Dude. Homeboy Gary is rockin the friction shifters set on friction mode and don't you forget it!
The next Shimano gravity group? opinions?
- Thread starter hitar_potar
- Start date
Shifters? What's shifters? Some evil abomination from the japanese/french/italian/-behold- german pagan hells of progress?
Maybe he just got his v brake noodle tangled in his landline, that's prob it, would piss me off too.
You knows it bro...
Don't worry... I'll fully embrace 'lectric controls when I'm ready for one of these cool chick chasing chariots...
You knows it bro...
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Don't worry... I'll fully embrace 'lectric controls when I'm ready for one of these cool chick chasing chariots...
Umm, no, i haven't. But i don't think a Di2 iss the answer for the DHers. Why would you need it if you only really need 6 or 7 or 8 gears which have bigger than usual gaps in between (like the 7-speed Sram)? When DH-ing, you are not really after the swiss-watch-like shifting, you're just after getting the job done as fast as possible. Cable is good enough!
Having a XTR Di2 makes sense on your trail/AM bike, but not on a DH sled.What you mean is, if they go the 7-speed route as Sram, they should make the derailleur 11-speed compatible and the 7-speed cassette as a 11-speed-thin cogs and 11-speed-thin spaces in between. And the only thing 7-speed-dedicated should be the shifter (which, if you don't have, you could replace with a 11-speed one). But not sure on your "normal button" idea.
dura-ace used be available with the option for carbon / alu core hybrid. no longer available, guessing shimano didn't find there to be enough advantage. if someone knows more on this, please chime in.
also, i remember reading somewhere that Shimano is heavy into metallurgy. this may be one of the reasons they haven't dived into carbon the way other companies have.
the big advantage of Di2 that would matter to downhillers, or at least world cup racers, is that it can shift under load better.
Umm, yes, I do want swiss watch like shifting, I don't want missed shifts, I don't want jammed up chains, or frame suck or anything else. I'm racing the clock just like the world cup guys, and my prize might only be a 5th place ribbon or a ride home knowing I didn't take last, but I want my shit to work just the same.Umm, no, i haven't. But i don't think a Di2 iss the answer for the DHers. Why would you need it if you only really need 6 or 7 or 8 gears which have bigger than usual gaps in between (like the 7-speed Sram)? When DH-ing, you are not really after the swiss-watch-like shifting, you're just after getting the job done as fast as possible. Cable is good enough!
What you mean is, if they go the 7-speed route as Sram, they should make the derailleur 11-speed compatible and the 7-speed cassette as a 11-speed-thin cogs and 11-speed-thin spaces in between. And the only thing 7-speed-dedicated should be the shifter (which, if you don't have, you could replace with a 11-speed one). But not sure on your "normal button" idea.
I'm not advocating for or against di2, but I am arguing that I want good shifting.
on to your second point, since switching from 9 speed width chains, gears, cassettes, etc. up to 10 speed I haven't been able to keep chains alive. I have zero desire for shimano to go to an 11 speed compatible even thinner/potentially weaker chain/cassette that could more easily plug with pebbles, mud, shit.
Exactly what I was thinking on the 7-speed set-up, although without the stupid aluminum spacer. Just make a shorter freehub and put fewer gears on the cassette.What you mean is, if they go the 7-speed route as Sram, they should make the derailleur 11-speed compatible and the 7-speed cassette as a 11-speed-thin cogs and 11-speed-thin spaces in between. And the only thing 7-speed-dedicated should be the shifter (which, if you don't have, you could replace with a 11-speed one). But not sure on your "normal button" idea.
No clue if the normal button would catch on, but it would be simple to program on an electronic shifter, unlike experimental mechanical shifters. I would personally like it, but maybe I'm the only one.
Yeah, that's why I said XTR in my post. That Dura Ace carbon crank wasn't any lighter than the aluminum one, and cost a bunch more. Shimano has aluminum forging down way better than anyone else in the industry, so they can take their aluminum cranks a lot further.
Count me in. I'm rooting for gearboxes.
7 years ago I definitely would have agreed, but now I'm not so sure. 1x drivetrains with clutch derailleurs have gotten good enough that I'm pretty happy with the state of the art. Gearboxes are cool, but they're never going to be as light or as efficient as a chain and derailleur, and at this point I don't really think the tradeoff is worth it anymore.
i'll give you that, but all this evolution on drivetrains hasn't changed the fundamental fact that your entire ability to shift gears is dangling off the low back end of the bike and is still prone to damage from trail objects and exposure to the elements. certainly a low risk for any competent rider, but a risk nonetheless.
on the other hand, as all other parts of the bike are getting lighter, we're starting to close in on the point where the weight penalty is moot (and can be offset elsewhere). the biggest hindrance at that point is still efficiency.
Shimano invented the hollow forged crank, I think.
Gear box or not, do you think the actuation will be wireless electronics? It shouldn't matter what the mechanism for movement is...
Yes, I think that's coming.
No, thanks. The only batteries I'd hope to carry when riding a bike in the future would be the ones in my pacemaker.
Has anyone ever tried to make (or made?) a centrifugal clutch drivetrain for a mtn bike?
Yes, and sort of.
The sort of manifested itself as auto shifting 3 speed hubs on 'comfort bikes' a few years ago. They were kind of neat in novelty way.
The full centrifugal thing I saw eons ago pretty much duplicated a snowmobile clutch setup, belt and all. As you can tell by its widespread success and ubiquitous application these days, I'm sure it worked like a champ.
Both of which relied on building speed through pedaling.............obviously a brilliant point of departure for downhill coast racing.
25 years ago my friend's dad bought this complete POS auto shifting bike when he was drunk of off an info-mercial. The freehub was fixed and the freewheel was at the crank. A centrifugal thing on the spokes would pull the derailleur to a higher gear the faster the wheel spun. It was an interesting idea, but if you didn't like the cadence you were at, you were SOL. Plus you were on a walmrat quality mail order bike that was way over priced...
So there was that.
So there was that.
1.
The number of derailuer or hangers I have broken in 30 years of riding bicycles.
Cause:
Unsure, do not recall derailuer striking anything on said run. Qualifying run down "slayer" at Mountain Creek, lots of rocks to jump up and bite things, inexplicably went over the bars at one point during run. Assuming it was not a Just Riding Along failure, but in fact a casualty of a crash. Derailuer survived. Hanger did not.
1.
The number of derailuers and/or hangers broken in 30 years of riding bicycles.
your sample size of 1 is statistically insignificant.
you also apparently missed my note at the end of the paragraph, or are you trying to convey that you are an incompetent rider?
I cannot count on the number of hangers I broke riding our local forest reserve. Lots of tree branches sending the derailleur into the spokes, several side falls with the derailleur hitting a root, a certain guy bumping into my RD...
I guess this doesn't work equally for everyone, but I'd be way happier with nothing dangling off a little piece of aluminium at the rear axle.
We have tons of little sticks that try to do the same at our local trails, lots of old growth that drops tons of deadfall, I guess I've just been lucky.
You apparently don't understand statistics. My sample size is not one, my sample size is 30 years of riding bikes in the woods. What is insignificant is the number of times it's been a problem. *edit* unless you were referring to my sample size of one person, then well, yeah you have a point. But I don't recall many of my friends having derailuer hanger issues on the regular either.
I did not miss your note at the end, I read your post thoroughly. I am not competent or incompetent, I am of average mountain bike skill in my opinion.
I hear your point, I'm just pointing out that for someone who has ridden for a long time and relatively frequently, it's not been a major problem. Maybe it's because I carry a spare hanger with me?
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i understand statistics plenty well. duration is irrelevant. 1 rider = 1 data point. statistically insignificant sample size in terms of the total population of bike riders.
for a lot of people, this isn't in issue, but for a lot of people it is. knock on wood i haven't exploded a derailler in years, but that doesn't mean it can't happen again.
duration is perfectly relevant. The longer the duration, the more miles and more opportunity to ruin said hanger/derailuer.
that doesn't change the fact that 1 rider = 1 data point. all it does is increase that likelihood of occurrence for that particular rider. long duration + low incident rate = low end of the bell curve for this, possibly a statistical outlier.
but now you've got me curious about this subject some more. gonna set up a poll.
but now you've got me curious about this subject some more. gonna set up a poll.
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I guess trail maintenance has a major role here... Ours change a lot when the summer approaches, since the heavy rain really makes the bushes grow to an accelerated pace. We try to schedule maintenance rides as often as possible (usually once a month), but the increasing amount of rain we are getting (and I'm talking year-long here) year after year has certainly got some of our usual riding buddies off the trails.
If my memory doesn't fail me, most of the broken derailleur hangers/rear derailleurs happened to me when I was a young rider, with moar balls than brain, or when I was riding a new trail and pushed the envelope way past my comfort zone. The latest cases were a consequence of "getting used to": once you've ridden the same trails for over 20 years, one tends to hit the cranks harder in order to squeeze a bit more fun off the same known path, leading to tighter turning radius and later braking, and less care when you go through a wet roots section.
However, I still believe gearboxes, in particular the ones derived from encased derailleurs (a la Honda) could have a major impact in the biking industry. Too bad Hayes patented those and threw the designs in a box at the same Area 51 facility where the Ark Of The Alliance resides...
And let's not forget the play every single rear derailleur is bound to develop after some time -could be moar, could be less, depending on the gnarlyness of your environment, but it'll happen. And that is bound to affect the shift quality, and eventually will lead to the pulley cage being sucked into the spokes.
If my memory doesn't fail me, most of the broken derailleur hangers/rear derailleurs happened to me when I was a young rider, with moar balls than brain, or when I was riding a new trail and pushed the envelope way past my comfort zone. The latest cases were a consequence of "getting used to": once you've ridden the same trails for over 20 years, one tends to hit the cranks harder in order to squeeze a bit more fun off the same known path, leading to tighter turning radius and later braking, and less care when you go through a wet roots section.
However, I still believe gearboxes, in particular the ones derived from encased derailleurs (a la Honda) could have a major impact in the biking industry. Too bad Hayes patented those and threw the designs in a box at the same Area 51 facility where the Ark Of The Alliance resides...
And let's not forget the play every single rear derailleur is bound to develop after some time -could be moar, could be less, depending on the gnarlyness of your environment, but it'll happen. And that is bound to affect the shift quality, and eventually will lead to the pulley cage being sucked into the spokes.
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Right, but I don't care about anyone's experience other than my own. Not to sound like a dick, but it's not been a problem for me, so I'm not that worried about it. That's my point.
It's kinda like saying no one should run a certain tire because other people had problems, yet, they've been perfect for you and the conditions in which you ride.
I also included in my comment that my friends don't seem to have frequent issues. My wife and I ride together on most rides and I maintain her bikes for the last 7 years, no issues for her either and she was a beginner when we met.
Neither of my kids have had a problem either.
We all ride a significant amount of trail, as well as DH at bike parks.
Now I am sure I just jinxed myself.
congratulations! you're special! do you want a trophy?
i wasn't talking about just you, but all riders.