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FlipSide

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,384
818
My "Cool Story Bro" addition to the water bottle debate:

I have not ridden a mtb with a water bottle for at least 15 years and I never really understood the people claiming they can't ride with a backpack/Camelbak. A backpack never bothered me and I also like the protection it provides in a crash. I also find it important to carry all my stuff when I ride and with the $$$ we throw away to get light bikes, I'm not interested to strap water, tubes, tools and safety accessories on my bike.

The problem is that I have a bad back and I generally get lumbar sprains 2-3 times per year. When I got back on the bike after my last episode, it occured to me that I was feeling much better at the end of the day with an empty pack that was ~2.0kg lighter. Duh! Thankfully, my new bike has place for a water bottle so I tried it this weekend. I can't believe the difference it made. I'm keeping the backpack for the tools and stuff...but I think I'm now in the No Water Bottle Mount = No Sale crew.
 
Nick

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,027
14,639
where the trails are
Same here. My go-to lunch ride can be done with just a bottle (if I pre-drink) and its not too scorching outside. I love not having a pack on my back, much cooler and comfortable. I tried a fanny pack and let's just say I need to loose some lbs before that is a comfortable option. Gotta have room for a bottle, fo sho.
 
Bikael Molton

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,022
1,154
El Lay
I don’t have a cage mount, so on any ride under 1.5hrs and 10mi I use a single bottle in my ass pack. I’m probably drinking 20oz of water in the car just before and after the ride.

Longer rides I take a 3L Camelbak backpack cause I LIVE IN AN EFFIN DESERT.

Don’t get me wrong, all my past days at bike parks makes me love riding unencumbered by packs.

That said, the current fashion against backpacks goes hand in hand with enduro 1/2 helmets with goggles. I’m seeing a ton of riders who really should be wearing full faces for some of the gnarlier trails here.

Whatever, wear what you want to wear...
 
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slyfink

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,319
5,072
Ottawa, Canada
FlipSide said:
My "Cool Story Bro" addition to the water bottle debate:

I have not ridden a mtb with a water bottle for at least 15 years and I never really understood the people claiming they can't ride with a backpack/Camelbak. A backpack never bothered me and I also like the protection it provides in a crash. I also find it important to carry all my stuff when I ride and with the $$$ we throw away to get light bikes, I'm not interested to strap water, tubes, tools and safety accessories on my bike.

The problem is that I have a bad back and I generally get lumbar sprains 2-3 times per year. When I got back on the bike after my last episode, it occured to me that I was feeling much better at the end of the day with an empty pack that was ~2.0kg lighter. Duh! Thankfully, my new bike has place for a water bottle so I tried it this weekend. I can't believe the difference it made. I'm keeping the backpack for the tools and stuff...but I think I'm now in the No Water Bottle Mount = No Sale crew.
Click to expand...
I got myself a bottle cage and bottle over the summer. I installed it on my bike, with a side-mounted pump, a spare tube strapped to the frame, and my multi-tool, leatherman, valve-core remover, and tire levers in a small under-saddle pouch. I tried it out on a ride where I know I can refill my bottle mid-ride. It was a rainy/misty/humid day. I guess it was more slightly comfortable, but rides where I can refill my bottle are pretty limited. and having the pump side-strapped was a pain in the ass, because the pump really rubbed my frame as it bounced around. If I'm going to have to carry a fanny-pack for extra water, I'd just as soon wear a backpack and keep every neat and tidy in one place. the pack wasn't so bad the next time I went riding. so IME, going packless wasn't worth the effort. I might try it again when its cool out and rides are shorter and I drink less water. maybe.
 
toodles

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,502
4,750
Australia
Even with a 3L camelbak, I'll often run an electrolyte mix in a bottle as well particularly on hotter days (Queensland summers are ridiculous). No bottle cage is a bummer on any bike that isn't going to live in a shuttle vehicle or bike park.
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,248
7,695
I tried a water bottle. I ejected said bottle on the first jump. I'll live with the Camelbak.
 
slimshady

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
Dec 20, 2007
5,410
3,265
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...
Thanks to Da Lizzurrds, we are hitting 40 Celsius for almost two months now, during summer. I sweat like a pig in a slaughterhouse, and I don't overheat very often since I don't cinch my Camelback mule as if I was trying to make it a tattoo on my back. As @toodles I do usually leave the house with a bottle of electrolyte drink in an insulated envelope, inside the backpack. It helps me to leave a nice salty layer on my jersey, and also stops me from dehydrating.
 
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djjohnr

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,011
1,704
Northern California
FlipSide said:
My "Cool Story Bro" addition to the water bottle debate:

I have not ridden a mtb with a water bottle for at least 15 years and I never really understood the people claiming they can't ride with a backpack/Camelbak. A backpack never bothered me and I also like the protection it provides in a crash. I also find it important to carry all my stuff when I ride and with the $$$ we throw away to get light bikes, I'm not interested to strap water, tubes, tools and safety accessories on my bike.

The problem is that I have a bad back and I generally get lumbar sprains 2-3 times per year. When I got back on the bike after my last episode, it occured to me that I was feeling much better at the end of the day with an empty pack that was ~2.0kg lighter. Duh! Thankfully, my new bike has place for a water bottle so I tried it this weekend. I can't believe the difference it made. I'm keeping the backpack for the tools and stuff...but I think I'm now in the No Water Bottle Mount = No Sale crew.
Click to expand...
Same here. Bad back, tried water bottle on the bike and back felt better. Now I have an xl water bottle and tube on the trail bike, with just tools, wallet, phone and keys in the backpack on most rides. If I need additional water I still can supplement with the backpack bladder. My back is much happier for it.
 
Electric_City

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
1,994
716
mykel said:
Hey I was hoping for a new DH bike but ended up finding a CX bike instead - not quite what I was looking for.

How the F* do you think I feel. :disgust:

My Podium is Noel's final no-serial number prototype from 2013 and I either spend a bunch of $ for a full rebuild or I find me a new DH bike. I really like the Podium for what and how I ride, but at 6'2" would seriously like to goto something with non-micro wheelz.
Plus finding 26" rims and tires is getting a bit tough unless you like the excess weight of what is still available compared to the new generation of rims etc.

Fucking first world problems. :busted:
Click to expand...
I have some Syncros DS32's if you'd like. Handled me for 7 years and have no dents, bends or dings. Anyone interested can pm me
 
Nick

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,027
14,639
where the trails are
mykel said:
Hey I was hoping for a new DH bike but ended up finding a CX bike instead - not quite what I was looking for.

How the F* do you think I feel. :disgust:

My Podium is Noel's final no-serial number prototype from 2013 and I either spend a bunch of $ for a full rebuild or I find me a new DH bike. I really like the Podium for what and how I ride, but at 6'2" would seriously like to goto something with non-micro wheelz.
Plus finding 26" rims and tires is getting a bit tough unless you like the excess weight of what is still available compared to the new generation of rims etc.

Fucking first world problems. :busted:
Click to expand...
since you're open to excess weight, you can have 2-3 ex823s for the cost of shipping :D
 
S

Sov

Chimp
Jan 1, 2008
73
19
Adelaide, Australia
I don't think I have posted here for years but this water bottle talk has me excited.

I recently moved to a house with trails behind the back fence and got sick of filling up a camelbak every time I wanted to go for a quick ride. I went for a pedal one day with just a bottle and it was a revelation. Now I'm trying to work out ways to stash tubes/tools/pump etc without making everything look ghetto. Current solution is an adapter to shift the bottle cage forward to make room for a tube strapped to it. I think this looks neater than a tube randomly strapped to the top tube or whatever. See photo.

I managed to find a Giant mini pump that is 21mm OD and 130mm long and fits perfectly in my steerer tube, so next job is to design up a 3d printed plug to hold it in place. Then the mini tool and phone go into my jersey/shorts pocket and job done.

I'll still use a camelbak in summer (because Australia) but for shorter rides, the bottle is the way to go.
 

Attachments

Gary

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,631
5,547
UK
Sov said:
I don't think I have posted here for years but this water bottle talk has me excited.

I recently moved to a house with trails behind the back fence and got sick of filling up a camelbak every time I wanted to go for a quick ride. I went for a pedal one day with just a bottle and it was a revelation. Now I'm trying to work out ways to stash tubes/tools/pump etc without making everything look ghetto. Current solution is an adapter to shift the bottle cage forward to make room for a tube strapped to it. I think this looks neater than a tube randomly strapped to the top tube or whatever. See photo.

I managed to find a Giant mini pump that is 21mm OD and 130mm long and fits perfectly in my steerer tube, so next job is to design up a 3d printed plug to hold it in place. Then the mini tool and phone go into my jersey/shorts pocket and job done.

I'll still use a camelbak in summer (because Australia) but for shorter rides, the bottle is the way to go.
Click to expand...
I really can't get excited over a water bottle. But please post moar pics of that craftworks idler bike
 
HardtailHack

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,721
5,604
I used to be happy with my Deuter Air Comfort pack but after breaking both collarbones only one strap made contact with a shoulder and Camelbacks are hot and uncomfortable. I bought a Salomon something something and it's pretty hot on your back but it has no real structure so it sits on my wonky shoulders well, I use that when a bottle isn't enough.
I think the only bike I'd buy without a bottle cage would be a Nicolai ION G13, those things just look freaking epic, 130mm travel and a 64.5deg HA.
 
S

Sov

Chimp
Jan 1, 2008
73
19
Adelaide, Australia
Gary said:
I really can't get excited over a water bottle. But please post moar pics of that craftworks idler bike
Click to expand...
Here's a quick garage photo. It's built up with a 170mm Vengeance Coil, Monarch Plus, XT/XTR drivetrain and ancient SLX cranks. Wheels are ARC27s on Hope Pro4s. Also has a -2 degree angleset.

I moved from a second gen Spitfire to this, and transferred across the DB Inline until it failed, replaced with the Monarch pictured.

It's brilliant. It's an incredibly capable frame - it carries loads of speed and lets me get away with a lot. It also pedals really well - I don't feel as if I have lost any efficiency in going from the 140mm Spitty to this.

The rear end is a bit tricky to tune. It doesn't need a lot of LSC as it has a very firm midstroke, but the end stroke is very linear and I've had to put a lot of bands in both the DB Inline and Monarch to compensate. I'm still trying to get my head around the Monarch - it feels a bit dead and I think I prefer the more lively feel of the DB Inline (not so much the poor reliability though!) I'm playing around with an extra band or two in the Monarch's negative spring to see if I can get the initial stroke to feel more lively/poppy.

I'm hoping the brand can get a few frames out to the US as there seems to be a lot of interest in them but not enough reviews out there.
 

Attachments

StiHacka

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,505
In hell. Welcome!
Sov said:
Here's a quick garage photo. It's built up with a 170mm Vengeance Coil, Monarch Plus, XT/XTR drivetrain and ancient SLX cranks. Wheels are ARC27s on Hope Pro4s. Also has a -2 degree angleset.

I moved from a second gen Spitfire to this, and transferred across the DB Inline until it failed, replaced with the Monarch pictured.

It's brilliant. It's an incredibly capable frame - it carries loads of speed and lets me get away with a lot. It also pedals really well - I don't feel as if I have lost any efficiency in going from the 140mm Spitty to this.

The rear end is a bit tricky to tune. It doesn't need a lot of LSC as it has a very firm midstroke, but the end stroke is very linear and I've had to put a lot of bands in both the DB Inline and Monarch to compensate. I'm still trying to get my head around the Monarch - it feels a bit dead and I think I prefer the more lively feel of the DB Inline (not so much the poor reliability though!) I'm playing around with an extra band or two in the Monarch's negative spring to see if I can get the initial stroke to feel more lively/poppy.

I'm hoping the brand can get a few frames out to the US as there seems to be a lot of interest in them but not enough reviews out there.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the report! Sounds like a coil shock is not a good match for this bad boy. How long dropper can you fit in the frame? That is probably the biggest worry for me when looking at the geo / frame numbers.
 
6thElement

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
15,940
13,189
Sov said:
I don't think I have posted here for years but this water bottle talk has me excited.

I recently moved to a house with trails behind the back fence and got sick of filling up a camelbak every time I wanted to go for a quick ride. I went for a pedal one day with just a bottle and it was a revelation. Now I'm trying to work out ways to stash tubes/tools/pump etc without making everything look ghetto. Current solution is an adapter to shift the bottle cage forward to make room for a tube strapped to it. I think this looks neater than a tube randomly strapped to the top tube or whatever. See photo.

I managed to find a Giant mini pump that is 21mm OD and 130mm long and fits perfectly in my steerer tube, so next job is to design up a 3d printed plug to hold it in place. Then the mini tool and phone go into my jersey/shorts pocket and job done.

I'll still use a camelbak in summer (because Australia) but for shorter rides, the bottle is the way to go.
Click to expand...
I use a backcountry research strap to hold tube and tyre lever to the back of my saddle. Lezyne pump is attached alongside the bottle cage. Then I use a backcountry research tulbag to hold multi-tool, chain tool, few zip ties etc.

If you try to store your pump in your steerer I would think the rattling would be very annoying.
 
Gary

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,631
5,547
UK
Sov said:
Here's a quick garage photo.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Couldn't quite work out what was going on from your driveside pic so googled it.


Really wasn't expecting that. (especially the floating idler)
 
S

Sov

Chimp
Jan 1, 2008
73
19
Adelaide, Australia
StiHacka said:
Thank you for the report! Sounds like a coil shock is not a good match for this bad boy. How long dropper can you fit in the frame? That is probably the biggest worry for me when looking at the geo / frame numbers.
Click to expand...
It's got 190mm insertion with a 455mm seat tube. I have a 365/125 Revive on mine and can only just achieve the 700mm saddle height I need as the actuator at the bottom of the post interferes with the pivot through the seat tube. A 385/125 Reverb also works for me.

I think a coil with some kind of air volume ramp adjustment in the reservoir would work, plus perhaps a nice progressive bump stop. To be honest though, I've had coils on trail bikes in the past and haven't felt the need for one of this frame. The rear end has loads of traction with both air shocks I've tried.

6thElement said:
If you try to store your pump in your steerer I would think the rattling would be very annoying.
Click to expand...
Yes, it kind of wedges into the tapered steerer. With some foam wrapped around it I think it should be ok.
 
HardtailHack

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,721
5,604
Nice to see a -2deg angleset in the Kraftwerk, would make it a lot more fun and add a touch more reach.

Will be keen to see if they do a V2 or a shorter travel model, if Mr Kraftwerk is listening- 475mm reach, 65deg HA and 120mm of travel would suit me perfectly.
 
HardtailHack

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,721
5,604
Happymtb.fr said:
And for those riding without backpack, check Oneup's edc tool system that can fit either in a steer tube or inside a pump of their design
https://www.oneupcomponents.com/products/edc-tool-system

Specialized has some interesting stuff too within their swat line: https://www.specialized.com/us/en/shop/equipment/bike-extras/swat-technology/c/swatstorage
Click to expand...
I bought a Syncros Matchbox, it was good if very cheap feeling but I went to remove my rear wheel and realsied it didn't have a 6mm allen key so it was ditched. I moved on to a Topeak Ninja which seemed nice but it turns drink bottles in to missiles, I'll try a couple more bottles but I may have to go back to the Syncros and stash a 6mm key somewhere.

The Forbidden bike does look nice but I'm really fat and fat people shouldn't have carbon bikes, it's like a fat person with six pizzas and a diet coke, they ain't foolin' anyone.
 
Inclag

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,752
442
MA
HardtailHack said:
Nice to see a -2deg angleset in the Kraftwerk, would make it a lot more fun and add a touch more reach.

Will be keen to see if they do a V2 or a shorter travel model, if Mr Kraftwerk is listening- 475mm reach, 65deg HA and 120mm of travel would suit me perfectly.
Click to expand...
FYI, decreasing HA reduces reach.
 
HardtailHack

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,721
5,604
Inclag said:
FYI, decreasing HA reduces reach.
Click to expand...
If the front of the bike gets lower you should get slightly more reach shouldn't you? I guess the offset headset moves the stem back a bit and then you'd have to run an extra spacer to get you stack height back so the reach would probably end up about the same as when you started.

Cotic always have geo for different travel forks so you can watch the numbers change-
http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/flareMAX#sizing


That bike actually looks pretty sweet aside from the lack of drink bottle.
 
Happymtb.fr

Happymtb.fr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2016
1,913
1,268
SWE
@HardtailHack I have used a specialized Zee cage with an EMT tool for around 5000 km and never lost a bottle. It does have a 6mm hex.

And Cotic have a bottle mount below the top tube
 
Carraig042

Carraig042

me 1st
Apr 5, 2011
732
353
East Tennessee
Sov said:
I managed to find a Giant mini pump that is 21mm OD and 130mm long and fits perfectly in my steerer tube, so next job is to design up a 3d printed plug to hold it in place. Then the mini tool and phone go into my jersey/shorts pocket and job done.

I'll still use a camelbak in summer (because Australia) but for shorter rides, the bottle is the way to go.
Click to expand...
There is a product for that. https://miles-wide.com/product/fork-cork/

-Brett
 
ianjenn

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
3,001
704
SLO


29" wheels, 12 Pinion speed gearbox, 180mm front & rear suspension; designed and made in England. An enduro racing superbike.
 
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