me down so low, udi finds himself needing to make a 200 word post that amounts to "hey, ya know, I think big wheels really do roll over things better but might not turn as well in tight spots" :rofl:

You've torn this family apart! Your nyquil drinking must stop.
 
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Dirk77

Monkey
Feb 15, 2014
233
48
I'd like a 29er enduro but that slack head tube angle turns me off, So I been thinking of just putting a 26" wheel up front to steepen it up and make it Badass on switch backs but still have tons of roll over. In the back....

People that know about geometry and shit know what's up...
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I'd like a 29er enduro but that slack head tube angle turns me off, So I been thinking of just putting a 26" wheel up front to steepen it up and make it Badass on switch backs but still have tons of roll over. In the back....

People that know about geometry and shit know what's up...

I'd rather ride a 29er than build up a bike specifically with switchbacks in mind.

The bike is not the problem in that case.
 

Dirk77

Monkey
Feb 15, 2014
233
48
Ya true.. maybe I could just run a rockshox bluto fat bike shock up front, that way I can run a 26" wheel with a cassette on it for the switchies but then change it and put the 29er up front and the 26er in the back for chunky stuff with bigger radius turns. Then that would slack it out more for dh too!

Winning!
 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,883
448
Ya true.. maybe I could just run a rockshox bluto fat bike shock up front, that way I can run a 26" wheel with a cassette on it for the switchies but then change it and put the 29er up front and the 26er in the back for chunky stuff with bigger radius turns. Then that would slack it out more for dh too!

Winning!
Why not get a travel adjust fork? ...way cheaper/lighter. Enduro 29 is pretty sweet on high speed DH ish stuff as it sits
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
And hell you drag me down so low, udi finds himself needing to make a 200 word post that amounts to "hey, ya know, I think big wheels really do roll over things better but might not turn as well in tight spots"
That's funny after your own 200 word post prefaced with "I actually have a real answer…" that you're now claiming is a joke. :)
 

Dirk77

Monkey
Feb 15, 2014
233
48
Why not get a travel adjust fork? ...way cheaper/lighter. Enduro 29 is pretty sweet on high speed DH ish stuff as it sits
uh, no... Pretty sure my idea about running two cassettes,two different wheels sizes, and a fatbike shock is way easier.. Pfft its fullproof!

Just was thinkin on another idea.. Scrap the special ed enduro frame. Do all this stuff to a Ellsworth Dare frame. Ultimate setup!!