gotta go fast to ding rims.
Actual weight 235 grams (per wheel)
^this
There's a reason mud tires are narrow..
They are not narrow. These are the new Minus sizes. 26-, 27.5-, 29-.
"Slice through the slop instead of stayin' on it's top." (TM)
This thread is all over the place but apparently there's still many misconceptions about plus tires from people who haven't ridden them.
Procore has a place, though I don't personally find it very appealing. Yes, it allows you to run <20psi in a standard sized tire, but that's still an unstable set up at higher speeds. The few professional riders I know who use/used it, still ran their usual pressures because that's what works. So Procore becomes a very heavy and expensive back up (that's still prone to failures for various reasons).
Plus tires also allow for stupid low pressures but do better when they're inflated properly. I run my 3.0's at 17 front and 20psi rear. Any less than that and they load and unload unpredictably. At proper pressure, they still add a lot of suppleness to the bike and increase traction (in most cases) while reducing fatigue. They struggle in the mud (the industry needs to try better treads) and they favor plowing over picking lines, but they're way more agile than the detractors try to lead you to believe. Modern plus tires have nothing in common with the Gazzaloddi of the past besides the word "tire" and size "3.0."
Procore has a place, though I don't personally find it very appealing. Yes, it allows you to run <20psi in a standard sized tire, but that's still an unstable set up at higher speeds. The few professional riders I know who use/used it, still ran their usual pressures because that's what works. So Procore becomes a very heavy and expensive back up (that's still prone to failures for various reasons).
Plus tires also allow for stupid low pressures but do better when they're inflated properly. I run my 3.0's at 17 front and 20psi rear. Any less than that and they load and unload unpredictably. At proper pressure, they still add a lot of suppleness to the bike and increase traction (in most cases) while reducing fatigue. They struggle in the mud (the industry needs to try better treads) and they favor plowing over picking lines, but they're way more agile than the detractors try to lead you to believe. Modern plus tires have nothing in common with the Gazzaloddi of the past besides the word "tire" and size "3.0."
The couple of faster riders I've talked to who run Procore have dropped their pressures to the upper teens/low 20s. Granted, they're fast, but not full time pro fast. Mostly what they talk about is how it helps the suspension, not so much the traction, because they don't have issues finding traction.
I'm only going off my experience of a couple of hours on plus size bikes, but I really don't get the hype. Okay, maybe there is more traction at low speed, but its not something I noticed. As far as agility goes, I would say they definitely want to stay upright more than a normal tire, though nowhere near as bad as a true fat bike tire. Going over multiple small bumps they are nice, but again that's down to the tire pressure. When I've experimented with super low pressures on standard tires, it's the same story.
I guess my point is I still don't see why we need yet another tire/rim/frame sizing when all the benefits of that sizing seem to be available with regular tires, without the downsized plus size tires bring.
Last edited:
Kinda like handlebar width?
With some people yes.
I was all about Nathan rennie and greg minnaar getting wider handlebars. Those guys used to look like goons with 28" bars.
But yeah I see 5'6" girls riding 31" bars and are wondering why they're having a hard time moving their bikes around.
I like my HD, but then it's still got little wheels, so what do I know?
I laugh at all the women's bike tests that say they need 750mm bars.
as always, my question is with durability. I think where I ride is well suited to plus tires. (or is it the other way around? plus tires are well suited to where I ride). My only concern is given their "plowability" how durable are they? Are the sidewalls more prone (or at least equally prone) to abrasion and cuts in the rocks? Caus' then they'll need to be beefed up to take the abuse, and they we're back to square one with regards to weight and agility aren't we?
this thread gives me hope.
Long term durability was something I was still improving. There are a lot of different ways to make a tire casing and Plus tires are challenging the tire vendors to explore constructions that they wouldn't have bothered with in the past.
I got some flats early on with our first prototypes, but our latest production tires have been holding up very well for me. I'm in loamy Santa Cruz though. I didn't get enough feedback from the mountain states on our latest improvements to know if we needed to keep improving things.
This is where this all gets so subjective. What's strong enough for me, isn't going to work for everyone else. If you want the most durable tire, you run a 2.3 DH casing on a 21mm rim. I prefer to look for better combinations to suit my desired performance and accept the durability trade offs.
Likewise with Procore and Plus tires. They all have their place under some riders but not under others.
I got some flats early on with our first prototypes, but our latest production tires have been holding up very well for me. I'm in loamy Santa Cruz though. I didn't get enough feedback from the mountain states on our latest improvements to know if we needed to keep improving things.
This is where this all gets so subjective. What's strong enough for me, isn't going to work for everyone else. If you want the most durable tire, you run a 2.3 DH casing on a 21mm rim. I prefer to look for better combinations to suit my desired performance and accept the durability trade offs.
Likewise with Procore and Plus tires. They all have their place under some riders but not under others.
I ride 4.7 tires in the winter, in snow. Other than that, it blows my mind that people on fat and plus tires say they can climb stuff on them that they can't climb on a regular bike. I've tried this many times and my FS "regular" bike blows it away. Unless these guys are taking about loose baby heads on a shallow grade, I just can't see how this is ever possible. These are often the same people that say they are "faster" with a wheel that has a good 2-3lbs of extra rotating mass. The only thing I can think of is these people are so slow that the bike makes very little difference. They would never power up tech anyway or run through a fast jump section.
If we believed these people, the TDF would be won on a fat bike.
If we believed these people, the TDF would be won on a fat bike.
So, I've almost managed to try to put plus size tires (Nobby Nic 2.8) on my 2016 Reign.
Fortunately for me and my bike, I've been told by Schwalbe employee, NN 2.8 are about 75mm high, so they would not fit the fork, nor the chainstay/swingarm.
I also got Procore. Initially, I wanted to use it with NN 2.8, to stabilize the tire.
But now, I am thinking about getting MM 2.5 as super wide tire for my enduro bike. Pity MM 2.5 come in just one version, which weighs about 1400g
Fortunately for me and my bike, I've been told by Schwalbe employee, NN 2.8 are about 75mm high, so they would not fit the fork, nor the chainstay/swingarm.
I also got Procore. Initially, I wanted to use it with NN 2.8, to stabilize the tire.
But now, I am thinking about getting MM 2.5 as super wide tire for my enduro bike. Pity MM 2.5 come in just one version, which weighs about 1400g
Back in like 2005 I put a Sunline V1 on my Bottlerocket and syadasti told me I was only running such a wide bar because Rennie used one. I think it was about 29" wide.
I've done two years on the Derby rims, a lot of scars but no cracks. I know I ride like a pussy but I still think (hope) I am in the top 25 percentile regarding speed and tech...
What trails in Santa Cruz are you riding and experiencing faster times on with 3.0 tires?
I ask because loamy Santa Cruz trails are not a place I associate with spinning out while climbing roots or kitty litter. And on the descents there, the grip is usually so good that sticky rubber isn't even really needed.
Also not aware of much snow or sand dune trails in SC (I hear such terrain is suitable for fat bikes).
I ask because loamy Santa Cruz trails are not a place I associate with spinning out while climbing roots or kitty litter. And on the descents there, the grip is usually so good that sticky rubber isn't even really needed.
Also not aware of much snow or sand dune trails in SC (I hear such terrain is suitable for fat bikes).
Last edited:
I was gonna say SC trails can be ridden on bare rims at a decent rate...it is almost like riding on rubber.
So basically, you either need an e-bike, 8" of suspension on both sides, or 5" tires.
That chainstay length.... holy crap
Don't forget a kickstand.
Will 2016 be the year of 1/2 size?
2.675 is going to go off. Half way between 2.35 and 3.0.
Kid, what do you see the future of it being? I think they will get watered down to a 2.6/2.8 ish spread that will end up being kind of the norm for the trail sector...I agree with you on almost everything you wrote back on page 1 but the fact that the xc/trail guys want the same thing a dh guy wants from a tire...I wish we didn't even have to have this conversation and left our dialed 2.3's alone.
But it's almost there already (finally). We have some really good tires that for the most part, don't disintegrate and weigh a little less.
Dhers sure as shit don't run 2.8" tires. Not fast ones, not by choice. (stupid one off videos of company fast guy going fast on shitty bike for promotion of said bike doesn't count)
The most significant factor in how a bike feels in acceleration, stopping and cornering is the rotational mass of wheels. Rather than chase their bung holes around in a circle with the same construction modes just with "hey look! new sizes y'all!", tire companies need to be refining tread designs and more importantly coming up with better strength to weight ratios for the materials. None of this does that.
As far as where I see it going? I honestly couldn't give a rat's ass. There is so much stupidity going on in the bike industry right now with this kind of crap, I just want to punch everyone I see on a new bike in the face. Somewhere along the lines people making bikes made a conscious effort to stop trying to trickle down the best, and chase the pinnacle of performance, to starting at the bottom and widening the lowest common denominator. And this whole 'growing the sport' bullshit is nothing more than a rattling, tin donation can held by beggars in the industry trying to justify their existence further....hence chasing the dentist money. That's why I said be weary of things that come from the trail bike sector first......they're not performance driven as much as product lines to introduce to a bigger market. It has nothing to do with making mountain biking better and everything to do with chasing new, bigger, and more frequently renewed revenue streams. That's fine, but anyone looking at the majority of trail construction going on right now can see the result......shit like 'flow trails' designed by a guy who rides a fat bike at 5mph. Rad. Thanks for that.
About the only hope I have for this 'movement' is that more people start tearing up tires and realizing that tread designs still matter so maybe we'll end up with lighter tougher tires in a roundabout way. But I really like stuffing the living shit out of supportive tires into ruts. Burping pinner walled 3.0 tires while sliding on the rim while it makes a fart sound just doesn't have the same pizazz.
Basically the same geometry as Nicolai. This is forward thinking.
I think confidence plays a big part. I got better at trusting my skinny tired mtb after riding a fat bike for the winter. I just decided to try lines I was doing on the fatty and to my surprise it worked.
I will say this though 80% of fat bikers (maybe mtb riders in general) have no bike handling skill to start with.
I will say this though 80% of fat bikers (maybe mtb riders in general) have no bike handling skill to start with.
So here's my buddy's set up. Road with him this weekend. I admit, I'm interested. Swiping to right.
WTB Asym i35 rims
really loud, green hubs
Minion WT 2.5 front
HR (normal) 2.5 rear
Procore on F & R 80psi
Bike is newer Intense Tracer 27.5
I think he settled around 17psi. He's 210lbs, rides aggressively and is not slow. Yes, he's an endurbro.
We rode plenty of chunk and fast chunk. He said he felt some rocks hit the procore. But no flats. The HR on the rear rolled a little in the corners, but the front was good. Probably due to the WT up front vs Non-WT on rear. He said the setup totally smoothed out the rocks.
Step in the right direction? IDK...
WTB Asym i35 rims
really loud, green hubs
Minion WT 2.5 front
HR (normal) 2.5 rear
Procore on F & R 80psi
Bike is newer Intense Tracer 27.5
I think he settled around 17psi. He's 210lbs, rides aggressively and is not slow. Yes, he's an endurbro.
We rode plenty of chunk and fast chunk. He said he felt some rocks hit the procore. But no flats. The HR on the rear rolled a little in the corners, but the front was good. Probably due to the WT up front vs Non-WT on rear. He said the setup totally smoothed out the rocks.
Step in the right direction? IDK...
This is exactly what I'm talking about. "Normal" tires and rims, that don't demand new frames, and you can get the same friggin' result as the goddam plus size crap.
Yeah but those derbys aren't particularly light and they aren't particularly wide. I'm talking 45+mm rims. Otherwise, why are you putting 3" tires on 35mm rims again?
To some extent, yes. But if you want to get the current "MUH TRACTION" standard you need to be able to drop your pressure to stupid levels. Which you can do with procore. Basically it's enabling you to be an unskilled idiot with normal tires, rather than buying the new Unskilled Idiot Pro Plus frames and bikes.
Sidenote, was at the lbs yesterday, got to jump on a 6Fattie stumpjumper. Possibly the worst new bike I've ever ridden. Pedaled like a boat anchor. The mismatch from the tire and fork spring rate was noticeable just hopping around the parking lot.
^^^ I like this guy ^^^^
You can stop right there
I just had to quote this.