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jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,083
24,611
media blackout
Guess this should have its own thread.

Vorsprung launched the secus, and now avalanche has something in the works. Works with current gen 36, 38, & 40 with air bleed ports.

FB_IMG_1597351637907.jpg
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,030
9,686
AK
I want this, with the Secus, with an Avy damper, with a massive fender, some custom lexan fork guards, and new slikgraphics stickers.
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,030
9,686
AK
rpet said:
Are current forks so bad that we need to zip tie extra dampers to the outside of 'em?
Click to expand...
Might want to zip-tie the crown to the stanchions and steerer while you are at it.
 
scrublover

scrublover

Turbo Monkey
Sep 1, 2004
2,937
6,330
I mean...I'm an air fork guy, but...

if you're adding all this extra weight to try and get your air fork to ride like a coil fork, why go for one of the several coil conversions on the market now?

What am I missing?
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,030
9,686
AK
scrublover said:
I mean...I'm an air fork guy, but...

if you're adding all this extra weight to try and get your air fork to ride like a coil fork, why go for one of the several coil conversions on the market now?

What am I missing?
Click to expand...
Because then you have to stop eating cheese.
 
Electric_City

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
1,999
716
Sheeple, Sheeple, Sheeple... The IS The Industry™ where people will spend an extra 5 grand to save 1lb just to have bragging rights. Nobody wants the weight of a coil. So they make an air fork that cost more and weighs a pound less. Everybody justifies their idealism and throws out catch phrases like "You obviously don't understand the scale of economics, Bro!" to justify, their own purchases! The point is that nobody would pay extra for a coil that works better than an air fork because it's heavier. But I know most riders would feel totally awesome telling their bros that theyre bike is worth $8k and weighs 30lbs, but that the fork is "custom" and cost an additional 1k (despite the fact that it weighs more than a coil).

Good for these companies always trying to improve stuff and make money while doing it.
 
F

FarkinRyan

Monkey
Dec 15, 2003
611
192
Pemberton, BC
Fuck you all. I'm going to get this and run it with a DSD Runt and a Secus.

Yo dawg, we heard you like air chambers, so we added air chambers to your air chambers, then added a couple of sweet extra air chambers to those air chambers.
 
englertracing

englertracing

you owe me a sandwich
Mar 5, 2012
1,581
1,077
La Verne
FarkinRyan said:
Fuck you all. I'm going to get this and run it with a DSD Runt and a Secus.

Yo dawg, we heard you like air chambers, so we added air chambers to your air chambers, then added a couple of sweet extra air chambers to those air chambers.
Click to expand...
I do wonder how much MORE than a coil all that shit would weigh.
 
HardtailHack

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,778
5,677
Here's a 40mm stachioned fork with this crazy new thing called a 20mm axle, apparently it is a similar weight to a 15mm axle but is stiffer!
www.pinkbike.com

Futuristic Air Release Technology by RockShox - Pinkbike

I was out in Grand Junction this weekend riding and I saw this bike in the parking lot. At first I thought it looked a lot like those pictures of the new BOS fork with that external reservoir. When I quizzed the rider of the bike he told me a very different use.
www.pinkbike.com www.pinkbike.com
1597486646225.png
 
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F

fwp

Monkey
Jun 5, 2013
410
400
I can't wait to show off at the trailhead with my $2000 fork zip tied together. Thats some impressive "engineering"
 
mykel

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,120
3,835
sw ontario canada
fwp said:
I can't wait to show off at the trailhead with my $2000 fork zip tied together. Thats some impressive "engineering"
Click to expand...
Apparently mounting straps with acorn nuts are coming, but I'd go with the zip-tie, that way you can colour-co-ordinate.
 
F

FarkinRyan

Monkey
Dec 15, 2003
611
192
Pemberton, BC
englertracing said:
I do wonder how much MORE than a coil all that shit would weigh.
Click to expand...
Pssh. I'll have you know it doesn't just weigh more, it also cost more and therefore is better.

It seems like you actually could do this if you put an Avalanche cartridge in the other leg, which would also increase both cost and weight again.

If someone could help me track down one of these to complete the build it would be much appreciated
 
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Wuffles

Wuffles

Monkey
Feb 24, 2016
157
98
All of this extra crap we now have to bolt to telescoping forks makes me wish linkage forks to become more mainstream. That single leg fork that dude on PB came up with I posted a while ago is a good start, tho I'd go with a trailing arm design instead. Maybe a subject for a new thread.
 
englertracing

englertracing

you owe me a sandwich
Mar 5, 2012
1,581
1,077
La Verne
Wuffles said:
All of this extra crap we now have to bolt to telescoping forks makes me wish linkage forks to become more mainstream. That single leg fork that dude on PB came up with I posted a while ago is a good start, tho I'd go with a trailing arm design instead. Maybe a subject for a new thread.
Click to expand...
:ban:
 
F

FarkinRyan

Monkey
Dec 15, 2003
611
192
Pemberton, BC
Wuffles said:
All of this extra crap we now have to bolt to telescoping forks makes me wish linkage forks to become more mainstream. That single leg fork that dude on PB came up with I posted a while ago is a good start, tho I'd go with a trailing arm design instead. Maybe a subject for a new thread.
Click to expand...
I think Trust going belly-up so quickly will have the knock-on effect of putting the kybosh on anyone thinking of innovating in that field for a while. I've put a day in the Whistler bike park into a Motion Ride and there was definitely merit to the design, the anti dive was an amazing benefit riding sustained, steep tech but it wasn't without issues either and that's the limiting factor that both they and Trust run into in my opinion. If you want people to adopt it widely, it can't be objectively worse than a telescopic fork in any area of performance regardless of the baked-in linkage benefits you offer.
 
Wuffles

Wuffles

Monkey
Feb 24, 2016
157
98
FarkinRyan said:
I think Trust going belly-up so quickly will have the knock-on effect of putting the kybosh on anyone thinking of innovating in that field for a while. I've put a day in the Whistler bike park into a Motion Ride and there was definitely merit to the design, the anti dive was an amazing benefit riding sustained, steep tech but it wasn't without issues either and that's the limiting factor that both they and Trust run into in my opinion. If you want people to adopt it widely, it can't be objectively worse than a telescopic fork in any area of performance regardless of the baked-in linkage benefits you offer.
Click to expand...
Eh, I think Trust had trust issues. They had a shitty damper that they then used marketing wanketeering to hype up as not shitty (ala Cannondale), their prices were astronomically high, and in general they treated prospective customers like shit.

The DIY fork on PB (https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-single-sided-carbon-fiber-diy-linkage-fork.html) is a much better fundamental design. You don't need to innovate much of anything actually, just package existing components in a novel way that gives customers options they didn't have before.

Good ideas:

1) You Mr. or Mrs. Prospective fork maker suck at damper design. Really, don't try it. Instead, just use an existing off the shelf shock that someone else has spent all the time and money making Not Shitty. Maybe don't even sell the fork with a damper, let customers choose their own.

2) There is no need for fancy Dave Weagle linkages. Single pivot will be fine. Minimize part count. Bonus points if you offer different pivot arms to let customers customize their leverage curves.

3) Nothing proprietary. Don't pull a c-dale and invent a hub standard. If you have a 1-sided fork, have some sort of thru-bolt clamp that works with standard hub sizes.

4) The biggest expense in fork manufacturing is casting the lowers (or uppers, for a USD fork). Since you're making a linkage fork instead of a telescopic fork, you can avoid this. CNC'd plates for the linkages, and welded tubing for the crown/body assembly will do fine. Existing frame builders should have most of the raw stock on-hand as-is, you're just combining them in a new way.

5) Points 1-4 are all about simplicity and using existing parts. This means your fork should be both durable, and at a price point that's comparable to, if not outright fleecing the competition.
 
englertracing

englertracing

you owe me a sandwich
Mar 5, 2012
1,581
1,077
La Verne
Wuffles said:
Eh, I think Trust had trust issues. They had a shitty damper that they then used marketing wanketeering to hype up as not shitty (ala Cannondale), their prices were astronomically high, and in general they treated prospective customers like shit.

The DIY fork on PB (https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-single-sided-carbon-fiber-diy-linkage-fork.html) is a much better fundamental design. You don't need to innovate much of anything actually, just package existing components in a novel way that gives customers options they didn't have before.

Good ideas:

1) You Mr. or Mrs. Prospective fork maker suck at damper design. Really, don't try it. Instead, just use an existing off the shelf shock that someone else has spent all the time and money making Not Shitty. Maybe don't even sell the fork with a damper, let customers choose their own.

2) There is no need for fancy Dave Weagle linkages. Single pivot will be fine. Minimize part count. Bonus points if you offer different pivot arms to let customers customize their leverage curves.

3) Nothing proprietary. Don't pull a c-dale and invent a hub standard. If you have a 1-sided fork, have some sort of thru-bolt clamp that works with standard hub sizes.

4) The biggest expense in fork manufacturing is casting the lowers (or uppers, for a USD fork). Since you're making a linkage fork instead of a telescopic fork, you can avoid this. CNC'd plates for the linkages, and welded tubing for the crown/body assembly will do fine. Existing frame builders should have most of the raw stock on-hand as-is, you're just combining them in a new way.

5) Points 1-4 are all about simplicity and using existing parts. This means your fork should be both durable, and at a price point that's comparable to, if not outright fleecing the competition.
Click to expand...
But how dafuq you gonna add extra air chambers to the lowers?
 
canadmos

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,607
19,624
Canaderp
FarkinRyan said:
there was definitely merit to the design, the anti dive was an amazing benefit riding sustained, steep tech but it wasn't without issues either and that's the limiting factor that both they and Trust run into in my opinion. If you want people to adopt it widely, it can't be objectively worse than a telescopic fork in any area of performance regardless of the baked-in linkage benefits you offer.
Click to expand...
Wuffles said:
Eh, I think Trust had trust issues. They had a shitty damper that they then used marketing wanketeering to hype up as not shitty (ala Cannondale), their prices were astronomically high, and in general they treated prospective customers like shit.

The DIY fork on PB (https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-single-sided-carbon-fiber-diy-linkage-fork.html) is a much better fundamental design. You don't need to innovate much of anything actually, just package existing components in a novel way that gives customers options they didn't have before.

Good ideas:

1) You Mr. or Mrs. Prospective fork maker suck at damper design. Really, don't try it. Instead, just use an existing off the shelf shock that someone else has spent all the time and money making Not Shitty. Maybe don't even sell the fork with a damper, let customers choose their own.

2) There is no need for fancy Dave Weagle linkages. Single pivot will be fine. Minimize part count. Bonus points if you offer different pivot arms to let customers customize their leverage curves.

3) Nothing proprietary. Don't pull a c-dale and invent a hub standard. If you have a 1-sided fork, have some sort of thru-bolt clamp that works with standard hub sizes.

4) The biggest expense in fork manufacturing is casting the lowers (or uppers, for a USD fork). Since you're making a linkage fork instead of a telescopic fork, you can avoid this. CNC'd plates for the linkages, and welded tubing for the crown/body assembly will do fine. Existing frame builders should have most of the raw stock on-hand as-is, you're just combining them in a new way.

5) Points 1-4 are all about simplicity and using existing parts. This means your fork should be both durable, and at a price point that's comparable to, if not outright fleecing the competition.
Click to expand...
And even after all of that, itll still look like your bike has a pair of alien praying mantis legs on the front of it.
 
Bikael Molton

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,029
1,168
El Lay
True.

As much as Wuffles' points make some sense, what he's describing is never going to pass the "it looks clean" test.

Trust did their best to design and market a product that would appeal to the contemporary MTB consumer, to whom looks are more important than performance.

canadmos said:
And even after all of that, itll still look like your bike has a pair of alien praying mantis legs on the front of it.
[/QUOTE
Click to expand...
 
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