Any Pike fans ridden a new Lyrik?

ianjenn · Jan 27, 2016

Pike fans?

Where you live......

ianjenn · Jan 27, 2016

Well the DVO I have now is stiffer than the PIKE. But I would imagine that Lyrik is fairly firm. Do the Lyrik's have external travel adjust?

Jm_ · Jan 27, 2016

I'm getting one soon, but I'll be putting my Avalanche pike pistons in it at the least, and maybe a damper replacement if I sell some stuff off. Thought my DVO was just as stiff as the pike, no reason it would be significantly different based on construction and materials. Lyric is only .3lb heavier than the pike, which still puts it a hair lighter than my DVO. Impressive weight. Same exact damping as the pike tho.

kidwoo · Jan 27, 2016

I'm annoying so I'll bring it up anyway.

What's the most recent 36 you've ridden? The one I bought at the end of last year seriously has the best stock damper of any fork (maybe even shock period) I've ever ridden. RS does some things really well but compression damping ain't one of them. They cover the HSC thing with volume reducers but real damping is kinda neat.

Gotta figure out how to get one in that lighter lyric dual position chassis. :rofl:

Kanye West · Jan 28, 2016

kidwoo said:
I'm annoying so I'll bring it up anyway.

What's the most recent 36 you've ridden? The one I bought at the end of last year seriously has the best stock damper of any fork (maybe even shock period) I've ever ridden. RS does some things really well but compression damping ain't one of them. They cover the HSC thing with volume reducers but real damping is kinda neat.

Gotta figure out how to get one in that lighter lyric dual position chassis.

So I'm not the only one who thinks the Charger dampers have basically no damping in either direction unless the clickers are almost closed?

kidwoo · Jan 28, 2016

Hacktastic said:
So I'm not the only one who thinks the Charger dampers have basically no damping in either direction unless the clickers are almost closed?

I'm not sure I'd go that far.

At my size and given air pressures, yes, I can achieve rebound damping. And the swift return dealio I think is really good. The compression dampers on the other hand.........like I said, the volume reducers take the load off the need for HSC damping. I think their low speed compression stuff on the forks is basically none to locked too much, lacking any kind of smooth blowoff. And 'too much' happens before maxing it out all the way, at least for me.

The forks I've had from them since the chargers came out can definitely be set to an annoying level of LSC damping before getting completely maxed. It won't feel like jack shit just pressing on it but riding, I can feel it. But it sucks so yeah I do run it mostly open. Not because I don't want any real LSC damping, more just that it's so horrible I don't use it.

RS does air springs, rebound circuits and low friction pretty well IMO. They still haven't ever made a decent compression damping circuit though. I think FOX (finally) really has. Part of my love for that newer fox stuff as a whole is taking from the RS rebound circuit though.

Have you tried just sticking some thicker juice in a charger damper? I've never felt the need but you're bigger than me.

Kanye West · Jan 28, 2016

I thought about it since it uses 3w RSF in the damper normally, so a slightly thicker option wouldn't be hard to achieve. I sold it before I got motivated enough to mess with it and got........wait for it.....

A DVO

buckoW · Jan 28, 2016

I've got a Lyric and it feels sweet! Just like a Pike but bigger.
I do agree with Kidwoo though. The new Fox 36 fork is very good! I prefer the 36 but I'm a Fox fan.

kidwoo · Jan 28, 2016

You probably don't want to hear this but I think the newer rebound piston started on the 2016 fox stuff.

But I agree with you on the dead feeling. That's what I didn't like about my 40 that I stuck a charger damper in. The new ones is gooder.

Hard to beat the weight on the rockshox forks however. My talas weighs over a lb and a half heavier than the lowest weight float that fox publishes for all the 36s.

ianjenn · Jan 28, 2016

The 2015 TALAS I had on the MEGA was pretty good.

Plus you can have two travel options to match the frame.

kidwoo · Jan 28, 2016

Yeah I'm with you. I've got two trail bikes built up and the megatrail with the pike is a few lbs lighter than the plastic bike with the talas. That air assembly on those things is a tank. And like you, I really really like being able to drop the front end in steep loose climbs.

The float weights are comparable to the RS stuff. But going talas changes that. I need to get a fox damper in a lyric or a lyric DPA assembly in a 36.

92SE-R · Jan 28, 2016

Also, how is the yaris damper? Would it be good enough till i drop an avalanche damper in there? The old motion control sucked.

Bikael Molton · Jan 29, 2016

Yes, get some Avy for your Toyota Yaris.

Uncle Cliffy · Jan 29, 2016

Put my first ride on a 180mm 2 Position Lyrik last weekend. I've been on a 2013 Pike up until now.

They really did a number on stiction. My Pike was always pretty smooth, but now it's a new level out of the box. I can also feel it's stiffer even with 20mm more travel. If you're a bigger guy, or just want a stiffer chassis, this is it. I can't comment on the HSC just yet as I don't have my air pressure and volume dialed in. The fork still held the wheel down where it needed to be, took rough stuff and G-outs perfectly. I didn't really get a chance to get full travel.

I'm fighting a new injury, but hopefully will get more time on it soon.

Dogboy · Jan 30, 2016

wydopen said:
So the 180 DPAs are 180/150?? Going with the 180 and getting an internal headset cup doesn't sound like a bad idea but I think 150s going to be too tall for me for the steep climbs being that Im used to 130...also Im afraid to mess with my geometry too much as what Im running has been worked pretty damn good...I wonder if you can change the 180 dpa's to 160s?

There are 2 DPA models - 180/150 and 160/130.

kidwoo · Jan 30, 2016

I wish there was a 170/140 dammit!

There's gotta be a way to modify those things. They're pretty simple.

I haven't talked to vorsprung steve in a while.......... Hmm

Gotta figure that one out and stuff it in my 36.

Uncle Cliffy · Jan 30, 2016

kidwoo said:
I wish there was a 170/140 dammit!

Hopefully there's a way to do this to mine.

mtg · Jan 30, 2016

Hacktastic said:
So I'm not the only one who thinks the Charger dampers have basically no damping in either direction unless the clickers are almost closed?

How much do you weigh? And how much sag do you run?

Kanye West · Jan 30, 2016

mtg said:
How much do you weigh? And how much sag do you run?

185-190#. 160mm fork, ran anywhere from 10%-30% sag when I still owned that fork. Rebound and comp both had to be well past halfway to settle down the front at all. This was the RC version that came OEM on a 2014 Enduro 29.

The damping aside, the fork suffered more from binding than anything else. Little stuff it was ok, but larger braking bumps or rocks, or anything encountered during a lean it would just lock up. Then it would also damn near bottom if loaded in-plane into a loose berm.

mtg · Jan 30, 2016

Hacktastic said:
....30% sag

I found the problem.

Kanye West · Jan 30, 2016

Just a range of what I tried. It mostly was around 20%.

I know some VERY fast riders who won't run less than 30% fork sag and 40-45% rear shock sag. That's not necessarily a "problem".

Kanye West · Jan 30, 2016

Besides, fork "sag" is a retarded way to quantify the front end since it's hard to get an accurate measurement of. Sitting? Standing? Fork burped or not? Bushings binding? Bounce first or just use a single displacement? How many spacers/tokens? Really fast guys on slack DH bikes won't even be able to make their forks move by sitting on the bike on flat ground. Doesn't mean anything.

If you have half a brain about how to set up suspension, you can ignore the front end numbers, and get it balanced much better by feel. If the pitch/bounce frequency balance of the bike feels right for the terrain, then it's right.

tuumbaq · Jan 30, 2016

Hacktastic said:
Besides, fork "sag" is a retarded way to quantify the front end since it's hard to get an accurate measurement of. Sitting? Standing? Fork burped or not? Bushings binding? Bounce first or just use a single displacement? How many spacers/tokens? Really fast guys on slack DH bikes won't even be able to make their forks move by sitting on the bike on flat ground. Doesn't mean anything.

If you have half a brain about how to set up suspension, you can ignore the front end numbers, and get it balanced much better by feel. If the pitch/bounce frequency balance of the bike feels right for the terrain, then it's right.

Actually, not really, fork sag is and always has been measure standing in the "attack" position after cycling the fork a few times...Its a fairly accurate way to quantify the front end if you are using a fresh suspension.

30% up front is too much...end of the story.Not sure how fast your fast rider friends are but 30% just aint working when you go to a certain speed and 45% at the rear is even worst.A "firm but supple" setup for an average fast rider riding DH would be 15-20% front/30-35% back.10-15% front and 20-25% would be consider "stiff-iiish" for real fast rider.No sag front and 15-%20% rear is stupid hard for stupid fast riders.

Once you got that dialed in to taste then you start messing up with compression settings

tuumbaq · Jan 30, 2016

Another one for the 36 FLOAT, not Talas ( although its much better than it used to be) The fork just plain works, slick, good damper, good chassis = better than Lyrick imo.

Testing your friends fork that hasnt been service for a while is NOT a good way to demo a fork.Simply put , if you can afford it, the 36 is the better fork.Lyrick is good but the Fox is good-er

Kanye West · Jan 30, 2016

tuumbaq said:
Actually, not really, fork sag is and always has been measure standing in the "attack" position after cycling the fork a few times...Its a fairly accurate way to quantify the front end if you are using a fresh suspension.

30% up front is too much...end of the story.Not sure how fast your fast rider friends are but 30% just aint working when you go to a certain speed and 45% at the rear is even worst.A "firm but supple" setup for an average rider riding DH would be 15-20% front/30-35% back.10-15% front and 20-25% would be consider "stiff-iiish" for real fast rider.No sag front and 15-%20% rear is stupid hard for stupid fast riders.

Once you got that dialed in to taste then you start messing up with compression settings

Completely inaccurate. You'll get a totally different number by letting it rebound to the "sag point" than if you were to just load the bike once and let it compress to the "sag point". No fork is immune to that.

Again, no such thing as too little or too much if it matches the terrain and the damping coeffecients correspond to the rate. Downtravel/low natural frequency is important, especially if there aren't many g-outs, or the rider uses the travel in their arms and legs more than normal. It depends what the objective and the application of the suspension is. This shit about "hard and fast rules" for setting up suspension is totally silly, especially with the presence of wacky spring curves/wheel rates. It's a starting point for an average rider in average conditions, nothing more.

The people I see riding those lower-riding setups are significantly faster than the average Sport class rider, to say the least.

I don't run my stuff that way, because I set mine up for a different application. Obviously it works for some people and shouldn't prevent anyone from trying something similar.

But, you seem to know from wherever you are that it just "isn't working". Wish I had that level of insight. I would probably make more money than I do now.

kidwoo · Jan 30, 2016

I usually set my fork sag while in the 'pelvic thrust' position. It mimics fairly well my general riding steeze.

Jm_ · Jan 30, 2016

Hacktastic said:
185-190#. 160mm fork, ran anywhere from 10%-30% sag when I still owned that fork. Rebound and comp both had to be well past halfway to settle down the front at all. This was the RC version that came OEM on a 2014 Enduro 29.

The damping aside, the fork suffered more from binding than anything else. Little stuff it was ok, but larger braking bumps or rocks, or anything encountered during a lean it would just lock up. Then it would also damn near bottom if loaded in-plane into a loose berm.

I had to run compression about halfway when DHing to keep the fork high in the travel, it was effective though and more useful than past "compression adjustments". Still, I've got my avy pistons here waiting for my Lyric when it arrives.

30% sag was way too much for the pike tho. If it was a coil fork, maybe so, but the curve is much more set up for around 20-25% IME.

johnbryanpeters · Jan 31, 2016

This conversation or its equivalent has gone on endlessly regarding brakes, forks, shocks, and tires. At some point it might seem important to quit fiddling and actually ride a bike. It might actually prove to be enjoyable and rewarding.

dump · Jan 31, 2016

johnbryanpeters said:
This conversation or its equivalent has gone on endlessly regarding brakes, forks, shocks, and tires. At some point it might seem important to quit fiddling and actually ride a bike. It might actually prove to be enjoyable and rewarding.

We're talking about internet bikers here... actually riding a bike not required.

OffCamber · Jan 31, 2016

kidwoo said:
I wish there was a 170/140 dammit!

There's gotta be a way to modify those things. They're pretty simple.

I haven't talked to vorsprung steve in a while.......... Hmm

Gotta figure that one out and stuff it in my 36.

Do they make a 150/120 for a 26" Pike?

Udi · Mar 13, 2016

kidwoo said:
RS does air springs, rebound circuits and low friction pretty well IMO. They still haven't ever made a decent compression damping circuit though. I think FOX (finally) really has.

Agreed, personally I've really liked Fox compression dampers since they switched to the inverted FIT RC2 (in 2011). Apart from occasionally adding an extra (or thicker) face shim to the compression stack, I've found them very capable compression dampers, with minimal spiking at high levels of support, and generous levels of external adjustability for different types of tracks/riding.

I'm of the opinion that you don't get this level of external control without a proper HS adjuster, however in some cases, even having the adjuster (on some other brands) doesn't cover the bases because it doesn't operate within a useful range (BOS in some cases) or have enough granularity (Manitou in some cases).

Rockshox have had nice rebound dampers since about 2010 in my book, and they are doing well with the low-friction in the latest forks, but the compression dampers have always left something to be desired and IMO it's still the case (funnily enough, different things every year).

Unrelated to all of that, 20mm axles are badass (like >9000 times more badass than 15mm, I have a graph to prove this) so aside from my mild Fox bias, I like the 36 for sticking to that too. Plus if you don't like that, they come with inferiority spacers.

Jm_ · Mar 13, 2016

I took apart my Lyrik damper first thing to replace the Pistons with my Avalanche ones. The stock compression piston had a flat compression shim stack, no pyramid, very basic/crude. Seems like it would be relatively easy to fix with the right shims.

Nick · Mar 13, 2016

Jm_ said:
I took apart my Lyrik damper first thing to replace the Pistons with my Avalanche ones. The stock compression piston had a flat compression shim stack, no pyramid, very basic/crude. Seems like it would be relatively easy to fix with the right shims.

hey Jim, take and post pics, wouldya please?
Kthx!

Any Pike fans ridden a new Lyrik?

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