Battle of the crabonz

Can you get a similar deal on NOX rims? I know a number of people who have been really happy with them.

NOX Teocalli on Torch here for the last 5 1/2 years. I did crack a rear rim with a nasty landing on square edge rock. But didn't realize until a couple of rides later, just heard a noise at the time that I didn't realize what it was.

I realize these are an older "design" now as they're not lower, longer, slacker like everything else. I think newer rims tend to be slightly wider and have a slightly wider edge for pinch protection of the tyre.

Third vote for Nox, ran them on three bikes so far. Damn things are basically unkillable.

Santa Cruz would be another option worth exploring. Have a couple of friends on them, they've been very happy.

WR1 will be my next wheels*, hopefully on box stealth hubs if i can get my hands on them. i already have 2 sets of carbon wheels, Enve M70 and some chinesium xc/trail wheels.

*unless GG listens to me and starts making revved rims

Revel beat GG to the punch on Revved rims, just don't know if they're enduro-tastic enough, I believe they only do a trail bike rim.

My vote is the WAO w/Hyrda hubs or since WAO now makes i9's carbon hoops, i9 system wheels, mainly because I've had zero issues with i9 system wheels ever, just flawless wheels.

jonKranked said:

WR1 will be my next wheels*, hopefully on box stealth hubs if i can get my hands on them. i already have 2 sets of carbon wheels, Enve M70 and some chinesium xc/trail wheels.

*unless GG listens to me and starts making revved rims

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Listening to the latest episode of downtime with Barelli, kinda sorta sounds like those revved rims are coming.

maxyedor said:

Revel beat GG to the punch on Revved rims, just don't know if they're enduro-tastic enough, I believe they only do a trail bike rim.

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google seems to indicate just trail. but their marketing certainly needs some work because they weren't on my radar.

I've been really happy with WAO. I did break an Agent smashing it on a curb like an idiot, but I had a warranty replacement rim on my doorstep in less than a week. I did sell that set to a buddy (after it was relaced) as an excuse to upgrade to Unions/Hydras. I can't feel a difference between the Agents and Unions, but I do really like the Hydras over my DT350s. They're completely extravagant, but they sound and look incredible, and the quick engagement is noticeable when ratcheting / track standing.
I'm on a GG bike also, and assuming they do start making wheels, you couldn't go wrong with either. Both companies are making super reliable products in North America, and have excellent customer service.

I own LB rims and WA1 rims.
Both are light and strong, and have taken a pretty good beating.
Cost difference aside, I'd buy either brand again in a heartbeat. I've proven that the LB are moar than strong enough, and the WA1 have a no questions forever warranty.

Personally I find the carbon rims harsh compare to aluminium ones but I just have experience with the light bicycle stuff... I am on the lighter side of the scale at 75kg (165lbs) so that heavier riders might have a different picture.

Wuffles said:

Listening to the latest episode of downtime with Barelli, kinda sorta sounds like those revved rims are coming.

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ZHendo said:

Yeah I caught that one too, Barelli very nearly spilled the beans on that front.

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He hinted to a lot of stuff actually. Sounds promising.

Nick said:

I own LB rims and WA1 rims.

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I haven't gotten crabon rims yet but a few buddies have. The LB rim guarantee is absolutely useless - my friend killed his in about 6 months (DH level rim on his Hightower) and they turned down warranty as it was "abused by tough riding". A replacement rim was an obscene price so he just went a DT alloy.

The WAO rim on another friends bike look really damn nice. No problems with them after 12 months on some fairly rocky stuff

Happymtb.fr said:

Personally I find the carbon rims harsh compare to aluminium ones but I just have experience with the light bicycle stuff... I am on the lighter side of the scale at 75kg (165lbs) so that heavier riders might have a different picture.

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The LB rims are very harsh. I weigh the same, and had a set on my old Nomad 3. Would not recommend them for that, let alone crappy warranty.

ZHendo said:

Yeah I caught that one too, Barelli very nearly spilled the beans on that front.

The We Are One wheels are the most tempting, mostly because with I9 hubs they're fully made in Nurth Amuricah. The Reynolds have some good pricing options for me and come with I9 hubs, CX-Ray spokes...but, I know nothing about the rim, and can't seem to find anything that compares it to any of the more recent, less vertically rigid designs.

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If you watch Bernhard Kerr's LSD on YT then you see what kind of shit he does on Reynolds wheels. Seem to indicate they are tough. But is there still a real weight advantage with most of those modern carbon rims?

ZHendo said:

I've been using my beefy enduro bike on some longer rides, and while I was thinking about sinking some money into a trail bike for the coming year, I'm thinking instead that I'll try to lighten up my enduro bike in some sensible ways. One of those ways that I'm considering is through carbon wheels.

My current wheels are heavy as hell (Onyx rear hub and WTB KOM Tough rim), and while they're strong, they aren't particularly stiff. After now murdering several lighter-weight aluminum rims over the past couple of years, I'm starting to think that the claimed strength of the newer carbon rims, as well as the promise of slightly lighter weight and better lateral stiffness, is tempting. Not to mention, while I know everyone touts the reliability of DT Swiss rims, they're constantly sold out these days, not that light, and quite expensive for aluminum.

I have some suspicions that a certain US-based company will be releasing their own carbon wheels soon, but for now I'm looking at options within a subset of the usual suspects:

• Reynolds BlackLabel Enduro 289 Hydra
• WeAreOne Union w/ I9 1/1 hubs
• NOBL TR37

Let's suspend the price comparison for now, because I have some connections through my bike instructor program that make carbon wheels just about as appealing price-wise as building my own high-end aluminum option. Everybody seems to love the WeAreOne, and everybody used to like the Reynolds wheels when they were released, back in 2017 or so. It's hard to find any recent reviews. I know very little about NOBL, but a few other instructors that I teach with have the older model and seem to at least like the company quite a bit.

Personal experiences with any of these are very much appreciated. Cheers!

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We are one are not that light...

Andeh said:

The LB rims are very harsh. I weigh the same, and had a set on my old Nomad 3. Would not recommend them for that, let alone crappy warranty.

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Yes, I want my rims to be stiff. Tires are for traction, suspension is for bumps, etc. The ability of CF rims to hold lines under high-G and high-impact situations is hugely important to me, that's one of the primary benefits. Compliance in the vertical direction should not be coming from wheels.

I think there's a lot of BS about CF wheels.

None of them will hold up to point impacts from running too low pressure. Inserts will help if this is you that likes to run 15 PSI and then tries to ride hard on hard stuff.

They hold up better to large hits and hard riding in general, they don't go out of true and become tacos, etc. This is about jumps, drops, pounding through rock gardens with enough tire pressure, etc.

They will generally track better during high G stuff due to being more rigid.

They aren't very repairable compared to CF frames. Too complex of a repair and too little structural material to work with/not easy to vacuum new layers.

They can drop some weight, even if it's 50g, it's 50g in the right place, vs near the hub. You feel this in all manners of accelerations IME. Generally, the savings is more, but people "upgraded" to wider rims at the same time CF was coming out. Some manufacturers put out cheese-aluminum stuff that seems to get close weight-wise, but I would argue that will have the rigidity of cheese. Usually, you are a few mm narrower with your aluminum version and it's not really apples to apples.

I've ridden LB rims to hell and back, including Nextie and others and they work and hold up great. This BS about "we all of a sudden don't want wheels to be stiff" is a bit ridiculous. The improvement and not having my 29er wheel buzzing my chainstay was a huge benefit. Even trying to design in some vertical compliance with a very thin structure vertically is not going to change the point-impact properties of CF, unless you are using shoe-goo for your resin matrix, at which point you'll end up with wheels like rubber. The point-impact properties are related to the resin and CF. CF rims are not for everyone, there are places that I wouldn't run them, like if I rode South Mountain every day, I wouldn't use them as my first-line wheelset, just too many random rocks sticking out and little bowling balls you pick up with your feet that bounce around. But by and large, IME they are more durable as long as you are running enough pressure. I've relaced my 1st set about 4 times, started life on an enduro bike and saw enduro and DH races, eventually made it to a 2nd line wheelset (training, so really most of the time) wheelset for my XC bike, with some stops along the way. If they busted tomorrow, I wouldn't be mad, since 7 or so years down the line, I've gotten outstanding use and abuse out of them.

My experience with carbon rims is limited to Enve and SCB's Reserve Wheels. I also used to think rims can't be stiff enough and that comfort/compliance should be tuned via tires and suspension. I've since changed my tune and appreciate a bit of compliance. You can take it too far - I'm looking at you, ACS Z-rims and Zipp's modern version with the 3Zero Moto rim - and certainly you shouldn't be getting wheel rub on your frame. And yeah, some of the marketing is tough to swallow, but a bit of give is just more comfortable to me, particularly over high-speed trail chatter. So, when it comes to rims stiffer is not always better to me.

(I'm around 200 lbs on 29's and not always the smoothest.)

ZHendo said:

Yeah I caught that one too, Barelli very nearly spilled the beans on that front.

The We Are One wheels are the most tempting, mostly because with I9 hubs they're fully made in Nurth Amuricah. The Reynolds have some good pricing options for me and come with I9 hubs, CX-Ray spokes...but, I know nothing about the rim, and can't seem to find anything that compares it to any of the more recent, less vertically rigid designs.

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I've been on the Reynolds black label rims since 2018,

Early on I knocked a hole in the top of the rim between the spokes when I flipped a rock up onto them, Reynolds relaced it and had it back to me in 1 week.

The rims are stiff and light.
Mine are 36mm internal, too wide I wish the rear was 30, and that it used cx sprint spokes rather that cx ray on the rear only.

Also I9 hubs are way overhyped.....
I ended up putting a 321 drive ring/paws/freehub in mine to give it a dose of STFU...
Also they aren't sealed particularly great

Jm_ said:

The improvement and not having my 29er wheel buzzing my chainstay was a huge benefit.

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I think I found your problem.

If I would not ride kid's bike wheels I would buy Newmen rims or wheels, most likely aluminum but maybe also carbon. The amount of testing they do is ridiculous and these wheels seem to get great user reviews.

^you can get these in fairly low weight too: https://pirope.net/produkte/mountainbike/

ZHendo said:

These look sweet, but also very hard to source from the US...

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They are really close with Cube bikes and are their OE supplier. These you get in the US, or? Maybe a possibility to source that way?

ZHendo said:

I've done some rough math and my current wheelset weighs somewhere between 2200-2300 grams, though I admittedly haven't weighed it

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What wheelsize? What internal width are you after?

My 27.5 Hope Pro4 on DT EX471 wheelset is 1980g. I'm getting a 29er set built up with the same parts this week so will weigh it for comparison.

I'm still not sold on the wider rims\tyres getting around, although I'll try a 30mm front next time I need a wheel.

I've found a small but noticeable difference in traction between a 25mm and 30mm rim. I demo'd some SC Reserve 30 carbon rims and didn't find carbon to upgrade my ride experience. They were stiffer, but weighed the same rim-wise as my alloys.

Been running these on Onyx Vespar for a year and been pretty happy. But they’re not the absolute lightest if that’s what you’re going for.

ZHendo said:

I'm looking at 29, internal width ideally between 28-30mm. I'd rather not go any wider than 30mm, but been running 29 and 30mm for the last while and happy enough with them.

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Something I have no experience with but I love the idea of.

Crankbrothers synthesis e11
29.5mm rear 32h cx sprint
31.5mm front 28h cx ray

However the crank brothers reputation.....

djjohnr said:

I've found a small but noticeable difference in traction between a 25mm and 30mm rim. I demo'd some SC Reserve 30 carbon rims and didn't find carbon to upgrade my ride experience. They were stiffer, but weighed the same rim-wise as my alloys.

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with which tire size? i‘m leaning to 25mm atm for my upcoming 120mm downcountrysyndrom hardtail and plan to run only 2.3“s. are 30mm gonna change that much there? my last bikes all had 21mm rims but i haven’t ridden any mtb in the last 5 years so there’s that.

I went with a set of Nobl TR33 on Hope hubs back in 2016 to replace these aluminium wheels on my first 29er bike (Intense Carbine 29). The difference was night and day in terms of lateral stiffness. Mind you, the stock Easton rims were probably not designed to be used the way I used them.

Later on I switched to a set of TR36 on I9 Torch. They've been bombproof on the Megatower. I brought them to the shop once to get tensioned only because I felt like it was something I should do after riding them for over a year. They didn't really need any work. I like them and don't plan on replacing them any time soon. If it wasn't for cost, I'd buy a set of TR38 for the downhill bike.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with any of the options you mentioned as long as the wheels are built properly.

sethimus said:

with which tire size? i‘m leaning to 25mm atm for my upcoming 120mm downcountrysyndrom hardtail and plan to run only 2.3“s. are 30mm gonna change that much there? my last bikes all had 21mm rims but i haven’t ridden any mtb in the last 5 years so there’s that.

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DHF 2.5 WTs. Not sure how noticeable a change would be on 2.3 DHFs, I'd probably stick with 25s in that case.

Any reports on Stan's Carbonz rims? FlowCb7 i think?

+1 for LB rims built on hub of choice.
My 26 enduro set weighs 1450g and have been without issue for 2+ years.

Same story with my DH wheelset, in DH layup flavour. No need for warranty here.

ZHendo said:

After a pretty bonkers amount of research, I'm slowly landing on the new NOBL TR37 wheels. They're an incredibly good deal, and NOBL seems like a great company to deal with. Not only do their new rims seem to take a page from the Crank Brothers philosophy of a tuned system (different front and rear rims), but they offer a wide range of hubs and configurations, and $1200 MSRP for I9 1/1 hubs is a smokin' deal.

Runner up is still WeAreOne, primarily because they seem like good people and I like the NA manufacturing, but the weight savings is less compelling and they don't have the stiffer/stronger rear vs. lighter/more compliant front wheel system that NOBL uses, which seems to make a lot of sense.

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I was super close to getting the crank bros synthesis system carbon wheels when I upgraded- seemed like the perfect wheelset. Ended up doing some horse trading and got the I9 315c system and love them. Dropped almost a lbs of weight vs the stock dt wheels (offset by DD/ Dh tires), nice and compliant rims vs ENVE's of the past, and fast engagement hubs.

I'm in the same boat. I sold my trail bike a year ago and this past summer used my enduro bike for almost everything. It's very light (29.4lb) for a full-on enduro and Scott's unique shock makes it pedal and climb very well, for an enduro bike. I was going to build a new trail bike for this summer but a couple factors have me hesitating. My new idea is to buy the wheelset for the trailbike now and use it on the enduro when I want faster rolling and don't need the durability of DH tires. I figure it will take just a minute to swap wheels, dropping 2ish pounds and greatly reducing rolling resistance. If I like it enough I'll never get the trail bike to save money and cuz it's easier to pack an extra set of wheels than an extra bike.
The wheels will be Light Bicycle 27mm rims, 28 Berd spokes, and 240 hubs. Having the same hubs, cassette, and rotors as my enduro wheels should make them a no-adjustment swap.

iRider said:

But is there still a real weight advantage with most of those modern carbon rims?

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No. Like modern carbon trail bike frames they've gotten silly heavy. I laugh at all the "high end" carbon frame & carbon rim Ibis and Santa Cruz builds coming through our shop that are only a pound lighter than my last 26" DH bike.

I really want to see someone take a set of Revel rims and put them through their paces. I was reading they have a lifetime warranty. For the same price I can buy 4 sets of DT rims that I have enough experience to trust their integrity. (481f/570r)