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SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,379
12,533
In a van.... down by the river
Did you get your definition of control from the Sierra club?
His definition needs a bit of work, but he's not wrong. Out here you can get pretty jiggy with some long sight-lines, but there are other places with major blind corners that it *really* is necessary to dial it back. Enchanted Forest is one place I can think of where you can *very* easily get ahead of yourself in the speed department (and I've been guilty of it).

Bottom line out here is you GOTTA be able to stop when you come up on Granny and her 3 grandkids taking a walk in the woods. But you knew that already. :)
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,035
7,553
Use of an auto-ringing bell (like the Timber that I got after spying one on Full Trucker's ride) and yelling "Strava!" periodically suffices to clear the trail, right, guys?
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,379
12,533
In a van.... down by the river
Use of an auto-ringing bell (like the Timber that I got after spying one on Full Trucker's ride) and yelling "Strava!" periodically suffices to clear the trail, right, guys?
You've ridden Deer Creek, right? That lower section in the scrub oak... fuck. I usually go through the upper scrub at walking speed 'cause once the leaves come out I can't see SHIT more than 8 feet ahead. :D
 

TN

Hey baby, want a hot dog?
Jul 9, 2002
14,301
1,353
Jimtown, CO
I have equally as much experience as you but if I'm going tits on fire fast and I need to stop now, it ain't happening. It might still take me a distance to stop, depending on what I'm riding on. While you might be in control compared to most, if you can't stop due to speed, you are not in control. And I say this as somebody who rides up solely to ride down.
If you can't huck over uphill traffic while your tits on fire. you suck.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,520
7,069
Colorado
Did you get your definition of control from the Sierra club?

Also, your tits ain't movin' that fast these days stone-man
Just because my ass is out of shape doesn't mean the ROW has changed. Ride the speed for your environment; step off for uphill unless they say to pass; stop for hikers and horses. I will even ask equestrians if they want me to walk off trail for the horse. It's called being polite and it's a simple concept.

I was an ass in the past, but still gave ROW even way back, but the reality of people needing to get their shit together kicked in when we had a bunch of guys not let up when hiking with Haley. They came through at full clip including pulling off trail to keep speed. There was no passing space, plenty of sight line to see we were there, and absolute space to yield. That shit is ridiculous.
 

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
19,799
8,383
Nowhere Man!
I got the Air Force on the phone. They just need your coordinates and Stoneys credit card info for the Air Strike. I'm on hold. So hurry up....
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,855
9,559
AK
Here in Tucson, the closest MTB park is 4 hours away and pretty piss poor from everything ive heard. San Diego is 8 hours, and Angel fire is 10. The only bike only trail is currently being partly torn up for housing. About 40 acres worth.
Our consolation prize, 100 acre wood park is going to take years to finish, so that argument to ride somewhere else bike only isnt the best. Everything else in Tucson is multi-use. To be fair, most bikers do give right of way to climbers, horses and pedestrians. Most pedestrians typically step out of the way to let bikes go.
There's good gnar-chunk terrain around Tuscon that is seldom used by other trail-users, Milagrosa is one. There is the 4K descent off of Pinal Peak, although you'd probably need a clearing-party first, still there is a pretty dedicated group of people that usually go up each summer/spring and do it. There is Area 52 "freeride" slickrock riding. Yeah, Sunrise blows chunks, but you already know this. Decent sight-lines on many of the DH trails on South Mountain, except National (which is a sh*t show at times due to so many hikers and riders), and that riding is much closer. I lived in AZ for 11 years, there are plenty of places to "let it go" a bit more, where the chances of encountering someone are very slim. You still need to have a measure of control in many of these, but you can relax a little more on them. No sympathy for the DH riders that ride the popular/crowded trails and don't yield to other users. There are lots of ways to get away from it all. There's a way to drop Mt Lemon too and I'd wager that past the very top, most of it is largely abandoned.
 

KenW449

Thanos did nothing wrong
Jun 13, 2017
2,704
329
Floating down the whiskey river...
There's good gnar-chunk terrain around Tuscon that is seldom used by other trail-users, Milagrosa is one. There is the 4K descent off of Pinal Peak, although you'd probably need a clearing-party first, still there is a pretty dedicated group of people that usually go up each summer/spring and do it. There is Area 52 "freeride" slickrock riding. Yeah, Sunrise blows chunks, but you already know this. Decent sight-lines on many of the DH trails on South Mountain, except National (which is a sh*t show at times due to so many hikers and riders), and that riding is much closer. I lived in AZ for 11 years, there are plenty of places to "let it go" a bit more, where the chances of encountering someone are very slim. You still need to have a measure of control in many of these, but you can relax a little more on them. No sympathy for the DH riders that ride the popular/crowded trails and don't yield to other users. There are lots of ways to get away from it all. There's a way to drop Mt Lemon too and I'd wager that past the very top, most of it is largely abandoned.
True, but trails like Millie, CDO, etc, aren't places that one would typically ride all the time. They are fun when you want a challenge. The top of Lemmon is great. Aspen is one on my favorite rides, still over an hours drive away. Also requires a tough climb to the top or shuttle. Any place within 20/30 minutes is usually gonna have someone. Best chance of that not happening is to ride some of the trails futher back at Starr Pass. I will have to check out Pinal peak.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
the one valid argument i've heard for the opposite (climbers stop vs descending traffic) is that it would take a longer amount of time for the descending traffic to stop vs climbing traffic. ie a rider going faster will take a long time period to come to a halt.
I'm with literally everybody else in that the downhill rider has to stop. It's easier to start going again for the downhill rider, and it forces the downhill rider to ride within the limits of control. Your favorite, IMBA, agrees: https://www.imba.com/sites/default/files/Team_IMBA/RulesOfTheTrail.pdf
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,573
24,189
media blackout
That simply means the DH rider is not riding on control.
Invalid argument. As @Jm_ noted above, parks with downhill and bike only trails exist for a reason. If you are on a multi-use trail going downhill, it is you, as the individual moving fastest, who can spook horses, plow down a child/old person, or cause the accident, who needs to be responsible for your own actions.

If you are going to fast to stop, you are not in control, end of conversation. That is the legal way drivers are seen as well. Uphill-downhill balance also carries legal prescedence in that the uphill (going down) car has more control that the downhill (going up). Getting onto a bike going down is easier and getting up to speed is easier. Uphill has right of way. If you want to do race runs, go to a race track.
His definition needs a bit of work, but he's not wrong. Out here you can get pretty jiggy with some long sight-lines, but there are other places with major blind corners that it *really* is necessary to dial it back. Enchanted Forest is one place I can think of where you can *very* easily get ahead of yourself in the speed department (and I've been guilty of it).

Bottom line out here is you GOTTA be able to stop when you come up on Granny and her 3 grandkids taking a walk in the woods. But you knew that already. :)
Just because my ass is out of shape doesn't mean the ROW has changed. Ride the speed for your environment; step off for uphill unless they say to pass; stop for hikers and horses. I will even ask equestrians if they want me to walk off trail for the horse. It's called being polite and it's a simple concept.

I was an ass in the past, but still gave ROW even way back, but the reality of people needing to get their shit together kicked in when we had a bunch of guys not let up when hiking with Haley. They came through at full clip including pulling off trail to keep speed. There was no passing space, plenty of sight line to see we were there, and absolute space to yield. That shit is ridiculous.
I'm with literally everybody else in that the downhill rider has to stop. It's easier to start going again for the downhill rider, and it forces the downhill rider to ride within the limits of control. Your favorite, IMBA, agrees: https://www.imba.com/sites/default/files/Team_IMBA/RulesOfTheTrail.pdf

i find it hysterical that i make one comment in regards to the validity an argument point and you dense fuckwads jump to the conclusion that i not only actually *agree* with it but also advocate for it. reread what i said. i only stated that i consider it a valid point (because yes, it takes a longer duration to stop when traveling at higher speeds).

:bonk:
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,379
12,533
In a van.... down by the river
i find it hysterical that i make one comment in regards to the validity an argument point and you dense fuckwads jump to the conclusion that i not only actually *agree* with it but also advocate for it. reread what i said. i only stated that i consider it a valid point (because yes, it takes a longer duration to stop when traveling at higher speeds).

:bonk:
Goddam engineers. They're worse than lawyers. :rant: :D
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,855
9,559
AK
i find it hysterical that i make one comment in regards to the validity an argument point and you dense fuckwads jump to the conclusion that i not only actually *agree* with it but also advocate for it. reread what i said. i only stated that i consider it a valid point (because yes, it takes a longer duration to stop when traveling at higher speeds).

:bonk:
Well, look closely at your original post, it’s not the physics of it, you presented that this was used as an argument for uphill yielding to downhill. I was pointing out in the context of that argument that if that’s your reasoning, that you can’t stop in time for other trail users, you are out of control.

But now it’s friday.