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Woodworking Help

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,591
7,238
Colorado
I might need to go join a new forum for this, but a lot of you guys are handy and might know how to do some of this stuff. I'm looking at building a bed for Haley and have found a design I like that Wifey will likely approve (because safety!).


http://www.ana-white.com/2012/07/plans/camp-loft-bed-stair-junior-height

The things I would want to add onto this plan are:
- Drawers under the stair platform.
- Storage under the stairs (pullout drawers or plastic containers)
- Desk on the opposite site
- Long board on base of rear verticals to square framing
- Use taller verticals to provide for a taller loft area
- Paint it white without wood pattern showing, just a true smooth white (professional looking).

* Drawers under the platform are where I'm initially stuck. I would close off the back of the under stair area and would want to put in 2 or 3 drawers. I'm not sure how to 1) build drawers properly or 2) how best to mount them.

On issue #1, I assume I should just route .5" above the bottom of the box and put in a base of mdf(?) board. When I'm building the box, what is the best way to frame it so that opening and closing the drawer won't weaken the shape. I was thinking a right-angle metal bracket on the back outside of the box. But I'm not sure about the front, as I don't want the bracket to be visible or in the box to potentially damage things inside (like clothes). I also would want to have a clean face (see no wood pattern white above), so would want to use the mdf(?) board for the front. How best would I attach that to the box? Should I use that as the front of the box or should I make a box and attach a thin piece of mdf and paint it?

On issue #2, I was thinking I should just put a horizontal strut and bolt drawer slides to that. Any better ideas?

* Storage under the stairs I would prefer to have in drawer form. Same thing as the under platform drawers - what would be the best way to build drawers? Is it platform and wheels on the drawers or traditional drawer sliders?

* Painting it in such a way to show a smooth white vs. one showing wood through. I'm assuming that's just a matter of painting layers with a sprayer?

@dan-o
 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,884
449
That thing is rad. If I were doing this, I would build a traditional cabinet box to fit out of 3/4" plywood, build drawer boxes and get some soft close slides (Rockler). Then trim out the box to look how you like either with or without a face frame.

I've adopted this method for building drawers and I love it- you only need a table saw or maybe a router table instead. They are simple, strong and look good. Apple ply is great for drawers:
http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2014/09/19/the-quarter-quarter-quarter-drawer-system/

Finally, use Kreg pocket hole joinery for the main carcass. Minimal tools and clamps, and you could even build your drawers with it if you have to.

Good luck!
 
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stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,591
7,238
Colorado
That thing is rad. If I were doing this, I would build a traditional cabinet box to fit out of 3/4" plywood, build drawer boxes and get some soft close slides (Rockler). Then trim out the box to look how you like either with or without a face frame.

I've adopted this method for building drawers and I love it- you only need a table saw or maybe a router table instead. They are simple, strong and look good. Apple ply is great for drawers:
http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2014/09/19/the-quarter-quarter-quarter-drawer-system/

Finally, use Kreg pocket bike joinery for the main carcass. Minimal tools and clamps, and you could even build your drawers with it if you have to.

Good luck!
Awesome! Thanks. I think I'm going to integrate some aspects of this one too - like the railing:
http://www.ana-white.com/2010/06/loft-bed-small-bookcase-and-desk
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
5,496
3,141
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
Drawers are relatively easy to build. The method 4130bike posted is pretty simple, and I would build out a cabinet like he suggested. However, you can make it even a bit simpler with a pre-milled drawer side. They're cheap from any decent wood store, can come with the dado slot already there for the bottom, and save you a lot of time trying to mill plywood nice and straight. Since the dado is made, I would just use a Keg jig to assemble them and you'll only need the table-saw for the bottom, the Kreg jig will make your life much easier for most of the bed build too. This is a reasonably good explainer of a Kreg joined drawer https://tombuildsstuff.blogspot.com/2013/01/how-to-build-drawer-boxes.html

Definitely use sliders for the drawers. I get mine on Ebay or Amazon.

For paint, start with a bit higher end wood, the extra cash will be well worth it in time savings and finish quality. Clear Pine or Fir would be my first choice, what woods are available and what the cost is a very regional thing, call around to local building and hardwood supply places and see what they've got and what it'll cost you. Being "clear" it wont have any knots, and the straight grain will sand nice and smooth. After that, spray it if you can, ideally with a sandable primer, then a top-coat in the color of your choice. For any plywood, try to use Baltic Birch, it machines and finishes amazingly well. I cheaped out on my garage cabinets and used some lower grade sanded Pine from Home Depot, 100% regret that decision.

Dont use MDF for anything but the drawer bottoms, and even then I vastly prefer Baltic Birch. This goes doubly for kids furniture. MDF looks great when it's new, but it's damn near impossible to keep it looking good long term, between being bumped around, spilled drinks, general wear and tear, screws will pull out, and corners will start of moosh, it will generally start looking like shit in short order. It's also nasty to work with, you'll never get the dust out of either the garage or your nose.

Edit, this is the Kreg jig I use https://www.amazon.com/Kreg-MKJKIT-Mini-Jig-Kit/dp/B00065WPP2/ref=sr_1_4?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1498750535&sr=1-4&keywords=kreg+jig Eventually I'll upgrade to the nicer one, but this thing has gotten me through a whole lot of projects for $20.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,591
7,238
Colorado
Based on how obsessive he got over just refinishing a kids bike frame and fork, I concur. Haley will be headed off to college when he gets her bed "just right".
Seriously, though - have some other poor fucker do the construction.

Use the saved time to ride.
Bikes are awesome, hence the extra time commitment. If the cost makes sense, I will buy something, but as of now it doesn't, so I'll build. We're also likely to be remodeling two bathrooms and putting in build-in shelving in two rooms. I will be using the tools, so if I can do it on my own for cheaper and acquire tools, I will.
 

Beef Supreme

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2010
1,434
73
Hiding from the stupid
I do a ton of woodworking. The advice from 4130 and Maxyedor is solid.

I'd add two things. Download the free version of SketchUp and watch the tutorials to learn how to use it. I draw everything before building it and will save time and money from mistakes. Also, if you want a smooth finish you will need to spray it. You might check to see what a cabinet maker will charge you if you don't have a sprayer.
 

KenW449

Thanos did nothing wrong
Jun 13, 2017
2,704
329
Floating down the whiskey river...
Based on how obsessive he got over just refinishing a kids bike frame and fork, I concur. Haley will be headed off to college when he gets her bed "just right".
To be fair, it turned out really nice and she looks very happy with it.

If you want a smooth finish you will need to spray it. You might check to see what a cabinet maker will charge you if you don't have a sprayer.
I think harbor freight sells cheap sprayers, not sure how well the work though. I'm sure YouTube as videos of it in action
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,591
7,238
Colorado
I do a ton of woodworking. The advice from 4130 and Maxyedor is solid.

I'd add two things. Download the free version of SketchUp and watch the tutorials to learn how to use it. I draw everything before building it and will save time and money from mistakes. Also, if you want a smooth finish you will need to spray it. You might check to see what a cabinet maker will charge you if you don't have a sprayer.
That's a good call on having somebody spraying it. My plan was extensive sanding, primer, sanding, sprayer, sanding, sprayer, etc until smooth.

To be fair, it turned out really nice and she looks very happy with it.

I think harbor freight sells cheap sprayers, not sure how well the work though. I'm sure YouTube as videos of it in action
Thank you, she is. I was looking at a ~$150 Ryobi sprayer. My issue is more figuring out how to make a paint room that is big enough to paint 10ft boards. I was thinking about just using some extra plastic sheet and enclosing on all sides, my patio.
 

CrabJoe StretchPants

Reincarnated Crab Walking Head Spinning Bruce Dick
Nov 30, 2003
14,163
2,484
Groton, MA
Thank you, she is. I was looking at a ~$150 Ryobi sprayer. My issue is more figuring out how to make a paint room that is big enough to paint 10ft boards. I was thinking about just using some extra plastic sheet and enclosing on all sides, my patio.
Just wrap your whole house in newspaper.


It's free.
 

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
21,210
10,009
I have no idea where I am
Bikes are awesome, hence the extra time commitment. If the cost makes sense, I will buy something, but as of now it doesn't, so I'll build. We're also likely to be remodeling two bathrooms and putting in build-in shelving in two rooms. I will be using the tools, so if I can do it on my own for cheaper and acquire tools, I will.
If you really do want to get into woodworking or home improvements then yeah, definitely invest in some tools. But you might want to factor in the time consuming learning curve in your cost analysis. In case you need reminding, every project almost always takes significantly longer than anticipated. And that happens to us pros as well.

My advise as far as a bed goes would be to construct one from lumber that does not require the need for perfect, long, straight cuts. Such as the one you posted that is made from boards similar to a 2x4. Skip the drawer building for now and use/modify a pre-made set from Ikea or some place similar. You'll find the bulk of your time will be devoted to just making those few drawers.

This way you won't need a table saw or a track saw. A good mitre saw, cordless drill, and a palm sander are about all the power tools you would need.
 
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RoboDonkey713

Monkey
Feb 24, 2011
678
462
Maine
Tool question:
If you were picking out a miter saw and/or a portable table saw for <$200 each, what would you go with? I'm not married to any brand when it comes to corded tools.

@AngryMetalsmith @Beef Supreme @maxyedor @4130biker
If you can swing it, get a sliding one. Non sliding miter saws can only cut 6" boards. There have been many times that I needed to cut a miter or an angle on a board larger that 6" and had to get creative.
 

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
21,210
10,009
I have no idea where I am
Tool question:
If you were picking out a miter saw and/or a portable table saw for <$200 each, what would you go with? I'm not married to any brand when it comes to corded tools.

@AngryMetalsmith @Beef Supreme @maxyedor @4130biker
If you're gonna do it don't skimp on tools, spend a little more on a quality tool and you'll save yourself time, money and frustration in the long run. You can get a decent mitre saw for less than $200 if you don't need to cut fancy trim moulding, but a $200 table saw would scare the crap out of me. I like my fingers dammit.

A practical substitute for a table saw is a track saw. I have a Festool TS55 and...it...is...awesome.

For me dust collection is very important and Festool is the best at it hands down. Pricey gear, but you get what you pay for. The Makita version was the other saw I was looking at, at the time.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,394
20,184
Sleazattle
I don't understand the need for a power mitre saw unless you are cutting wood in high volume. A good manual saw will last forever, give you a higher quality cut and you have to painfully stupid to seriously hurt yourself with one.

I happily use a century old one passed down from my grandfather.

 

Beef Supreme

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2010
1,434
73
Hiding from the stupid
Tool question:
If you were picking out a miter saw and/or a portable table saw for <$200 each, what would you go with? I'm not married to any brand when it comes to corded tools.

@AngryMetalsmith @Beef Supreme @maxyedor @4130biker
There are tons of tools where the Harbor freight version is perfectly fine. I recommend dropping some coin on a table saw, sliding compound miter saw and a sander. Also invest in good blades. It may not be what you want to hear but it is good advice.
 

roflbox

roflborx
Jan 23, 2017
3,163
834
Raleigh, NC
I don't understand the need for a power mitre saw unless you are cutting wood in high volume. A good manual saw will last forever, give you a higher quality cut and you have to painfully stupid to seriously hurt yourself with one.

I happily use a century old one passed down from my grandfather.

I have found that once my miter saw is setup to cut things nice and square that it mostly gets used for that. (not fiddling around with circular saw and worrying about cutting straight)
 

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
21,210
10,009
I have no idea where I am
I don't understand the need for a power mitre saw unless you are cutting wood in high volume. A good manual saw will last forever, give you a higher quality cut and you have to painfully stupid to seriously hurt yourself with one.

I happily use a century old one passed down from my grandfather.

 

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
21,210
10,009
I have no idea where I am
Would I be good with an 8.5" if I'm cutting 4x4's? I know that's not going to work for 6x6's.
Not in a single pass, you'd have to flip the workpiece and make a second cut. 4x4s are probably not something you're going to cut a lot of anyway.

Also most sliding mitre saws have a depth stop adjustment that allows for trenching (dados and rabbits).
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
5,496
3,141
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
If you really do want to get into woodworking or home improvements then yeah, definitely invest in some tools. But you might want to factor in the time consuming learning curve in your cost analysis. In case you need reminding, every project almost always takes significantly longer than anticipated. And that happens to us pros as well.
The learning curve makes the kid's bed a perfect learning project IMHO. Lets face it, it's getting sold on Craigslist in 4-5 years tops, because kids are assholes and they grow just to piss you off and force you to buy them new clothes. He won't have to live with his mistakes for very long. Screwing up a bathroom remodel, that's a different story, I'm still living with mistakes committed by the previous owner of my house.

I agree on designing around common lumber sizes, I have the ability to rip long strips, and still avoid it as much as possible. You can also cheat a bit with the pre-fab drawer sides I mentioned earlier, if you need/want plywood for whatever reason, but need a long strip, just flip it around so the dado is hidden.

As for what tools to buy, I'd honestly skip the table-saw for now. A cheap job-site saw is okay and I've used the crap out of mine, but for the bed, and most projects around the house, I would invest in a good circular saw, a good blade for said circular saw, and build a track for it. I'll post pics of mine if you need them, but for ripping sheet goods, unless you have a real table saw, the circular saw is safer and can be more accurate. If you decide you need the table saw, I have this one https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-15-Amp-10-in-Carbide-Tipped-Table-Saw/50056619 It's about as good as most small saws, better than the really weekend-warrior-ish stuff like Ryobi, but a lot less expensive than Dewalt, or Rigid.

For the chop saw, I've been pretty impressed with Kobalt stuff from Lowes (I have a Kobalt table saw, and used their miter saws plenty), I'd pick up one of their 12" saws, and they'll probably be on sale this weekend. Rigid are also very good inexpensive saws, I have one of their 10" saws, and would say it's nicer than the Kobalt, but also a bit more expensive. I prefer a 10" saw because they're easier to move around and store, but since you're probably only going to want to own 1, get the 12" so you can do tall base and crown. I have a 10" Rigid and just gave away my old worn out 12" sliding DeWalt, probably picking up a Bosch to replace it, unless I can talk myself into the Festool.

You don't need super high end tools, you just need decent ones, since you're going to be doing other house projects it'll be well worth it to avoid Harbor Freight. You'll get your money's worth out of slightly more expensive, but infinitely better tools.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,136
13,308
Portland, OR
I bought a table saw off CL about 3 years ago (Royobi job site portable), I have used it a couple times, and it's been buried in the garage ever since. Last year I got tired of my crap Harbor Freight cordless drill and got a new Porter Cable drill/circular/reciprocating set. I bought a cheap clamp on guide and now use my small circular saw with a few different blades for damn near everything.

The tablesaw is great, I just don't have a spot for it that makes it easy to use. It is way easier to just grab my little saw and guide (or just freehand it) and let it rip. :rofl:
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,679
1,725
chez moi
does Ikea not exist in colorado? :confused:
We got an Ikea loft bed with storage and a desk under it and like it a lot...probably spent as much for it as I would have for materials and definitely for time...

But I am also super-incompetent when it comes to crafting something that will be seen by other people.

One cool thing I did do, and I'd recommend for you, Stoney, when this is all done: Hidden LED strip lighting. Pretty cheap, easy to install/wire, and looks really neat to have glowing light coming from behind the structure. We got some of the RGBs with a remote, and she can dial up whatever color and changing pattern she wants, from full-rave to soothing slow shifts to a nice solid white. (superbrightleds.com)