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Metamorphic

Metamorphic

Monkey
May 12, 2015
274
177
Cackalack
@Udi the complete build is 15kg, and the listed 4kg weight appears without shock (they sell the frame bare without it). Looking at the build kit on their complete, to get to a 15kg rolling weight, that frame weight seems reasonable. Their build isn't overly heavy.

I have a buddy who recently got a Furious and is pretty stoked on it. Good golly just checking out the frame page for that bike, only $1200 US. 4.2kg. Wow.

Also Udi, while we're on this...what are your thoughts on the linkage driven single pivot of the Meta AM 4.2 and this HPP on the SX?
 
Kevin

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Sep 6, 2004
4,540
1,007
In Holland sticking my finger in a dike...
Been riding Aosta Valley trails and the Pila bikepark all week on my Commencal Meta. I found it to be extremely capable of handling jumps as well as rough stuff. It was the first time I rode the small bike on these types of trails in stead of my dh bike and I was very pleasantly surprised.

No doubt in my mind that Supreme will eat up pretty much anything you throw at it...
 
Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
Metamorphic said:
Also Udi, while we're on this...what are your thoughts on the linkage driven single pivot of the Meta AM 4.2 and this HPP on the SX?
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Commencal always have really nice suspension in my experience, nice progression, no awful digressive humps at the start of the travel, just good stuff.

Most of my riding experience is on the V4 DH frame (the last one I rode was actually Brannigan's silver WC edition - beautiful bike) and I found them quite good. Theoretically the flaw on these designs is that they exhibit higher brake squat (thanks to the high single pivot raising the IC) so they do tend to be a bit harsher under brakes. I don't think it's a dealbreaker but worth noting. I also don't like the deep downtube hump on these bikes as I have hit other frames there hard in the past, but this may just be me.

I haven't ridden the Meta 4.2 but all numbers look good to me. Good progressive LR curve, good AS curve, maybe a touch high on brake squat but acceptable.

I usually like their geometry a lot too (aside from usually having to go up a size), but personally I would have made this one a bit lower and slacker (especially adding what djjohnr just mentioned). The numbers are all out in the open though, so I'm sure everyone can decide for themselves.

Metamorphic said:
@Udi the complete build is 15kg, and the listed 4kg weight appears without shock (they sell the frame bare without it).
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The pricing is definitely excellent, but 4kg really should be the peak for a modern full-blown alloy DH frame, for a bike with less travel like this one I feel it's a bit high (at least for my standards, which honestly aren't particularly high for frame weights). For reference an alloy reign is ~2.9 from memory and for those with deep pockets a v10cc is in the same ballpark. My current alloy DH frame (large, 8.25" travel) is 3950g w/o shock.

Again though, the number is there, and may not be a concern for you/others.
 
Nick

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,021
14,630
where the trails are
Total travel thing aside, I'm as comfortable doing dumb things on my RFX as my first old DHR.
I've done days at Keystone and rough shuttles on the RFX and though not nearly as fast as the downhill bike it was totally capable.
 
Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
Jm_ said:
I don't see what is different about the dime-a-dozen German horst-links.
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Yeah the Euros certainly have a boner for putting horst links on everything after the Specialized patent expired, apparently no one informed them that FSR was basically a huge marketing scam.

With that said, "our" bikes are very expensive there and those alternative brands give them an affordable option (spent last summer riding with some of ze Germans) so they have their place. It's good they're improving, less money spent on bikes = more money for riding holidays, and it sucks having to spend twice as much just to own the exact same bike.
 
Sandro

Sandro

Terrified of Cucumbers
Nov 12, 2006
3,224
2,537
The old world
Jm_ said:
Cube, Liteville, etc., I don't see what is different about the dime-a-dozen German horst-links. It's kind of similar to how they can't get over David Hasselhoff IMO.
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Are we doing the four-bar A kinda looks like four-bar B thing? I really dislike this particular frame layout solely on aesthetic gounds as well and whille neither brand is for me, they cater to very different customers. Cubes are absolutely everywhere and are for people who aren't really into bikes and will buy whatever their closest dealer has on the floor. They do offer pretty good value to the non discerning though.

Litevilles are rare, expensive and are made for the kind of orthodontist who wants an exclusive, overengineered German bike, but prefers shaving grams of his frame and getting castrated by a rocker link over the more industrial look and robustness of a Nicolai.

And I'm sorry, but the whole Hasselhoff thing is more indicative of Americans' inability to learn more than three cliches per nation than anything else. There is such a treasure trove of tastelessness in German popular culture it's quite puzzling that this one from a quarter century ago is the one that stuck. The dude was popular for a few months while Scooter has been selling out stadia for over two decades, Volksmusik continues to exist and third rate American artists like Anastacia top the charts.
 
Sandro

Sandro

Terrified of Cucumbers
Nov 12, 2006
3,224
2,537
The old world
Udi said:
Yeah the Euros certainly have a boner for putting horst links on everything after the Specialized patent expired, apparently no one informed them that FSR was basically a huge marketing scam.

With that said, "our" bikes are very expensive there and those alternative brands give them an affordable option (spent last summer riding with some of ze Germans) so they have their place. It's good they're improving, less money spent on bikes = more money for riding holidays, and it sucks having to spend twice as much just to own the exact same bike.
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Most brands have been using horst links for a long time since until recently, none of them exported the States and didn't need to worry about the patent. And Specialized pretty much paid for their marketing by convincing customers on this side of the pond as well that brake jack will probably kill you.

The interesting thing about Cube is that they are not a direct sales brand. Again, i wouldn't touch their bikes and neither would most serious riders, but if i had to compare their market penetration to brands available in the States, only Specialized, Trek and maybe Giant can compare. You can get them in most bikeshops but their prices are on par with the more recent brands distributed online, so they manage to shift a ton of bikes.
For the more involved riders, the likes of Commencal, YT, Propain and to a lesser extent Canyon and Radon offer really good value and even have some brand appeal if that's important to you.
 
kidwoo

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
42,146
13,340
Squirtin ketchup n' mustard on charred flesh
Sandro said:
And I'm sorry, but the whole Hasselhoff thing is more indicative of Americans' inability to learn more than three cliches per nation than anything else. There is such a treasure trove of tastelessness in German popular culture it's quite puzzling that this one from a quarter century ago is the one that stuck.
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Would this be accurate? I know there's a better compound word out there.
notjustthehoff.JPG




Don't kid yourself. I've seen plenty of brits making hoff jokes too.

#notfakenews
 
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Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
Yeah fair point, guess they have existed for a while but countries outside EU just didn't see them as much.

It'd be nice to see them branch out and try some different designs (particularly because complete triangulation of the rear offers structural and weight benefits), most brands are so expensive these days - everyone is chasing the "expensive = high-end" image and consumers are suckers for it too unfortunately, perhaps moreso outside of the EU. I think Giant is one of the very few brands offering a high quality and high performing product (all aspects considered, including suspension / geometry / frame weight) at reasonable pricing since Iron Horse disappeared.

I like what Commencal is doing - good designs at very reasonable prices in a direct sales model including frame-only options. I hope we'll see more brands doing that in the future.
 
Sandro

Sandro

Terrified of Cucumbers
Nov 12, 2006
3,224
2,537
The old world
kidwoo said:
Would this be accurate? I know there's a better compound word out there.
View attachment 125991
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Haven't seen that particular genre mix yet, but my travels both physical and digital have taught me that southern Europeans are far more obsessed with the sphincter and everything that passes through it. Germans are more about disgusting orgies, horrible tans and hair dyes. And no one can compete with the Scandinavians in the Metal department.
 
jstuhlman

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
16,671
13,010
Cackalacka du Nord
death metal. scat. hasselhoff...and i just thought someone had finally crabonized the banshee scythe and threw some pivots out back. silly me. you guise are freaking visionaries.
 
slimshady

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
Dec 20, 2007
5,405
3,256
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...
How about the east Yurp niche brands, such as Antidote and others doing fully triangulated rear ends? I know many fall into catalog frame rebranding -a la Rock Machine- but many others do pack moar meat into their product line in order to be able to compete with the big 'Murikan ones.

Mondraker might fall into this last category even when they are Spaniards.
 
Nick

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,021
14,630
where the trails are
Nick said:
Total travel thing aside, I'm as comfortable doing dumb things on my RFX as my first old DHR.
I've done days at Keystone and rough shuttles on the RFX and though not nearly as fast as the downhill bike it was totally capable.
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No connection to seller, but if anyone in SoCal is looking for a large RFX there is brand new frame on pinkbike for a really nice price.
 
Electric_City

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
1,994
716
I'm pretty damn smart and cultural too. When it comes to Germany, Hasselhoff isn't even part of their culture anymore.
-Octberfest
-Beer
-Veenerschnitzle
-Bratwurst
-VW
-Ramstein
And lastly, if it weren't for them, we'd never have such a great movie/musical as The Sound of Music.







Then Hasselhoff.
 
blindboxx2334

blindboxx2334

Turbo Monkey
Mar 19, 2013
1,340
101
Wets Coast
Udi said:
Yeah the Euros certainly have a boner for putting horst links on everything after the Specialized patent expired, apparently no one informed them that FSR was basically a huge marketing scam.
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Werent there a couple of horst link bikes before the patent expired? Lappy and KTM come to mind. Not sure if the patent laws are different in tea and crumpet land, or if they had to work out a deal with spesh.
 
blindboxx2334

blindboxx2334

Turbo Monkey
Mar 19, 2013
1,340
101
Wets Coast
Metamorphic said:
Dude. $3700 US with good boing sticks (Lyrik + Super Deluxe coil), XO1 Eeeeaaagggllleeee, Codes, and claimed 31.5 lbs. Say what? Wow.

Won't ship to US or CAN? Hmmm. Rad looking bike for sure.
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is it just me or is that shock photo shopped in that link??

sorry for not multiquoting. I can never get it to work.
 
Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
blindboxx2334 said:
Leave my boy Dave out of this, he was AWESOME in the spongebob movie.
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Hahaha, this is ALL I could think of every time someone mentioned it here.
I feel like we'd super get along irl. I love the ending song too.

blindboxx2334 said:
Werent there a couple of horst link bikes before the patent expired? Lappy and KTM come to mind. Not sure if the patent laws are different in tea and crumpet land, or if they had to work out a deal with spesh.
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I think it only applied in the US and it expired a while ago now - also maybe Specialized were too busy suing someone else at the time. They hired an extra lawyer after this slip up.
 
mykel

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,097
3,817
sw ontario canada
US patent only.
The rest of the world knew it was not patent worthy, prior art and all that.
Horst bikes were available in Canada and Europe for the entire time special-ed was sue-happy in teh US.
If memory serves, bikes going to the US ended up with faux bar instead of horst.
 
aenema

aenema

almost 100% positive
Sep 5, 2008
306
111
Hasselhoff has a fond spot in my heart from his contribution to Kung Fury. Available on youtube, he did the sound track and there is a bonus music video that is so sweet. I grew up on Knight Rider but his roles in that pale compared to the awesome that is Kung Fury.
 
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