Quantcast

This is what's right with The Industry®

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,541
5,472
UK
That's the other thing, we deal with all kinds of mud and there's no way older non-clutch systems would stay in adjustment over 100+ miles in constant crap, huge improvements IME.
Eh?
The clutch has nothing to do with anything staying in adjustment other than chain tension to the cage/lower jockey wheel.

Huge overly long flappy chains and ever longer mech cage plates to cover the chainwrap difference from a satelite dish to sized sprocket down to micro BMX sized ones and poor chainline from eleventyhundred different sprockets is the main reason the clutch is required.
NW is just a more secure tooth profile
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,573
24,192
media blackout
Eh?
The clutch has nothing to do with anything staying in adjustment other than chain tension to the cage/lower jockey wheel.

Huge overly long flappy chains and ever longer mech cage plates to cover the chainwrap difference from a satelite dish to sized sprocket down to micro BMX sized ones and poor chainline from eleventyhundred different sprockets is the main reason the clutch is required.
NW is just a more secure tooth profile
I was thinking about how stupid this is the other day - just the insane size range for these cassettes. I was listening to I think the FTW podcast on vital and it reminded me of the Hammerschmidt. Aside from the ungodly weight (and a few other things) it was ahead of it's time imo.
 

Katz

Monkey
Jun 8, 2012
371
788
Arizona
...Maybe there's some unique thing about the gear combos or spacing that makes you prone to dropping, I have largely avoided tiny front rings and monster rear cogs, I'm "moderate" in that regard, so maybe that keeps the shocks through the system from being excessive, I dunno. I can say that when my chainring starts to get significantly worn it might drop a couple times, easy to diagnose and fix IME.
I was thinking more along the line of "chain growth vs. rebound speed, exacerbated by constant chatter" type of things. Still clinging onto my flexy 12mm x 142mm frame, so the chain line could possibly be a factor, along with component wear as you mentioned. I run a typical 32T ring/10-42 cassette combo.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,541
5,472
UK
when you freewheel over uneven terrain you will naturally ratchet your cranks a little (lowering the rear foot and leveling out again). This is often exacerbated by flat pedals. Every time you drop your rearwards foot the (upper) chain tension drops and every time the suspension compresses it also drops. this loosening of chain tension combined with poor chain angle/line from gearing and bumps/hits can cause the chain to come off the top chainring teeth more easily. it's far worse with a longer chain and wide range cassette when descending in the smaller sprockets as there's way more loose chain and the tension spring/clutch is at its weakest.
but can still happen even in the largest sprockets when climbing and ratcheting because of the chainline and back pedalling effect with the chain leaving the chainring teeth at a severe angle.
One of the things I love about my Ebike is the freewheel in the crank. it means the above situation simply can't happen.
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,596
5,894
in a single wide, cooking meth...
when you freewheel over uneven terrain you will naturally ratchet your cranks a little (lowering the rear foot and leveling out again). This is often exacerbated by flat pedals. Every time you drop your rearwards foot the (upper) chain tension drops and every time the suspension compresses it also drops. this loosening of chain tension combined with poor chain angle/line from gearing and bumps/hits can cause the chain to come off the top chainring teeth more easily. it's far worse with a longer chain and wide range cassette when descending in the smaller sprockets as there's way more loose chain and the tension spring/clutch is at its weakest.
but can still happen even in the largest sprockets when climbing and ratcheting because of the chainline and back pedalling effect with the chain leaving the chainring teeth at a severe angle.
One of the things I love about my Ebike is the freewheel in the crank. it means the above situation simply can't happen.
[Grumble, grumble - something about e-bikes - grumble, grumble]

I've wondered about this recently, as I think it's partially responsible for my current cracked radius bone. In order to get the chain length such that it doesn't unduly pull/fatigue your derailleur in the biggest cog, there's not much tension on the chain in the smallest cogs. I tried to sneak in a pedal stroke before a biggish jump while in a small cog and it slipped (badly), and I exacerbated the situation by half ass panic braking before the lip. Anyway, I think a super light Hammerschmidt would be rad, if likely impossible.
 
Last edited:

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
16,628
12,920
Cackalacka du Nord
[Grumble, grumble - something about e-bikes - grumble, grumble]

I've wondered about this recently, as I think it's partially responsible for my current cracked radius bone. In order to get the chain length such that it doesn't unduly pull/fatigue your derailleur in the biggest cog, there's not much tension on the chain in the smallest cogs. I tried to sneak in a pedal stroke in before a biggish jump while in a small cog and it slipped (badly), and I exacerbated the situation by half ass panic braking before the lip. Anyway, I think a super light Hammerschmidt would be rad, if likely impossible.
yup. if i’m slipping gears, it’s usually when i’m down in 13 or 15 and trying to sneak in a few pedals on stupid rough terrain. those situations are the ones where it used to get tossed occasionally without a top guide.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,541
5,472
UK
In order to get the chain length such that it doesn't unduly pull/fatigue your derailleur in the biggest cog, there's not much tension on the chain in the smallest cogs. I tried to sneak in a pedal stroke before a biggish jump while in a small cog and it slipped (badly), and I exacerbated the situation by half ass panic braking before the lip.
Not to mention B-tension (upper jockey wheel height) is far more critical with stupid wide ratio cassettes meaning it's often too low creating less chain wrap on your 15-11t sprockets to the extent where they'll slip under serious load.

didn't know you were injured. get well soon dude!
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,037
7,554
how's the ratcheting/POE count affecting your pedaling?
I haven’t noticed, probably because e-bikes are awkward as it is in those ratcheting situations as the torque and cadence sensors are trying to figure out what you want from limited data.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,541
5,472
UK
Can't speak for Toshi's motor (can't even remember what bike he has) but they're not all awkward in those situations @slimshady. With subsequent firmware updates my E8000 STEPS motor has gotten more responsive and smoother and smoother in that respect. The crank doesn't really have a noticable freewheel POE as such, it's just that it disengages from the spider when backpedalled and re-engages pretty much instantaniously when you pedal forwards again. hub is just a DT 370 so nothing special in engagement point count but not terrible.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,855
9,560
AK
Can't speak for Toshi's motor (can't even remember what bike he has) but they're not all awkward in those situations @slimshady. With subsequent firmware updates my E8000 STEPS motor has gotten more responsive and smoother and smoother in that respect. The crank doesn't really have a noticable freewheel POE as such, it's just that it disengages from the spider when backpedalled and re-engages pretty much instantaniously when you pedal forwards again. hub is just a DT 370 so nothing special in engagement point count but not terrible.
Son of a bitch, you mean they are learning?
 

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
Can't speak for Toshi's motor (can't even remember what bike he has) but they're not all awkward in those situations @slimshady. With subsequent firmware updates my E8000 STEPS motor has gotten more responsive and smoother and smoother in that respect. The crank doesn't really have a noticable freewheel POE as such, it's just that it disengages from the spider when backpedalled and re-engages pretty much instantaniously when you pedal forwards again. hub is just a DT 370 so nothing special in engagement point count but not terrible.
So kind of a freecoaster hub's engagement mechanism in the motor/crankset?
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,541
5,472
UK
Honestly don't know how the mechanism works as opening the casing voids warranty. I'd guess it's some sort of clutch but I wouldn't have thought it was all that similar to that of a freecoaster. Having said that i haven't looked at how modern freecoasters work either.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,480
4,720
Australia
Why are E-bikes being mentioned in the "this is what's right" thread... In a DH forum?
In our local race scene we have an absolute legend of an old guy - Bob. Bob is still racing DH at ~68 years old and is an all-round good guy. Last Sunday we had a group trail ride followed by a BBQ and beers to welcome a buddy back from overseas and Bob on his new E-bike came for a 15km, 400m (err 10mile/1200' ish) ride with us all and had no problems keeping up and generally had a great time. Was awesome having him around.

E-bikes aren't the problem here. Being force fed them by marketers, media and E-bike owners is the shit thing.
 

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
1,993
716
Bla, bla, bla...
E-bikes aren't the problem here. Being force fed them by marketers, media and E-bike owners is the shit thing.
Congrats to Bob. I really am happy for him. Group rides are awesome with the right people and it sounds like Bob was with the right group of friends.

But E-bikes in a DH forum is similar to discussing hybrid cars with muscle car owners. Nay?

Ps. Next time you have the privilege of riding with Bob, lean over and politely tell him to MAN THE FUCK UP AND DROP THE HEMI! Then ride off as fast as you can while making psychotic monkey noises... Bob will understand.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,480
4,720
Australia
Next time you have the privilege of riding with Bob, lean over and politely tell him to MAN THE FUCK UP AND DROP THE HEMI! Then ride off as fast as you can while making psychotic monkey noises... Bob will understand.
You want me to tell a 68 year old dude who is racing DH to "man the fuck up"? Sure, I'll then go tell Tyson he punches like a girl.
 

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
1,993
716
Which in your dumb anology is the E bike and which is the DH bike?

also do you even own a musclecar DH bike?
How about hybrid cars in a Jeep forum? Better?

I can tell between you and I which one owns a DH bike and which one owns an e-bike. Lol!
 
Last edited:

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,541
5,472
UK
How about hybrid cars in a Jeep forum? Better?
Nah.. it's still a retarded analogy. Why not go full 'mercan and do bow n arrows vs rifles?

I can tell between you and I which one owns a DH bike and which one owns an e-bike. Lol!
No. We can all tell from your cluelessness you don't own an Ebike.
You seem to have forgotten I own both.
Well.. to be more precise I own 2 DH bikes and an Ebike. along with an enduro bike, a 4X bike, a slopestyle bike a DJ bike, a BMX and a road bike among others.
 
Last edited:

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
1,993
716
-Coming from someone who doesn't wear a helmet.

-Uses the word "retarded".

-Has an e-bike.

-Goes off with spontaneous rants about his bike collection.

Well, if it walks like a duck and looks like a duck?
It's Gary!

You make me smile when I read your post.

Gary.jpg
 
Last edited:

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
1,993
716
Ps. You are 100% correct I don't own a moped. I never will. I've pedaled my fat ass for this long. May as well stick to it!
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,541
5,472
UK
Hmmm... do you honestly wear a helmet every single time you ride a bike? Hold on. Wait a minute, do you even ride a bike?
That really wasn't a rant. trust me.
Simply expalaining to you that I also ride bikes other than the one Ebike I have. None of which singularly define any one "category" of rider I might happen to be.
But hold on... Acording to you I can't possibly be a DH rider if I own an Ebike. The joke's on you mate.

Will Ratboy stop qualifying as a DH rider to you when his E-bike arrives? does Brayton? Kerr? Gwin? the list of savy DH riders riding them is growing pretty quickly... but you hold on to your principles, eh? Keep it real by pedalling an Enduro bike up hill all day long puting MOAR effort into your climbs for half the descending I'd get. or do you use an electric powered chairlift/gondola or a combustion engined shuttle service?
What about Si? a guy who's raced DH for two decades and ran the BDS DH series?

Ps. you seem to be taking this (and yourself) a little too seriously.
 

aenema

almost 100% positive
Sep 5, 2008
305
111
yo take this shit to PM's, arguing about e bikes is not what's right with the industry for anybody.
I agree, I get that folks are passionate but take it offline as I don't want to keep reading the same arguments from the same people on this topic.
 

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
1,993
716
I agree, I get that folks are passionate but take it offline as I don't want to keep reading the same arguments from the same people on this topic.
I agree and I apologize. But some people are so easy! It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Talk shit about a moped, and out come the guns. (Or whatever they use over there).
 

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
1,993
716
totally agree.
infact i'd rather talk about it on the hill.
The conversation wouldn't last long.
Unless the battery died.

COME ON! I can't pass up the opportunity!

Fwiw, my post held credibility "Why are E-bikes being mentioned in the "this is what's right" thread... In a DH forum?", with 6 of 9 people agreeing.

But I'd recommend that the mods delete the rest.

How 'bout a hug @Gary? You have ammo on me. Don't forget that I'm using a MANual machine! Lulzz!
 
Last edited: