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Speed balanced geo....Transition

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
very interested in this. Also interested that dcamp sez not all fork manufacturers are building 51mm offset DH forks. I hope that means non-MTBRd 29er forks will come down the pipe. Handling is simply better on MTBs with shorter offset at speed. I'm not sure I've found a situation where that isn't true, except for very slow speeds.
 

Metamorphic

Monkey
May 12, 2015
274
177
Cackalack
she looks good, at least that is confirmed.

Assuming 175mm cranks, you can measure out about 178mm of exposed stanchions...so likely this puppy has a 170 36 bolted up to it. Sweet. Will be watching for rear travel and more deets.....

 

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
1,993
716
So basically they brought their bikes up to date with "modern geometry" and implemented Gary Fisher's "Genesis geometry" from 1996 on the fork.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
I think that's the opposite. G2 genesis geometry gave us 51mm offset 29er forks, which makes the bike handle fast, or "nimbly" but that huge offset contributes to wheel flop and feels fucked up at speed. what tranny is doing is shortening the offset so bikes don't feel retarded anymore, even though that's how Gary Fisher and MTBR want them to feel.

that's my takeaway. I remember going from an avalanche 65mm offset fork to a boxxer (38mm?) and the difference was amazing. So much more control, so much less wheel flop. the head angle went down at the same time, so that's why i don't think I noticed the change in steering "Speed"
 

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
23,928
14,450
where the trails are
she looks good, at least that is confirmed.

Assuming 175mm cranks, you can measure out about 178mm of exposed stanchions...so likely this puppy has a 170 36 bolted up to it. Sweet. Will be watching for rear travel and more deets.....

I can't be sure from that picture, but he appears to be utilizing a new Enduro Wrist Strap® on his wrist to carry a package of Taco Bell hot sauce.

It's the latest trend in transition stage nutrition.

I've said too much....
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
Isn't fox the only one that IS?


Big offsets on forks work well climbing but compromise dh. Just like bigger wheels.
I dunno. Of the two that seem to actually bringing 29er dh forks to market, his quote was that not "all" were bringing high offset forks. So I guess that means that the RS DH fork won't be 51mm.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I dunno. Of the two that seem to actually bringing 29er dh forks to market, his quote was that not "all" were bringing high offset forks. So I guess that means that the RS DH fork won't be 51mm.
I'm not talking about theoretical, yet to be available forks, fox 40s for 27.5 forks are 52mm. Given their apparent thinking on offsets for wheelsizes, those 49 forks must be like 109mm.

The 27.5 boxxers are something like 48, so not far off.
 

dcamp29

Monkey
Feb 14, 2004
589
63
Colorado
I've done some switching between an 51 and 42 offset fork on the same bike...


the good:
-calmer steering (like Lars says)
-better front wheel traction (I think because the wheel is closer/more underneath you, similar to running a longer stem)
-more stability all around

the bad:
-heavier/floppier steering on climbs (I can deal because my arms are super strong :))
-much harder to ride with no hands when going slow and trying to eat or put on a jacket

It's definitely an improvement- the cornering is awesome.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
the bad:
-heavier/floppier steering on climbs (I can deal because my arms are super strong :))
-much harder to ride with no hands when going slow and trying to eat or put on a jacket
This is what's making me roll my eyes a bit at those press releases *ahem* I mean 'articles'.

Everything, literally everything about that 'system' is making the bike calmer at speed, which in turn is going to make the bikes super laggy at 4mph up steep switchbacks etc. They're claiming bike bikes handle better going uphill but it could only be a product of steeper seat tubes. The actual steering is still going to suck.

I've mismatched a ton of 27.5 and 26" stuff the last 4 years, dh and trailbikes. I actually LIKE the way greater offset forks climb because they sharpen up at really low speeds.

I'm glad someone's getting away from this exponential offset growth with wheelsize though. The dh forks have suffered.
 

dcamp29

Monkey
Feb 14, 2004
589
63
Colorado
I've mismatched a ton of 27.5 and 26" stuff the last 4 years, dh and trailbikes. I actually LIKE the way greater offset forks climb because they sharpen up at really low speeds.
so you're saying you want an on-the-fly adjustable offset fork? hahaahaha
 

'size

Turbo Monkey
May 30, 2007
2,000
338
AZ
I figure an eliptical cam in the dropouts should do it. Just kick the wheel when you get to the top of a hill.
if we're going to do this, do it right. add it to the remote that simultaneously raises and lowers your saddle and adjusts your suspension settings. three birds...

also i don't like the shape of the rocker on this bike.
 

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
1,993
716
A flip-chip sort of thing like a lot of companies do with the rear suspension that changes bb height/STA. The chip can be flipped to fore/aft positions! Brilliant!
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,232
20,016
Sleazattle
if we're going to do this, do it right. add it to the remote that simultaneously raises and lowers your saddle and adjusts your suspension settings. three birds...

also i don't like the shape of the rocker on this bike.
I've got the patent filed...
 

Cerberus75

Monkey
Feb 18, 2017
520
194
very interested in this. Also interested that dcamp sez not all fork manufacturers are building 51mm offset DH forks. I hope that means non-MTBRd 29er forks will come down the pipe. Handling is simply better on MTBs with shorter offset at speed. I'm not sure I've found a situation where that isn't true, except for very slow speeds.
Even at slower speeds, I'm naturally going to react slower, 51 still feels fast, I just orders a 46 offset crown to solve this. Right before this article came out. I'm on a Riot and the twitchy steering at speed is my only complaint.
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
5,496
3,140
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
Most people suck at climbing anyway, HTA, fork offset, seat tube angle, and sluggish steering make no difference when pushing your bike.

Not getting nearly as pumped on marketing hype as they'd like me to be, but I love the steeper seat tube angle. That's the dumbest shit the lizard people have done, especially with the advent of dropper posts. I don't want me effective top tube to grow and shrink by a foot simply because you failed at suspension design and put a 45 degree seat tube on the thing.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,232
20,016
Sleazattle
Most people suck at climbing anyway, HTA, fork offset, seat tube angle, and sluggish steering make no difference when pushing your bike.

Not getting nearly as pumped on marketing hype as they'd like me to be, but I love the steeper seat tube angle. That's the dumbest shit the lizard people have done, especially with the advent of dropper posts. I don't want me effective top tube to grow and shrink by a foot simply because you failed at suspension design and put a 45 degree seat tube on the thing.
You rang?

 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator

Oooh good one! :D

Come on man, you really saying those bikes don't steer slow going slow uphill? I'm all about what they're after with forks but they didn't call it slow speed balanced geometry. I'm not bummed on it at all, I think it's rad but it's hard to swallow that it's BETTER climbing as far as steering. I don't doubt it feels better being further forward over the BB, but with steering alone.........better? That front end is still getting pushed forward with the headangle and longer front center, regardless of a few mm of fork offset.
 
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Beast

Turbo Monkey
May 23, 2002
1,579
0
Where the riding is good
Oooh good one! :D

Come on man, you really saying those bikes don't steer slow going slow uphill? I'm all about what they're after with forks but they didn't call it slow speed balanced geometry. I'm not bummed on it at all, I think it's rad but it's hard to swallow that it's BETTER climbing as far as steering. I don't doubt it feels better being further forward over the BB, but with steering alone.........better?
What I said is what I experienced: "Pointed uphill, tight switchbacks often present a challenge for many riders. SBG's smooth arcs once again came into play here, never once flopping. Depending on the turn, if it does start to dive in it seems to gently guide you in the direction you wanted to go. We found it easier to maintain balance even at slow speeds while pedaling uphill."

And do you of all people honestly give a damn about riding at super slow speeds? Maximize the fun, baby.

"Switchacks = woodland based crimes against humanity"
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Oh god no, I'm stoked on this kind of stuff because it prioritizes what matters....descents.

But when I hear 'smooth arc', that sounds an awful like super slow steering that you need to fall into the turn to keep the bike upright. I've pedaled long 63 degree headangle bikes uphill before that most certainly are not 'better' climbing than something shorter in the front end and way steeper........ and that's what it sounds like you're describing.

You've ridden the whole package, I haven't. I just have a hard time believing that the climbing aspect of these bikes isn't compromised when we're talking JUST about steering itself.
 

Beast

Turbo Monkey
May 23, 2002
1,579
0
Where the riding is good
Oh god no, I'm stoked on this kind of stuff because it prioritizes what matters....descents.

But when I hear 'smooth arc', that sounds an awful like super slow steering that you need to fall into the turn to keep the bike upright. I've pedaled long 63 degree headangle bikes uphill before that most certainly are not 'better' climbing than something shorter in the front end and way steeper........ and that's what it sounds like you're describing.

You've ridden the whole package, I haven't. I just have a hard time believing that the climbing aspect of these bikes isn't compromised when we're talking JUST about steering itself.
I'll do some shitty back-to-back climbs for comparison in our next feature, just for you.
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,998
702
SLO
When checking out a new system, isn't that kind of the point?

Comparisons?

I'm not bagging on ya man, I'm just you know....discussing vital content. :D
That is exactly what stop watches are for. It is proof that cannot be argued. But it may anger some industry types in the long run.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I don't know, even that's not bulletproof. People get tired/better at riding a section after a few times etc.....

Personally, I don't even care about times climbing really, I already know these bikes are an improvement descending because I've swapped in this kind of stuff on my own bikes, including forks with different offsets. It's just that every one of them compromised climbing when they benefitted descending. Scooting the rider further forward certainly helps though. Something like a scout with this setup would be rad.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,853
9,557
AK
I'm looking for static balanced stability for the ultimate in track stands while I wait at stoplights.