The next Shimano gravity group? opinions?

Kevin · Feb 13, 2016

Shimano Gravylines.
They work like Shimano Airlines but with gravitational waves in stead of air so you dont need the cannister and can shift at 99.99% the speed of light.

Muddy · Feb 13, 2016

Kevin said:
Shimano Gravylines.
They work like Shimano Airlines but with gravitational waves in stead of air so you dont need the cannister and can shift at 99.99% the speed of light.

thad · Feb 13, 2016

My guesses:

That new freehub design that is kinda like DT or King ringdrive, except coasts with less drag

Cranks will get a lil lighter and use that steel plated carbon chainring

kidwoo · Feb 14, 2016

hitar_potar said:
Yeah, but what about brakes? What can they do to make them even better than they already are?

Make them stop leaking brake fluid all over my brake pads any time my bike sits for 3 days.

Come up with a system that doesn't harbor so many little air bubbles that tilting a bike in one of several ways doesn't change the engagement point, sometimes so badly there's literally no braking force until pumped up.

You know......the "little things".

iRider · Feb 14, 2016

kidwoo said:
Make them stop leaking brake fluid all over my brake pads any time my bike sits for 3 days.

Come up with a system that doesn't harbor so many little air bubbles that tilting a bike in one of several ways doesn't change the engagement point, sometimes so badly there's literally no braking force until pumped up.

You know......the "little things".

You are not talking about Avid brakes, are you?

maxyedor · Feb 14, 2016

Saint Di2, 11spd or midget 7 speed cassette, and a mechanical 11spd Saint mech and shifter roughly between XT and XTR.

Hubs will remain the same, but I could see a carbon wrapped rim like the XTR wheels have.

Brakes, I'll second Mr. Woo, hopefully they get the reliability dialed in, maybe shave a couple grams and add more wacky shit to the rotors. Or, bring back the twin rotor brakes!

Jm_ · Feb 14, 2016

I would call it Derp and place it above Zee:

Saint
Derp
Zee

vinny4130 · Feb 14, 2016

Shimano could have made the 2nd gen saints till about now before needing to compete with anyone else.

jonKranked · Feb 14, 2016

maxyedor said:
Saint Di2

this. saint is shimano's DH race grouppo, so this is the next logical step now that there is an xtr di2 platform.

wydopen · Feb 14, 2016

kidwoo said:
Make them stop leaking brake fluid all over my brake pads any time my bike sits for 3 days.

Come up with a system that doesn't harbor so many little air bubbles that tilting a bike in one of several ways doesn't change the engagement point, sometimes so badly there's literally no braking force until pumped up.

You know......the "little things".

some modulation would be nice too...they might as well just have an on/off button..might save some weight...maybe they just work better on the internet than they do on the trail...

HAB · Feb 14, 2016

kidwoo said:
Make them stop leaking brake fluid all over my brake pads any time my bike sits for 3 days.

wydopen said:
some modulation would be nice too...

That's what the oil leak is for, duh.

blackohio · Feb 14, 2016

saint will be next year. I believe road groups are up in '16 for chassis revamp. I've since forgotten what was what since leaving shimano.

ritche · Feb 14, 2016

feasible:

1. electronic shifting with push buttons.
2. brake, technology as is, but 220 mm optimized rotor diameter as standard for 650B dh bikes
3 . DH specific 7 speed casette from shimano.
4. Carbonz on crank arms, BB body, Hub body, floating rotor body, break levers, cassette spider, rims,

maybe:
1. Belt driven internal geared (7) speed hub for DH. (exisitng = alfine but heavy).

HAB · Feb 14, 2016

ritche said:
feasible:

1. electronic shifting with push buttons.
2. brake, technology as is, but 220 mm optimized rotor diameter as standard for 650B dh bikes
3 . DH specific 7 speed casette from shimano.
4. Carbonz on crank arms, BB body, Hub body, floating rotor body, break levers, cassette spider, rims,

maybe:
1. Belt driven internal geared (7) speed hub for DH. (exisitng = alfine but heavy).

Not a chance Saint gets carbon cranks etc before XTR.

kickstand · Feb 14, 2016

hitar_potar said:
Yeah, but what about brakes? What can they do to make them even better than they already are? Would we finally see a Freeza 6-bolt rotor? Cause Superstar Components already makes one, although it's not an exact copy. And the gears - would they go the Sram route with 7 speeds, any cogs smaller than 11t, lighter materials but yet strong enough? And would they finally accept that their hubs have to get sealed bearings in order to cope better with gravity tasks?

They could make the brakes stop sucking, that would make them better.

kidwoo · Feb 14, 2016

wydopen said:
some modulation would be nice too...they might as well just have an on/off button..might save some weight...maybe they just work better on the internet than they do on the trail...

I don't have a problem with the modulation. Like anything else, you just get used to it. I've got no problem braking a lot or a little and changing through an 'event'

I got a lot of cheap brakes from friends that bought some and killed themselves in the first week of riding them.

"these things are gnarly, you want them?" :rofl:

HAB · Feb 14, 2016

kidwoo said:
I don't have a problem with the modulation. Like anything else, you just get used to it. I've got no problem braking a lot or a little and changing through an 'event'

Yeah joking aside, I'm with you on the modulation. I've actually managed to get both pairs of my XTRs pretty solid, but my Saints have always been a little funky.

blackohio · Feb 14, 2016

When I ride other peoples bikes now, parking lot tests im always jealous of lever feel on sram stuff, then i ride them and feel like i have to hammer them to the bar for anything to happen.

jstuhlman · Feb 14, 2016

i don't care what they do, just as long as whatever it is requires new standards.

blackohio · Feb 14, 2016

hitar_potar said:
Ummm, why would you need a Di2 version of the Saint? Would it be so much better than a regular one? Or is it only for the bling? And why would you need an 11-speed version? Sram showed us 7-speed is enough, given that the gears are selected wisely. As far as carbon crank, i think they'll stay alu - they don't look ready to shake things up seriously.
Last time when 820 group was about to be revealed, we saw photos of Gwin riding and testing different prototypes of the drivetrain - derailleurs, brakes, shifter etc. Then i thing Gee Atherton had a go on some prototypes (around the time we saw him on the USD Fox fork). So, we had some sort of an idea as to what's coming. But now... nothing.

Have you ever played with / set-up di2? its pretty fucking awesome. Unfortunately 1X looses much of its awesomeness, having a derailleur that can micro adjust or never loose adjustment over time is pretty cool.

Shimano testing products is no real indication to timed releases. shimano releases on a schedule. XT last year, Dura-Ace this year, saint/zee next year. They have a mapped out table they follow. While whats part of that mapped table can change depending on market direction. Shimano also tests for much longer prior to releasing so to minimize revisions. SRAM and Shimano have wildly different production schedules. SRAM I believe manufacture a set product group throughout the year. Shimano forecasts and builds to forecasts one time a year for given products. This can be a challenge if theres a unexpected jump in demand, however it allows shimano to spend more time from prototype to production working on said products, since it's release might not be for 2 years from prototype phase. This has its own unique set of challenges, but Yozo says shimano is a design/engineering and manufacturing company long before a bike component manufacturer.

slimshady · Feb 15, 2016

I believe Shimano will release a SLX 1x11-centric gruppo this year, the middle pack OEM trail bike market is where SRAM is killing Shimano, even more since NX was released last week, and with the upcoming X01 Eagle 1x12 being released in one month, the Raising Sun boys will have to show something appealing pretty soon.

Dogboy · Feb 15, 2016

slimshady said:
I believe Shimano will release a SLX 1x11-centric gruppo this year, the middle pack OEM trail bike market is where SRAM is killing Shimano, even more since NX was released last week, and with the upcoming X01 Eagle 1x12 being released in one month, the Raising Sun boys will have to show something appealing pretty soon.

I think so too. I've seen upcoming bikes spec'd with unnamed Shimano components in the SLX price range.

HAB · Feb 15, 2016

blackohio said:
Have you ever played with / set-up di2? its pretty fucking awesome. Unfortunately 1X looses much of its awesomeness, having a derailleur that can micro adjust or never loose adjustment over time is pretty cool.

Yeah. I have it on my (gasp!) road bike, and really, really like it there. I'm less enthused about it on a 1x mountain setup because a lot of the advantages have to do with the better management of the front derailleur, and because the rear derailleurs are expensive. Fine on a road bike, but scary on a mountain bike where the possibility of smashing shit is higher. That said if I was made of money I'd absolutely run XTR Di2 because it does work great.

maxyedor · Feb 15, 2016

hitar_potar said:
Ummm, why would you need a Di2 version of the Saint? Would it be so much better than a regular one? Or is it only for the bling? And why would you need an 11-speed version? Sram showed us 7-speed is enough, given that the gears are selected wisely. As far as carbon crank, i think they'll stay alu - they don't look ready to shake things up seriously.

11 speed makes sense for commonality, it means they're no longer putting money into top tier 10spd driveline parts. It also means the top groups can share things like shifters and cassettes with their non-gravity line-up, like Saint/Zee always have.

The 11/7 speed thing is rider preference. Not everybody wants a dedicated DH bike, and Shimano would like to sell those people and OEMs Saint and Zee, so having Saint 11spd parts makes sense, even if they're just rebadged XT or XTR.

Di2 is just awesome. Seriously, try it, it shifts so smooth. Seeing as most people aren't riding their DH bike every day, they can easily charge the thing during the week, while cleaning/prepping for the weekend. Perfect application of e-shifting IMHO. They could even incorporated a "normal button" to quickly get you back to your 1 prefered gear after a sprint or climb with no need to click through 4-5 gears one at a time.

Carbon crank simply isn't happening, you'll see that in their Road groups first.

Jm_ · Feb 15, 2016

M801HD "re-generator brakes" w/stator caliper
M802HD electric drive BB
M803HD seat tube battery

Done.

6thElement · Feb 15, 2016

Dogboy said:
I think so too. I've seen upcoming bikes spec'd with unnamed Shimano components in the SLX price range.

You've definitely said too much.

slimshady · Feb 15, 2016

Dogboy said:
I think so too. I've seen upcoming bikes spec'd with unnamed Shimano components in the SLX price range.

HAB · Feb 15, 2016

maxyedor said:
Di2 is just awesome. Seriously, try it, it shifts so smooth. Seeing as most people aren't riding their DH bike every day, they can easily charge the thing during the week, while cleaning/prepping for the weekend.

I'm blown away with how long the battery lasts. I don't really pay much attention to mileage on my road bike because who cares, but I get a couple months out of a charge, riding at least once a week on average.

Gary · Feb 15, 2016

Ha ha... 8 WHOLE rides?

kidwoo · Feb 15, 2016

HAB · Feb 15, 2016

Gary said:
Ha ha... 8 WHOLE rides?

Ha. Definitely way more than that, my guestimation was a bit crap.

Maybe it's not really that impressive, but relative to smartphones and laptops and shit it feels pretty good.

HAB · Feb 15, 2016

I'd also add that I definitely don't think it's night and day better than cables or anything. It works. So do "normal" derailleurs. It was at most a minor consideration when I bought the bike, and would be a minor consideration for my next one too. I just found a deal on a bike I liked that happened to have it.

Gary · Feb 15, 2016

manhattanprjkt83 · Feb 15, 2016

I've probably already said too much but I like the idea of wireless electronics. We as a forum have a bad tendency towards hating progress but wireless mechs make a ton of sense. The XTR di2 stuff is really good, it's still expensive but quite a few of us will be riding it when it comes down. That said, I don't want anything to do with wires and I doubt any of this will debut with a DH groupo.

manhattanprjkt83 · Feb 15, 2016

HAB said:
I'm blown away with how long the battery lasts. I don't really pay much attention to mileage on my road bike because who cares, but I get a couple months out of a charge, riding at least once a week on average.

Agree'd I don't mind charging my bike once a month or gasp twice. I charge my lights 3 times a week for rides this time of year...

Gary · Feb 15, 2016

manhattanprjkt83 said:
We as a forum have a bad tendency towards hating progress but wireless mechs make a ton of sense.

No. No. They may make a ton of sense to you. And that's great! I wish you all the best with your acceptance of all perceived progress. where will this all end though?
GPS assisted Carbon E-bikes with integrated Di3 wireless gearing and heated seats/grips? Bluetooth ABS braking? Accelerometer, gyro, proximity sensors? Automatic Gnar/steep sensing wireless dropper posts? telemetry controlled electronically adjusted and damped suspension? 4"+ tyres? automatic lighting? Matching fanny packs/luggage?

Why wait for 2017 Shimano?

The future is now...

manhattanprjkt83 · Feb 15, 2016

Gary said:
No. No. They may make a ton of sense to you. And that's great! I wish you all the best with your acceptance of all perceived progress. where will this all end though?
GPS assisted Carbon E-bikes with integrated Di3 wireless gearing and heated seats/grips? Bluetooth ABS braking? Accelerometer, gyro, proximity sensors? Automatic Gnar/steep sensing wireless dropper posts? telemetry controlled electronically adjusted and damped suspension? 4"+ tyres? automatic lighting? Matching fanny packs/luggage?

Why wait for 2017 Shimano?

The future is now...

Whoa, someone's thumb shifter must have failed mid ride tonight. Holy hell.

The next Shimano gravity group? opinions?

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