This is what's wrong with The Industry™

Tantrum Cycles · Sep 26, 2018

rideit said:
UCI and E-Bike content...

https://www.velonews.com/2018/09/news/uci-to-organize-e-mtb-world-championships-in-2019_479427

You know what? Race e bikes. Fine. Ride e-bikes. Fine.

But this is seriously the problem with the industry.

E bikes are HUGE. What did I quote from BRAIN, 3% of the market?

They are SOFA KING HUGE. It's like the mountain bike scene of the 90's.

Except it isn't. It's the industry spending a shit ton of money to make it huge because they are bored.

at Sea Otter, Northstar and Mammoth, they were BEGGING people to race the e-bike race.

You get 1) To ride and thrash a free loaner bike

2) a free Troy Lee helmet just for entering.

Up until the time of the race, in a scene full of bike riders and racers, they couldn't find enough racers to race free bikes.

I woulda raced one if I wasn't busy racing my, um, acoustic, no, my bio, dammit, no, my analog bike

The industry wants it to be big so they can sell more easy stuff. It's not. It's a niche that they are pouting a ton of money in to try to make it something it's not. While ignoring "cycling". You know, the thing that got us here.

toodles · Sep 26, 2018

Tantrum Cycles said:
The industry wants it to be big so they can sell more easy stuff. It's not. It's a niche that they are pouting a ton of money in to try to make it something it's not. While ignoring "cycling". You know, the thing that got us here.

What people actually asked for and are willing to pay for:
Tyres that hold air
Good value bikes with great geo and warranty and great places to ride them

What the Industry delivered:
Electronic bikes
Electronic shifting
Electronic suspension

slimshady · Sep 26, 2018

My signature says it all.

jackalope · Sep 26, 2018

slyfink · Sep 27, 2018

rideit said:
UCI and E-Bike content...

https://www.velonews.com/2018/09/news/uci-to-organize-e-mtb-world-championships-in-2019_479427

why, WHY?!?! is the first frickin' e-bike world champs at fuckin' MSA?! goddamit. we have access issues here too. promoting that shit in this part of the world is irresponsible. Gary said it best.

Gary said:
Fuck off UCI

edited to add: may you go the way of ... what was the name of that discipline where 4 xc riders would tee up at the same time for a short sprint up and over a mole hill?!

captainspauldin · Sep 27, 2018

StiHacka said:
New race: who recharges his battery the fastest...

Assuming the ebike championships are an XC format with laps, I wonder if the UCI will require you to swap bikes half way through the race so you can get a fully-charged bike the 2nd half of the race (just like Formula E swaps cars mid race currently since batteries don't have the capacity to make it through a whole race). Seems a bit silly.

jonKranked · Sep 27, 2018

slyfink said:
why, WHY?!?! is the first frickin' e-bike world champs at fuckin' MSA?! goddamit. we have access issues here too. promoting that shit in this part of the world is irresponsible. Gary said it best.

edited to add: may you go the way of ... what was the name of that discipline where 4 xc riders would tee up at the same time for a short sprint up and over a mole hill?!

they'll be using Canadian electrons

slimshady · Sep 27, 2018

slyfink said:
why, WHY?!?! is the first frickin' e-bike world champs at fuckin' MSA?! goddamit. we have access issues here too. promoting that shit in this part of the world is irresponsible.

Not to mention it's a terrible way of honoring the memory of Stevie Smith by running the first UCI approved moped race on his home country.

FlipSide · Sep 27, 2018

It is certainly not the cool thing to say these days (especially not in this What's Wrong thread), but I think it could be a pretty cool event if done right. I ride there all the time and I can assure you there is great potential at MSA to do something quite nice if they go for for a long distance Enduro/Rally type of race.

There is about 200km of double track XC skiing trails that are all rideable on a bike, plus the alpine skiing sector where the hold the World Cup every year, plus a whole lot of really nice singletracks in between, and great options for long climbs.

To be interesting, it should obviously be a super long loop with lots of long climbs on which battery management is super critical.

Of course, there are chances that it will suck ass if they choose to only do a regular XC/marathon race on eBikes...but the potential is there.

dump · Sep 28, 2018

FlipSide said:
...There is about 200km of double track XC skiing trails that are all rideable on a bike, plus the alpine skiing sector where the hold the World Cup every year, plus a whole lot of really nice singletracks in between, and great options for long climbs.

To be interesting, it should obviously be a super long loop with lots of long climbs on which battery management is super critical.

Of course, there are chances that it will suck ass if they choose to only do a regular XC/marathon race on eBikes...but the potential is there.

We have very different ideas of interesting.

FlipSide · Sep 28, 2018

dump said:
We have very different ideas of interesting.

...and that's perfect like that!

The more I watch the EWS, the more I like the format. An eBike enduro race could open uphill timed stages and IMO it would be interesting in the sense that it could give some "value" to the junk miles between stages in a regular non-motorized enduro race. Some could decide to burn through their battery in the uphill, but have less assistance for the other parts. In some aspects, it would require some strategy somewhat analog to F1 racing, where where some teams will opt for 3 pit stops to take advantage of fresher tires and a lighter car, or only 2. (Note: I haven't watched F1 in ages, I don't even know if it still works like that...with the yearly rule changes).

Basically: Interesting in the sense that it could be (and should be) very different.

StiHacka · Sep 28, 2018

FlipSide said:
...and that's perfect like that!

The more I watch the EWS, the more I like the format. An eBike enduro race could open uphill timed stages and IMO it would be interesting in the sense that it could give some "value" to the junk miles between stages in a regular non-motorized enduro race. Some could decide to burn through their battery in the uphill, but have less assistance for the other parts. In some aspects, it would require some strategy somewhat analog to F1 racing, where where some teams will opt for 3 pit stops to take advantage of fresher tires and a lighter car, or only 2. (Note: I haven't watched F1 in ages, I don't even know if it still works like that...with the yearly rule changes).

Basically: Interesting in the sense that it could be (and should be) very different.

Solar panels covered helmuts and backpacks. You've heard it here first.

rockofullr · Sep 28, 2018

FlipSide said:
...and that's perfect like that!

The more I watch the EWS, the more I like the format. An eBike enduro race could open uphill timed stages and IMO it would be interesting in the sense that it could give some "value" to the junk miles between stages in a regular non-motorized enduro race. Some could decide to burn through their battery in the uphill, but have less assistance for the other parts. In some aspects, it would require some strategy somewhat analog to F1 racing, where where some teams will opt for 3 pit stops to take advantage of fresher tires and a lighter car, or only 2. (Note: I haven't watched F1 in ages, I don't even know if it still works like that...with the yearly rule changes).

Basically: Interesting in the sense that it could be (and should be) very different.

rideit · Sep 28, 2018

StiHacka said:
Solar panels covered helmuts and backpacks. You've heard it here first.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/jPFCXeZPlUM

jackalope · Sep 28, 2018

rideit said:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/jPFCXeZPlUM

William42 · Oct 3, 2018

The owner of the shop I'm working part time at right now is morbidly obese. He used to ride a lot, then it got to the point where it was just too hard and painful because of his weight, the fun stopped so he did too, and he got fatter. He just got an e-bike, and has been riding for the first time in many years and has been having a great time. For his happiness sake, and health sake, I'm pretty glad e-bikes exist.

And I don't think he's the only person out there in this situation. Making bikes more accessible is ultimately a good thing. There's just going to be some teething issues as people with no trail etiquette show up and do things that are to the detriment of everybody while the bike community figures out how to welcome them and teach the newcomers the general rules of the road. Short term, ebikes might make things worse for some of us, long term I think they'll lead to healthier sales numbers for bike companies (and I have several friends employed by them who love their jobs, I'd love for that to continue) as well as a larger population of people looking for trails and pushing for trail access.

Instead of talking about ebikes being what's wrong with the industry, lets move on to yet another new shitty crankbrothers wheelset. They hired two rim designers with opposite philosophy on what makes for a high performance wheel and rim combo, and decided to let one design the front and the other design the rear.

https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Wheelsets,44/Crankbrothers/Synthesis-E-11,23973#product-reviews/3305

How does this company still exist?

Bikael Molton · Oct 3, 2018

Cuz kooks with cash think the logo looks cool.

William42 said:
How does this company still exist?

rockofullr · Oct 3, 2018

William42 said:
while the bike community figures out how to welcome them

This is my favorite way to welcome e-bikers

Tantrum Cycles · Oct 3, 2018

William42 said:
The owner of the shop I'm working part time at right now is morbidly obese. He used to ride a lot, then it got to the point where it was just too hard and painful because of his weight, the fun stopped so he did too, and he got fatter. He just got an e-bike, and has been riding for the first time in many years and has been having a great time. For his happiness sake, and health sake, I'm pretty glad e-bikes exist.

Ok, but this is just weirdly backwards. The owner of a bike shop gets too fat to ride. Obviously from not riding enough. And finds riding an e-bike is the answer.

Believe me, I'm not trying to give him or you shit, it's just too ironic when he owns a shop containing the fountain of youth.

Gary · Oct 3, 2018

Electric_City said:
Edit: I had a lot more in bold, but you'll get the point.

Chill... There's no need to get all BOLD11!1!! it's just an overly large overly heavy mountainbike tyre

I rode with a guy I met on his Ebike for about an hour at the weekend, First other Ebike rider I've ever ridden with. He described himself as being into mountain biking at the start of it all then switching to motocross, loved going fast and was also one of the best instructors in the country at steep off piste Alpine skiing. He was riding the top of the range Fox coil suspended 180mm Devinci Ewhatever wondErbike shod with fresh DH tyres. Great! This bloke should be able to ride a pushbike half descent then, eh? I thought. He didn't know the trails so I took him up to the top of a 900ft ish hill to do one of the most fun (not massively technical) fast rutted chutey, rooty, loamy hand cut descents on the hill we were riding at as a warm up. I described the entire trail we were about to ride (there's no jumps or anything blind to worry about or anything weird, I just wanted him to know his way) and told him I'd pull over n wait half way down as there was an option to switch between two trails. I didn't see him after the first corner and when I got to the junction (about a minute in) I couldn't even hear him... so I waited... and waited... and waited.. a good few minutes passed until I started to think maybe he'd hurt himself and got ready to walk back up to find him. then I heard brakes and 20seconds later saw him coming. The guy was fuming. almost spitting with anger. Apparently the trail was too shit and slow for him to ride.. I calmed him down (christ knows now why I bothered) and explained the next section was about as close as you could get to loose moto turns in the woods for pushbikes, it's a section I love with loamy drifty supportive naturally bermed wide linking turns and dips that if hit at enough speed you drift and jump between the turns as you change direction with zero braking.. followed by fast rooty fairly straight goodness with the odd camber and tight bit you ride high and drift down. Again I set off having shit loads of fun on the whole section. (it's honestly one of my favourite sections on any trail)... again my new Ebiker "friend" doesn't turn up for minutes... only this time a group of 8-10 fast young Endurbros rip down the trail in a train clearly having a brilliant time and I start to think... oh... no... here we go again. Moto guy eventually arrived at the trail end and imediately started to shout about how the trail was SHIT! Unridable! and SLOW? how he HATED it. Not him? but the trail... a trail that quite a few very good local riders put a hell of a lot of hours into building and maintaining that is absolutely awesome to ride all year round if you can actually ride a trail fairly fast and have basic mtb skills. I ended up telling him all this and to STFU and have a bit of respect... He then made his excuses to leave in the huff. Toys well and truely thrown out the pram.
It's guys like this that are Schwalbe's Eddie Current tyre market. They're never going to be off their massively powerful brakes enough to manage fierce acceleration... They're never going to ever put out perfect transmission of engine power to the ground... because they're simply too shit and scared to ever ride anything more than a fireroad well enough to do either. They also believe weight doesn't matter because they have a motor so will buy any 1600g 2.8" pile of junk any company stamps an E onto looking for ultimate grip when in reality they've never intentionally tested the limit of grip of a tyre in their life.

Save your angst for when these dicks get hold of their third wheel.

jonKranked · Oct 3, 2018

Gary said:
Chill... There's no need to get all BOLD11!1!! it's just an overly large overly heavy mountainbike tyre

I rode with a guy I met on his Ebike for about an hour at the weekend, First other Ebike rider I've ever ridden with. He described himself as being into mountain biking at the start of it all then switching to motocross, loved going fast and was also one of the best instructors in the country at steep off piste Alpine skiing. He was riding the top of the range Fox coil suspended 180mm Devinci Ewhatever wondErbike shod with fresh DH tyres. Great! This bloke should be able to ride a pushbike half descent then, eh? I thought. He didn't know the trails so I took him up to the top of a 900ft ish hill to do one of the most fun (not massively technical) fast rutted chutey, rooty, loamy hand cut descents on the hill we were riding at as a warm up. I described the entire trail we were about to ride (there's no jumps or anything blind to worry about or anything weird, I just wanted him to know his way) and told him I'd pull over n wait half way down as there was an option to switch between two trails. I didn't see him after the first corner and when I got to the junction (about a minute in) I couldn't even hear him... so I waited... and waited... and waited.. a good few minutes passed until I started to think maybe he'd hurt himself and got ready to walk back up to find him. then I heard brakes and 20seconds later saw him coming. The guy was fuming. almost spitting with anger. Apparently the trail was too shit and slow for him to ride.. I calmed him down (christ knows now why I bothered) and explained the next section was about as close as you could get to loose moto turns in the woods for pushbikes, it's a section I love with loamy drifty supportive naturally bermed wide linking turns and dips that if hit at enough speed you drift and jump between the turns as you change direction with zero braking.. followed by fast rooty fairly straight goodness with the odd camber and tight bit you ride high and drift down. Again I set off having shit loads of fun on the whole section. (it's honestly one of my favourite sections on any trail)... again my new Ebiker "friend" doesn't turn up for minutes... only this time a group of 8-10 fast young Endurbros rip down the trail in a train clearly having a brilliant time and I start to think... oh... no... here we go again. Moto guy eventually arrived at the trail end and imediately started to shout about how the trail was SHIT! Unridable! and SLOW? how he HATED it. Not him? but the trail... a trail that quite a few very good local riders put a hell of a lot of hours into building and maintaining that is absolutely awesome to ride all year round if you can actually ride a trail fairly fast and have basic mtb skills. I ended up telling him all this and to STFU and have a bit of respect... He then made his excuses to leave in the huff. Toys well and truely thrown out the pram.
It's guys like this that are Schwalbe's Eddie Current tyre market. They're never going to be off their massively powerful brakes enough to manage fierce acceleration... They're never going to ever put out perfect transmission of engine power to the ground... because they're simply too shit and scared to ever ride anything more than a fireroad well enough to do either. They also believe weight doesn't matter because they have a motor so will buy any 1600g 2.8" pile of junk any company stamps an E onto looking for ultimate grip when in reality they've never intentionally tested the limit of grip of a tyre in their life.

Save your angst for when these dicks get hold of their third wheel.

tl;dr you guys should have just ridden your ebikes to get haggis

Jm_ · Oct 4, 2018

rockofullr said:
This is my favorite way to welcome e-bikers

Wrong thread.

Gary · Oct 4, 2018

jonKranked said:
tl;dr you guys should have just ridden your ebikes to get haggis

True (short) story
influenced by your advice I just went out and got myself one of these.

It's sliced (square) Sausage, link sausage and Haggis. I'll add bacon and eggs and it's the breakfast of kings
Thanks.

roflbox · Oct 4, 2018

Gary said:
True (short) story
influenced by your advice I just went out and got myself one of these.

It's sliced (square) Sausage, link sausage and Haggis. I'll add bacon and eggs and it's the breakfast of kings
Thanks.

William42 · Oct 4, 2018

Tantrum Cycles said:
Ok, but this is just weirdly backwards. The owner of a bike shop gets too fat to ride. Obviously from not riding enough. And finds riding an e-bike is the answer.

Believe me, I'm not trying to give him or you shit, it's just too ironic when he owns a shop containing the fountain of youth.

Things like life got in the way, as it does for many people. I don't think biking is a sport that only the gnarliest and toughest people who never give up and motivated to the max should have a chance to enjoy. Shop got screwed first by specialized, then trek, and had to deal with a ton of paying off debt (was the only trek and specialized dealer in town, a chain store from a bigger city moved in that carried both, requested specialized and trek drop him, and their wish was granted). He stopped riding, and started eating instead. I can't imagine he's the only person out there that used to ride mountain bikes a lot and stopped for unrelated life reasons, but would get back into it if there wasn't such a steep curve of fitness level working against him.

I donno. Assholes are assholes in every walk of life. There are for sure some asshole ebike riders out there, as demonstrated by none other than ridemonkeys own, Gary, but there are also some assholes who ride regular mountain bikes too, as demonstrated by none other than ridemonkeys own, Gary. All joking aside, I see more people getting into the sport a net positive, even if we have to deal with some teething issues like beating the shit out of people who give away the good secret trail locations by using strava and letting the scrubs on.

But, I'm also stuck riding in a relatively flat XC only part of texas right now and have a burning hatred of pedaling, so I might be a biased source.

I still think Crankbrothers is worse than ebikes.

SkaredShtles · Oct 4, 2018

Gary said:
True (short) story
influenced by your advice I just went out and got myself one of these.

It's sliced (square) Sausage, link sausage and Haggis. I'll add bacon and eggs and it's the breakfast of kings
Thanks.

sethimus · Oct 4, 2018

Gary said:
True (short) story
influenced by your advice I just went out and got myself one of these.

It's sliced (square) Sausage, link sausage and Haggis. I'll add bacon and eggs and it's the breakfast of kings
Thanks.

do they sell magnifying glasses with that?

FlipSide · Oct 4, 2018

I love haggis.

One of the most memorable thing I've ever eaten was deep fried haggis near Loch Ness. It probably shortened my life expectancy a bit, but it was worth it.

Jm_ · Oct 4, 2018

William42 said:
Things like life got in the way, as it does for many people. I don't think biking is a sport that only the gnarliest and toughest people who never give up and motivated to the max should have a chance to enjoy. Shop got screwed first by specialized, then trek, and had to deal with a ton of paying off debt (was the only trek and specialized dealer in town, a chain store from a bigger city moved in that carried both, requested specialized and trek drop him, and their wish was granted). He stopped riding, and started eating instead. I can't imagine he's the only person out there that used to ride mountain bikes a lot and stopped for unrelated life reasons, but would get back into it if there wasn't such a steep curve of fitness level working against him.

I donno. Assholes are assholes in every walk of life. There are for sure some asshole ebike riders out there, as demonstrated by none other than ridemonkeys own, Gary, but there are also some assholes who ride regular mountain bikes too, as demonstrated by none other than ridemonkeys own, Gary. All joking aside, I see more people getting into the sport a net positive, even if we have to deal with some teething issues like beating the shit out of people who give away the good secret trail locations by using strava and letting the scrubs on.

But, I'm also stuck riding in a relatively flat XC only part of texas right now and have a burning hatred of pedaling, so I might be a biased source.

I still think Crankbrothers is worse than ebikes.

People lose sight of the forest for the trees. Your health is the number one thing. Whether you have kids, a job, etc., you prioritize your health above all that shit, because if you aren't around, none of the other stuff matters anyway. It's not about an e-bike, it's about that guy finally realizing this and getting back on track. It takes a commitment, but we are "programmed" by so many things in life to ignore it, hell, in some places it seems like it's encouraged (to eat, get fat, live with heart disease, diabetes, etc.) and the "new" normal. All of a sudden they end up with 5 kids, a jerb, and no time to ensure they can remain healthy.

I'm not saying it's necessarily easy, my parents recently just got back on track, near the end of their years, but we should always encourage being active, doing stuff, setting aside time for it, reinforce it, spread it around, make sure your friends do it and get them out, etc.

Gary · Oct 4, 2018

SkaredShtles said:

It's also the perfect morning appetiser after a proper good night on the Broon stuff, eh?

Gary · Oct 4, 2018

sethimus said:
do they sell magnifying glasses with that?

it's just a picture man. IRL add the egg and bacon and that'd fill even an american plate.

Gary · Oct 4, 2018

Jm_ said:
Your health is the number one thing. Whether you have kids, a job, etc., you prioritize your health above all that shit

Sorry to get so serious for a moment and to call you out on this but that's complete shit mate! You've clearly never been as low or as fucked up as many others have in their life if you think everyone else prioritises their health at all.. nevermind above certain other things that affect your view on life. There will be others here who have also been so low/dependent/mentally unstable etc. they might have an idea what I'm talking about... but life's nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be.

I fully agree with the rest of what you said, support is so important... but not everyone has any at all.

In the grand sceme of thing we here are a bunch of fairly lucky spoilt assholes who spend far too much time discussing (our complaints about) our overpriced toys.

jonKranked · Oct 4, 2018

Gary said:
Sorry to get so serious for a moment and to call you out on this but that's complete shit mate! You've clearly never been as low or as fucked up as many others have in their life if you think everyone else prioritises their health at all.. nevermind above certain other things that affect your view on life. There will be others here who have also been so low/dependent/mentally unstable etc. they might have an idea what I'm talking about... but life's nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be.

I fully agree with the rest of what you said, support is so important... but not everyone has any at all.

In the grand sceme of thing we here are a bunch of fairly lucky spoilt assholes who spend far too much time discussing (our complaints about) our overpriced toys.

reminder: we don't have universal health care

rockofullr · Oct 4, 2018

Jm_ said:
Wrong thread.

lol wut? This isn't the improve your health motivational thread?

William42 said:
I can't imagine he's the only person out there that used to ride mountain bikes a lot and stopped for unrelated life reasons, but would get back into it if there wasn't such a steep curve of fitness level working against him.

The fitness curve isn't that steep. You can always push your bike up when you get too tired to pedal. He'd probably get a better result that way. If you're not fit enough, do shorter laps till you can do the long ones.

Really though, I don't care if you ride your moped on the jeep/moto trails just keep them off the trails designed for motor free recreation.

SkaredShtles · Oct 4, 2018

rockofullr said:
Really though, I don't care if you ride your moped on the jeep/moto trails just keep them off the trails designed for motor free recreation.

And quit insisting that they "aren't motorized"... :disgust1:

Cerberus75 · Oct 4, 2018

I dont care if someone who had bike sense rides a ebike because they're old,injured or trying to get back into it. Its the 300-400lbs person who has no sense being on a bike that can do 30mph on a trail with me. Unless it will jeopardize access to the trails.

Flo33 · Oct 4, 2018

jonKranked said:
reminder: we don't have universal health care

You over there in Trumpistan still have suffrage don't you? Come on, you don't have a state secretary who is trying to hit on free media like we do in Banana Republic of Austria?!

jstuhlman · Oct 4, 2018

Nick · Oct 4, 2018

rockofullr said:
You can always push your bike up when you get too tired to pedal.

It's true!
I do it all the time !!

This is what's wrong with The Industry™

Turbo Monkey

ridiculously corgi proportioned

¡Mira, una ardilla!

Mental acuity - 1%

Turbo Monkey

intrigued by a pole

Detective Dookie

¡Mira, una ardilla!

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Compensating for something

confused

Bob the Builder

Mental acuity - 1%

Torture wrench

fork ways

goofy for life

confused

Turbo Monkey

"S" is for "neo-luddite"

Detective Dookie

sled dog's bollocks

"S" is for "neo-luddite"

roflborx

fork ways

Michael Bolton

neu bizutch

Turbo Monkey

sled dog's bollocks

"S" is for "neo-luddite"

"S" is for "neo-luddite"

"S" is for "neo-luddite"

Detective Dookie

confused

Michael Bolton

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

bagpipe wanker

My name is Nick