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ALEXIS_DH

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,147
796
Lima, Peru, Peru
Toshi said:
The only people who pay this headline figure are… well, no one.

Indigent people or even Joe Sixpack would be billed for this, negotiate part/much of it away as charity care and/or go bankrupt. They wouldn’t pay.

People with enough money to pay this bill would most likely have insurance in the first place.
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That would suggest there is already a de-facto socialized health care in place. An extremely overpriced one though.

I think I paid something like $1500 for my father´s whipple a few years ago, 30 day hospital stay included (no private insurance would touch him after he got an unrelated skin cancer quite a few years ago). And I think a bulk of that (like $1300) was for medical supplies/tools during surgery.
The whole cancer treatment (chemo, radiation, scans, surgeries, palliative care) ended up costing about $20k for the next 2 years, with most (like 80%) being tied up to the whipple and a few urgent scans (we paid out of pocket at a private clinic because we couldnt wait 3 weeks for an appointment).

No complications from the whipple itself, outcome/life expectancy ended up being within US rates.. so while quality of hospital stay (food/facilities) where not very good; actual medical outcome was pretty good.

My daughter had a 1 week stay at NICU for jaundice. I think the private insurance was billed was like $4k-$5k (c-section included). I paid like $400 out of pocket.
My wife had a room with a small private garden/terrace and an extra bed for me for a week.

I just dont see a non-cartel explanation for prices being 50x.
 
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Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,249
7,695
That's the thing, though, the billed charges are ridiculous, 50x per you. But that's not what's ultimately reimbursed by insurance as their negotiated rates are much lower, albeit probably still higher than reimbursement rates outside of the US. It's only relevant in that that's the amount for which an uninsured person would actually be sent to collections.

As an example, for each week of work I do the hospital bills insurance something about $35k. That's a $1.8 million per year rate. They don't collect that much, of course...
 
ALEXIS_DH

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,147
796
Lima, Peru, Peru
Toshi said:
That's the thing, though, the billed charges are ridiculous, 50x per you. But that's not what's ultimately reimbursed by insurance as their negotiated rates are much lower, albeit probably still higher than reimbursement rates outside of the US. It's only relevant in that that's the amount for which an uninsured person would actually be sent to collections.

As an example, for each week of work I do the hospital bills insurance something about $35k. That's a $1.8 million per year rate. They don't collect that much, of course...
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A better ratio would include the total health expenditure of the country.
Adjusted by key indicators like life expectancy, newborn mortality, etc... the US is getting a lousy return on investment compared to the EU and comparable others.

The ratio of MDs per 1000 is pretty low for 1st world standards.
Me thinks the AMA (among others) has the country by the balls, strangling the offer and keeping prices high.

Without socialized care, there is no "bottom" to compare when it comes to health care prices. AMA reluctance to socialized healthcare seemes cartel-like.
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,249
7,695
Of interest to @canadmos : Saw a beautiful R35 GT-R, same battleship grey as my Tesla, on my drive in to work this morning. CO vanity plate of GODZIRA.

:notbadobama:

/me would not fit in one with a helmet
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,249
7,695
PALO ALTO, Calif., April 03, 2019 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Tesla is making significant progress in the development of its autonomous driving software and hardware, including our FSD computer, which is currently in production and which will enable full-self driving via future over-the-air software updates. With a number of very exciting developments coming in the weeks and months ahead, Tesla will host investors on the morning of April 19th at our headquarters in Palo Alto to provide a deep dive into our self-driving technology and road map.

Investors will be able to take test-drives to experience our Autopilot software first-hand, including features and functionality that are under active development. Investors will also hear directly from Elon Musk, as well as VP of Engineering, Stuart Bowers, VP of Hardware Engineering, Pete Bannon, and Sr. Director of AI, Andrej Karpathy.
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Recall that in the flurry of activity in recent months I ended up purchasing the Full Self Driving upgrade package for my Model 3 (as it was on sale temporarily for $2k during the self-induced pricing change/store closure/pricing walkback stupidity that Elon brought upon himself).

:banana:

Might get some new features soon! These will no doubt still require one to be able to take over at any time, but I love a good science experiment as much as any.
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,249
7,695
Quick poll: Is getting a 1000W electric Razor style scooter (I'd say kick but no one's kicking these along) a good idea or a great idea? While Ubering would no doubt be cheaper even with FCA reliability, having a 25 mph electric platform that one can shove in a trunk would be fun...
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,249
7,695
Nick said:
Or you know, ride a bicycle.
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If all my vehicles had racks then yes, that'd work. I suppose I could carry a strap-on bike rack (waiting for out of context subquote on that one) with me while on the bike...
 
ALEXIS_DH

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,147
796
Lima, Peru, Peru
Toshi said:
Quick poll: Is getting a 1000W electric Razor style scooter (I'd say kick but no one's kicking these along) a good idea or a great idea? While Ubering would no doubt be cheaper even with FCA reliability, having a 25 mph electric platform that one can shove in a trunk would be fun...
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My upper floor neighbor has one.
Heavy electric scooter is heavy, I think.
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,249
7,695
ALEXIS_DH said:
My upper floor neighbor has one.
Heavy electric scooter is heavy, I think.
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Yeah, I think the fast ones with big batteries are around 40 lbs.

If I were to do this I might go instead with a 15 mph, lighter and cheaper one. 25 mph on a small wheeled scooter is probably not a good idea... but it would be fun. Hmmm

With 3 cars that's 6 trips per year for winter/non-winter tire changeovers, plus at least one Land Cruiser oil change and the inevitable service visits for the FCA minivan.
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,249
7,695
This one is quite fetching



And it's called Unagi! How can I resist a scooter with that name, unless compared with a hypothetical Kare Pan scooter?

This one is kind of cool in a Ducati Diavel-for-kids way

 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,249
7,695
Time to calculate ROI for a hypothetical electric scooter.

UberX estimates for trips I'd make with this thing:

FCA dealer to the nearby train station. $7.65
Discount Tire to work. $7.44
Les Schwab to home. $7.65

So even with a tip it's $10 or less on average. For a fun/fast scooter that'd be about 100 trips when accounting for tax. That's probably 10 years payback, and at that timescale one probably should account for the time value of $1000...

:D

Ok. It doesn't make sense. I still like the concept, though, because I would.
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,249
7,695
SkaredShtles said:
Dude. The dealer doesn't have a courtesy shuttle? FTS.

Oh. Wait. Fiat/Chrysler. Never mind. Carry on.

:p
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Oh, good point. They actually do have a courtesy shuttle for dropoffs. One just has to wait until they amass enough people for a full minivan-load.

Car service is a huge waste of time overall.
 
SkaredShtles

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,634
12,699
In a van.... down by the river
Toshi said:
Oh, good point. They actually do have a courtesy shuttle for dropoffs. One just has to wait until they amass enough people for a full minivan-load.

Car service is a huge waste of time overall.
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You're telling me. I gotta take the truck in to get trans/transfer case/diff flushes done. Luckily my local shop has a shitty old Saturn for the courtesy shuttle, so they will just drive me home without having to wait for anybody. :D
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,249
7,695
Toshi said:
This one is quite fetching



And it's called Unagi! How can I resist a scooter with that name, unless compared with a hypothetical Kare Pan scooter?
Click to expand...
Toshi said:
Time to calculate ROI for a hypothetical electric scooter.

[...]

Ok. It doesn't make sense. I still like the concept, though, because I would.
Click to expand...
Because I do things that don't make sense I just ordered me some unagi. Er, I mean I ordered an Unagi.

The kicker for me is that there's a 30 day return policy:



If I love it and it has an actual useful place in my life I'll keep it. Otherwise I'll return it without compunction.
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,249
7,695
I'm not in the market--no, really, I'm not!--but this is of interest:

Audi e-tron EPA range revealed to be 204 miles.

That's with a 95 kWh pack, albeit one with 12% of capacity kept in reserve so effectively just under 84 kWh.

My commentary on this is that this is Jaguar i-Pace-level shitty efficiency. Were I in the market this range number would actually kill the vehicle's prospects for me, because there would be absolutely no buffer to get to the mountains in winter weather and return without charging based off of the reduced efficiency that I've experienced firsthand in my nominally 310 mile-range Model 3.

(And, besides, it doesn't have a 3rd row. What the Rivian's EPA range comes out to be with their very big packs but block-like styling will be similarly interesting as an academic exercise given that I once again have the Land Cruiser as a backup vehicle to end all backups.)
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,249
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SkaredShtles said:
Do you think that Ford's 370-mile SUV is going to eat everyone's lunch? Excepting those people that require an electric status-symbol, I mean...
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Unless the non-Tesla quick charging network has miraculously been built out without me noticing, then no, it will not eat anyone's lunch. And I bet it'll be high 200s EPA range. Europe has a notoriously optimistic range test.
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,249
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Seen this, @Pesqueeb ?

I’m psyched about the ID Buzz, the van one. Great styling, great interior concept, and nicely integrated sensors for autonomy with that cool steering wheel that slides away.

2022.
 
CBJ

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,874
4,214
Copenhagen, Denmark
Looking forward to hearing more about the self driving in the 3. Reading what it will be able to do makes my Volvo feel super out dated already which you know all about. I wonder if people in general are as hyped up about self driving as you and I are. I am already dreaming about the next car when the lease runs out in 2021. I am sure both the power options and self driving tech is much further along.
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,249
7,695
CBJ said:
Looking forward to hearing more about the self driving in the 3. Reading what it will be able to do makes my Volvo feel super out dated already which you know all about. I wonder if people in general are as hyped up about self driving as you and I are. I am already dreaming about the next car when the lease runs out in 2021. I am sure both the power options and self driving tech is much further along.
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Go electric for your next one!

https://combo-map.com/

Seems like plenty of CCS chargers abound in Denmark. If local incentives aren't good it sounds like Norwegians are buying EVs under their tax incentives and then flipping them to other EU states.

Model 3 Euro version has CCS instead of the proprietary Tesla port.
 
CBJ

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,874
4,214
Copenhagen, Denmark
Toshi said:
Go electric for your next one!

https://combo-map.com/

Seems like plenty of CCS chargers abound in Denmark. If local incentives aren't good it sounds like Norwegians are buying EVs under their tax incentives and then flipping them to other EU states.

Model 3 Euro version has CCS instead of the proprietary Tesla port.
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Its a company car so it depends on what is offered at that time. I do a lot long drives as we have family in other parts of Denmark so I need something with range and I'm not getting a back up Land Cruiser even though I would love to especially not when the company car comes with free gas for all of Europe.
 
Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,298
16,738
Riding the baggage carousel.
CBJ said:
I wonder if people in general are as hyped up about self driving as you and I are.
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:wave:

Toshi said:

Seen this, @Pesqueeb ?

I’m psyched about the ID Buzz, the van one. Great styling, great interior concept, and nicely integrated sensors for autonomy with that cool steering wheel that slides away.

2022.
Click to expand...
https://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/toshis-thread.16951/page-204#post-4326312

In related news; spent a goodly portion of yesterday driving a couple new vehicles.

Toyota Tacoma (Access cab, 6ft bed, manual transmission, because I still have a shred of dignity)
Verdict: was a toyota truck. Sport edition hood is ginormous, not sure why they even bothered putting "seats" in the back. Else wise, felt solid and unremarkable in a good way.

Chevy Bolt was fun. Quick (not model 3 quick obviously, but still fun), handled like a roller skate, tons of room inside. Felt a lot like driving the Fiat Panda we had in Italy and I had a fantastic time driving that little euro-box car in the italian country side. I dig the highlighter yellow but jesus lord, why are Chevy interiors so bad?

Leaf e+ felt like a more adult car. This one was so new they hadn't even finished taking all the shipping plastic off of it. Had that heavy car "float" that old school Benz's used to have and certainly felt more solid inside than the bolt, but wasn't as fun to drive. Pro-pilot made me giggle on the freeway. Not as fast as teh bolt but still felt quick. Not sure if that's the electric torque talking or just 18 years of driving a wrangler. Local dealer takes the state rebate right off the top of the price plus a local utilities credit of 2500 bucks.
 
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Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,249
7,695
I knew you knew of the vehicle, 'squeeb. Was asking about that video in particular. :D
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,249
7,695
1) Rode the Pivot Shuttle into work today. When I do so I try to maximize the distance on dirt relative to the concrete path, both for fun and for tire wear on those big 2.8" Maxxis meats. It was a good experience, even with the 20 mph limiter (so often cooking along at 18 or 19 mph, as it sort of bounces off of the limiter).

I picked it since I'll be riding home after 10 PM today--working a long 8 AM-10 PM day for extra $$$$ to blow on things like electric scooters :D -- and I didn't want to be on the drop bar commuter alongside cars at 10 PM, reflective shit and lights aside. Better to be zipping along the Sand Creek Greenway by myself instead, 2200 lumens lighting up the path.

2) Mariko's dentist-bike has 9 gears. Therefore it's time for her first, easy mountain bike ride on Sunday! I'm thinking the easy trails at the top of White Ranch: little exposure and little obstacles so as to not frighten or frustrate her.
 
Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,298
16,738
Riding the baggage carousel.
I know we talked about it when we had lunch last doc, but at least as far as published numbers by chevy, plugging a bolt into a light pole at work for 10 hours would MORE than cover the distance of my commute to/from work. I assume the numbers on a leaf would be similar. Making mexico the airport support the cost of my driving has a lot of apeal. :D
 
6thElement

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
15,940
13,189
Toshi said:
2) Mariko's dentist-bike has 9 gears. Therefore it's time for her first, easy mountain bike ride on Sunday! I'm thinking the easy trails at the top of White Ranch: little exposure and little obstacles so as to not frighten or frustrate her
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Go to Bear Creek Lake Park in Lakewood. You can park at the bottom of Morrison to avoid the park entry fee.
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,249
7,695
SkaredShtles said:
What easy trails at the top of WR? :confused:
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6thElement said:
Go to Bear Creek Lake Park in Lakewood. You can park at the bottom of Morrison to avoid the park entry fee.
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Nick said:
:stupid:

take her to Bear Creek, roll around on some flat singletrack, enjoy.
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https://www.jeffco.us/DocumentCenter/View/9387/White-Ranch-Park-Map

Rawhide and Wrangler's Run? Or am I assuming too much on the part of the 6 year old?

I'll try Bear Creek, though.
 
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