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New GG Bike Reveal Poll

New GG Bike Options


  • Total voters
    33

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Didn't see that one coming. Pretty rad, good luck guys.

Surprising that some of you are still seriously worried about the long-term durability of carbon bikes. Sure, there are some that suck, and there are some companies who have shitty warranty programs, but that's true of any material. Come on already.

You remember when we were going to ride toads a few years ago and your handlebars were creaking?

Why did you change them?:p


@jstuhlman , listen up
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,001
1,693
Northern California
Didn't see that one coming. Pretty rad, good luck guys.

Surprising that some of you are still seriously worried about the long-term durability of carbon bikes. Sure, there are some that suck, and there are some companies who have shitty warranty programs, but that's true of any material. Come on already.
There's plenty of reason to worry in general due to how carbon fails (not saying this is a GG issue) - https://www.outsideonline.com/2311816/carbon-fiber-bike-accidents-lawsuits

I don't have any personal reason to buy carbon. I've dented aluminum frames but have never had one unable to get me home, while I've seen people walking back broken carbon frames. Buying a replacement alloy chainstay for one I've dented is a lot cheaper than buying a carbon one. A warranty is great, but I'd rather not have to use it because time off the bike sucks. I could stand to loose a few lbs off myself before my bike, so weight isn't a thing for me. In general I prefer aluminum, and as long as I can find alloy frames with suspension and geometry that work for me I'll stick with those; although if I find a frame that works better for me that's only available in carbon I'll buy it and deal with it. Haven't had to do that yet though. Sounds like GG have a process and formula they have good oversight on which would make me more likely to give them a shot if their geo worked for me.
 
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OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,647
1,116
NORCAL is the hizzle
You remember when we were going to ride toads a few years ago and your handlebars were creaking?

Why did you change them?:p
Jeez, I barely remember that, and have no idea how you do.

But anyway, bars are different than frames. It's easier for me to understand why some people are scared of carbon bars as compared to frames. I still ride with carbon bars anyway, but regardless I don't keep a bar (aluminum or carbon) for more than a couple years.

I understand the theoretical concern about catastrophic failures of carbon vs. aluminum. I just don't see it enough in the real world to justify the worry. There was a time when I might have agreed but that time is long past.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,376
804
There's plenty of reason to worry in general due to how carbon fails (not saying this is a GG issue) - https://www.outsideonline.com/2311816/carbon-fiber-bike-accidents-lawsuits

I don't have any personal reason to buy carbon. I've dented aluminum frames but have never had one unable to get me home, while I've seen people walking back broken carbon frames. Buying a replacement alloy chainstay for one I've dented is a lot cheaper than buying a carbon one. A warranty is great, but I'd rather not have to use it because time off the bike sucks. I could stand to loose a few lbs off myself before my bike, so weight isn't a thing for me. In general I prefer aluminum, and as long as I can find alloy frames with suspension and geometry that work for me I'll stick with those; although if I find a frame that works better for me that's only available in carbon I'll buy it and deal with it. Haven't had to do that yet though. Sounds like GG have a process and formula they have good oversight on which would make me more likely to give them a shot if their geo worked for me.
My personal experience (and I don't know how accurate/true it is), is that pressing in new bearings in my Pivot carbon frame pretty much resets the feel of the bike. Even after 5 seasons, my carbon frame felt as nice and stiff as the first day I got it with fresh bearings. On the contrary, I always felt that aluminum frames tend to loose their original feel and stiffness after a couple of season, even with new bearings pressed in.

There's a clear possibility that the alu frames I got were not as well designed as the carbon frame that didn't seem to age at all...but I always wondered if it could be a matter of aluminum being softer and perhaps getting slightly looser around the bearings with time. I would be interested in hearing about people think about this... Is my observation accurate, or are alu and carbon equivalent in that regard and it's just a matter a frame better engineered than the other?
 
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jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,573
24,191
media blackout
There's plenty of reason to worry in general due to how carbon fails (not saying this is a GG issue) - https://www.outsideonline.com/2311816/carbon-fiber-bike-accidents-lawsuits
this definitely touches on what i'm getting at (beyond more than anecdotal evidence). @OGRipper i definitely agree that modern carbon is light years better than what was being produced in the mid '00s, but i think there's a lack of understanding how carbon performs over its lifespan (and there's even some debate as to what constitutes that lifespan), especially given the difference in failure mode and fatigue to the material itself. I'd be curious to see how robust the FMEA (if any) done for a carbon component is.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,001
1,693
Northern California
My personal experience (and I don't know how accurate/true) it is, is that pressing in new bearings in my Pivot carbon frame pretty much resets the feel of the bike. Even after 5 seasons, my carbon frame felt as nice and stiff as the first day I got it with fresh bearings. On the contrary, I always felt that aluminum frames tend to loose their original feel and stiffness after a couple of season, even with new bearings pressed in.

There's a clear possibility that the alu frames I got were not as well designed as the carbon frame that didn't seem to age at all...but I always wondered if it could be a matter of aluminum being softer and perhaps getting slightly looser around the bearings with time. I would be interested in hearing about people think about this... Is my observation accurate, or are alu and carbon equivalent in that regard and it's just a matter a frame better engineered than the other?
I think I've only had 2 frames that I've kept for more than 2-3 seasons so I can't say I've ever noticed that. I had an 07 Reign X for 7 years that never felt any looser assuming good bearings but tolerances were pretty good on that bike and even when my weight creeps up I only hit 185lbs.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,573
24,191
media blackout
I think I've only had 2 frames that I've kept for more than 2-3 seasons so I can't say I've ever noticed that. I had an 07 Reign X for 7 years that never felt any looser assuming good bearings but tolerances were pretty good on that bike and even when my weight creeps up I only hit 185lbs.
this is one of the things i talk about "lifespan", especially since i pretty much always have a frame for longer than 5 years. the length of time a given rider (original owner) still varies a lot, but i'd say more people now buy (new) more frequently. I'm not one of those people. The "youngest" bike i currently own is from 2013, and I am not the original owner.
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,647
1,116
NORCAL is the hizzle
Yeah, I definitely don't keep a mountain bike for more than a few years these days, so whether a frame will last longer than that is not much concern to me. Still, it's my uneducated understanding that aluminum frames have the shortest fatigue life as compared to other materials commonly used for bike frames. There are smarter people here who can compare and contrast in more detail.

Anyway the fact that even GG is shifting to carbon should tell you something.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,648
3,089
this definitely touches on what i'm getting at (beyond more than anecdotal evidence). @OGRipper i definitely agree that modern carbon is light years better than what was being produced in the mid '00s, but i think there's a lack of understanding how carbon performs over its lifespan (and there's even some debate as to what constitutes that lifespan), especially given the difference in failure mode and fatigue to the material itself. I'd be curious to see how robust the FMEA (if any) done for a carbon component is.
I remember reading an ali/carbon handlebar test in a bike mag 2-3 years ago. They tested the stiffness of the handlebars and then ran the fatigue test. All the bars that survived were tested for their stiffness again and some of the carbon bars had lost some. I think I recall that a Ritchey bar got quite soft. None of the ali bars showed this behavior and only some carbon bars. BTW: Renthals broke before the end of the test, both carbon and ali.
 

Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
RC to FC ratio still off. Just ask Steve :busted:
True, but that's just one aspect of a bike. One that matters, but still just one. I actually think this is some of the coolest stuff I've seen in a long time, the way they've gone about this project is brilliant. And since they already have the modular seatstay program going on, if they wanted to they could relatively easily make a long chainstay variant that'd alter the FC/RC ratio too. But more impact resistant carbon, more efficient manufacturing, US built AND super competitive on price? That's not just "impressive", that's fucking incredible.

I'd say it's likely these guys will be at least 3x their current size by the end of next year.
 

wiscodh

Monkey
Jun 21, 2007
833
121
303
T, if they wanted to they could relatively easily make a long chainstay variant that'd alter the FC/RC ratio too. But more impact resistant carbon, more efficient manufacturing, US built AND super competitive on price? That's not just "impressive", that's fucking incredible.

I'd say it's likely these guys will be at least 3x their current size by the end of next year.
The one draw back to me was short chainstay.......but everything else they are doing makes up for it in spades. So hopefully they screw up a chainstay and make it 435 for me :P Or ill do the CAD work and they can slap it in there haas .

But again what they are doing is amazing. Stoked for you all.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,480
4,720
Australia
The one draw back to me was short chainstay.......but everything else they are doing makes up for it in spades. So hopefully they screw up a chainstay and make it 435 for me :P Or ill do the CAD work and they can slap it in there haas .

But again what they are doing is amazing. Stoked for you all.
The Megatrail has a 432 CS, which is pretty close. The Shred has a 423 which is getting short but would be fun to ride
 

mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,862
1,604
Denver, CO
The one draw back to me was short chainstay.......but everything else they are doing makes up for it in spades. So hopefully they screw up a chainstay and make it 435 for me :P Or ill do the CAD work and they can slap it in there haas .

But again what they are doing is amazing. Stoked for you all.
We lengthened the chainstays on the Megatrail and The Smash for this year...
 

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
2,287
854
coloRADo
First, congrats! So rad!

Second, why not keep the aluminum? Seems like the the fixed costs of jigs and whatnot are paid for...so for the Ali bike you just skip to step 3 = profit. Perhaps I over simplify here...

Oh and I have a spare unicorn, so if you need more farts, I'd be happy to contract out one of mine lol
 

mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,862
1,604
Denver, CO
First, congrats! So rad!

Second, why not keep the aluminum? Seems like the the fixed costs of jigs and whatnot are paid for...so for the Ali bike you just skip to step 3 = profit. Perhaps I over simplify here...

Oh and I have a spare unicorn, so if you need more farts, I'd be happy to contract out one of mine lol
Manufacturing capacity. Today's order volume definitely confirms there would not be the capacity to make both lines of frames.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,573
24,191
media blackout
Manufacturing capacity. Today's order volume definitely confirms there would not be the capacity to make both lines of frames.
Can you divulge some numbers?

Also, given the price difference the carbon frame sales would simply cannibalize aluminum sales.
 

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,010
1,146
El Lay
I’m not interested in carbon, but I am a fan of US manufacturing and figuring out how to do it at a competitive price, if only so as to continue that US manufacturing. Doing it all yourself from the ground up isn’t easy.

I’m pretty certain us Retromonkeys are not representative when it comes to plastic bikes, either. I don’t see how a company could survive long on aluminum only.

The new bikes are a bit prettier too.

Very cool. Congrats guys.
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,998
702
SLO
I’m not interested in carbon, but I am a fan of US manufacturing and figuring out how to do it at a competitive price..
Do it like other companies in a far off land with people that may be of age working with a gun at their back for a bowl of rice a day.......