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iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,654
3,101
There's been no wilderness reversal (which would require another congressional motion/legislation) since the original Wilderness act was signed into law. Like SS says, most people have no idea what the designation actually means. We have an entire mountain range in CA where no mtb trail will ever exist above 10k elevation, with mountains that go to 14k just because someone thought the most remote, inhospitable lands must somehow be protected from being 'overrun'. Now the belt notch peaks get over run with urbanites shitting all over an easily accessed trail to the top, and calling in rescues from altitude sickness :rofl:

Most of the large, long-standing designated areas were what was intended. The entire country was inventoried in the early 70s and truth be told, most of what was deemed suitable already is designated.

The act and its intent has been co-opted by a grifter cOnSeRvAtIoN non-profit movement that sells the idea of wild lands (which we have a lot of) to expensive donors when they move close to undeveloped land. It's literally a business that supports extremely well paying jobs selling the product of wilderness to big donors now. What was initially an idea to preserve some land FOR RECREATION from strip mining and clear cutting, has become a business model for rich people to give the illusion that they saved some animal that was never in danger, all while increasing the property values of the mansion they just bought in the mountains.

It's part of the reason I ride a dirtbike now. In and out of these places quicker than on an mtb. They never stop making new ones so much like most native peoples should do, treat lines on a map as lines on a map only for the people that drew them. The rest of us just have to ignore them. They ignore local people different from them when they draw these boundaries, so local people different from them should ignore the product.
Interestingly, here in Denmark it seems to be the other way around. Some fairly sensitive areas get developed for recreation and I am not always cool with that. Especially, because they nearly always build IMBA-approved bobsled runs with no root to be seen and bermkake overload. RIP this amazing area that is (was?) full of amphibians. :rant:

I remember when living in OR that the expansion of Mt Hood wilderness caused some major concerns in the MTB community. AFAIK the bill passed in 2009-ish, locking out MTB-ers. Friend of mine that lived there for some time longer told me that the hikers were bitching because the trails grew over as it previously was the MTB community that did the majority of trail work. :rofl:
 

chuffer

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2004
1,616
952
McMinnville, OR
Thinking about new tires. Been riding an Assegai MaxGrip front and DHR2 MaxTerra rear DH casing. I'm rubber curious about those Kryptotal/Argotal.
I am pretty locked in to Assegai, DHR2 and Shorties (for mud season) in DD MaxxGrip, but to make sure I wasn’t missing something, I tried the Bernie Kerr (krypto and Argo) tires last summer. I hated them!

Rode them (soft compound on enduro casings) and put a stick through the sidewall on the second ride. No where near as “stable” feeling as Maxxis DD casings. Didn’t really feel as sticky as the Maxxis tires either.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,911
7,462
SADL
I am pretty locked in to Assegai, DHR2 and Shorties (for mud season) in DD MaxxGrip, but to make sure I wasn’t missing something, I tried the Bernie Kerr (krypto and Argo) tires last summer. I hated them!

Rode them (soft compound on enduro casings) and put a stick through the sidewall on the second ride. No where near as “stable” feeling as Maxxis DD casings. Didn’t really feel as sticky as the Maxxis tires either.
Good to know. But you rode Enduro casing? They have a DH casing that would probably compare more to the DD. For now I'm looking at something for the rear for desert riding in the spring. My DHR maxgrip is almost new and will not like desert rocks. Maybe a DD Maxtera highroller?
 

chuffer

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2004
1,616
952
McMinnville, OR
Good to know. But you rode Enduro casing? They have a DH casing that would probably compare more to the DD. For now I'm looking at something for the rear for desert riding in the spring. My DHR maxgrip is almost new and will not like desert rocks. Maybe a DD Maxtera highroller?
I had one DH casing and one Enduro it looks like. I think I had the Enduro on the front and that is what I punctured the sidewall on…
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
16,341
13,658
Fook I love the area around Stanley. Gotta venture deeper into the Frank Church-River of No Return wilderness some day, too.
There was a bunch of rides I wanted to do next time we headed back, but they're all wilderness now. It amuses me that the photos are still in place on mtb project though.
 

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
23,679
11,795
In the cleavage of the Tetons
Oh, I have been chased at night in the Santa Monica mountains by heavily armed helicopters, I know a thing or two about it. But in the areas 6th is referencing, that ain’t gonna happen. You might get eaten by a bear or trampled by a moose, though.
 
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kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
i would estimate that 75% of my favorite trails in pisgah are either wilderness or designated non-biking. the irony is that more bikers than hikers use them and they are maintained almost exclusively by bikers, except on a few where "helpful" people come in every once in a while and install useless drainage trenches and waterbars, which are usually gone in a year or two. bigger problem is that now some of the trails are legit and local clubs are "working" with the forest service to "make them more sustainable"....and you know what that means...
I didn't even think there was any around there but some little itty bitty ones.

pisgah.JPG


Keep that cancer from growing! These fools love to tack on additions...
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Being chased by cops and rangers during a night ride isn't fun, don't ask me how I know.
oh that's like the funnest thing in the fuckin world :rofl:
Stellar stuff.

Bring back Ants Basin! (Now White Cloud Wilderness)
Wife and I rode it a couple of days before our wedding.
View attachment 189678

I poked down the top of warm springs in 2020. A few bike tracks.....some deadfall.

I had to walk around a bit to find it in 2021. No one is up there but dirtbikers and people doing the big casino loop. Pathetic. That looked like such a fun descent.
 

chuffer

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2004
1,616
952
McMinnville, OR
Perhaps it is just where I live and the people with whom I associate and work, but it seems like everyone I meet has some story of losing access to land. Be it FS road closures in the national forests, development of farmland, expansion of urban-growth zoning or just rich douche-bags putting up no-trespassing signs and barbed wire on properties that they never visit. The interesting part to me is I hear this complaint from the MAGA crowd as much as the Libruls. Trail runners, 'wheelers, hunters, mtbers, mushroom hunters and on and on...anyone who likes to go out and fuck around in the mtns has a story about something they lost access to...
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Perhaps it is just where I live and the people with whom I associate and work, but it seems like everyone I meet has some story of losing access to land. Be it FS road closures in the national forests, development of farmland, expansion of urban-growth zoning or just rich douche-bags putting up no-trespassing signs and barbed wire on properties that they never visit. The interesting part to me is I hear this complaint from the MAGA crowd as much as the Libruls. Trail runners, 'wheelers, hunters, mtbers, mushroom hunters and on and on...anyone who likes to go out and fuck around in the mtns has a story about something they lost access to...
Wilderness designations are different though. A lot of what you're describing is loss due to a house popping up on that plot we rode through for years.

W designations are more like "we're kicking you out because a local legislator wants a legacy of conservation™, and a group who's director has never set foot on it, just thought this would look good on a resume"

Not all losses are equal. Your mention of FS road loss is in the same vein. Those often get closed for the same bullshit reasons. Someone thought the undesireables didn't belong. It's what this nation has done since the millisecond the puritans landed.

Fun fact: 90% of endangered species exist right next to rich white people's property. True story.
 

chuffer

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2004
1,616
952
McMinnville, OR
Oh, I understand what you are saying. My point is that it is the same people driving both situations. Who is lobbying for more WIlderness Areas? Who is pushing for expansion of urban-growth boundaries?

Eta - I am not so sure that it is fair to say that loss of access via wilderness designation is worse than loss of access due to threat of trespassing prosecution? Either way loss of access is loss of access, no?
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Eta - I am not so sure that it is fair to say that loss of access via wilderness designation is worse than loss of access due to threat of trespassing prosecution? Either way loss of access is loss of access, no?
Not what I said. What I'm meaning to convey is that it's for a dumber, hollower reason. As in it's justified far less than someone finally building on a lot they actually own.

And come on man, misinformation and false narratives happen from bothsides™ but the right wing of this country has turned pro. Nothing touches the right wing disinformation grifter landscape.

Grifting on land conservation happens from an occasional right wing politician (like in the case of the boulder/whiteclouds wilderness areas) but it is by far mostly a liberal pursuit. The Wilderness Society, Center for Biological Diversity, and the Sierra Club, all multi million dollar orgs, are vastly left wing. Just as grifty, about as dishonest, but that's who gets new Wilderness designated by and large.
 

chuffer

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2004
1,616
952
McMinnville, OR
I think we are talking about the same people. I am not talking about some retired boomer building a mcmansion on 40 acres outside of Bend. I am saying that the same people who are gobbling up land for development on a large commercial scale are at least in the same circle of people if not the exact same people that are driving wilderness designation expansion. I think greed is one of the absolute shittiest motivations ever. Do I have to say the part about class warfare outloud or are you gonna pick up what I’m putting down?
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,931
20,806
Sleazattle
Yeah. Welcome to Massholistan where state parks are closed after sunset and cops on detail have nothing better to do. :crazy:

In Seattle there have been issues with parties of hundreds of people after parks close at 11:00. In response the City closed parks at 10:00. Well now you are really breaking the rules buster!
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
In Seattle there have been issues with parties of hundreds of people after parks close at 11:00. In response the City closed parks at 10:00. Well now you are really breaking the rules buster!
what happens when someone's in a public park at 11pm?

Has there been a body county made yet? I mean I can only assume those rules are there for a vErY gOoD rEaSoN
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,931
20,806
Sleazattle
what happens when someone's in a public park at 11pm?

Has there been a body county made yet? I mean I can only assume those rules are there for a vErY gOoD rEaSoN
I don't know if what triggered the recent rule changes was just people doing things in a park at night that you would do in a park at night or proper full on chaos. I used to live near one of these parks and one night there was one of those events where something on social media explodes and a thousand people show up and shit quickly goes sideways with multiple car accidents and gunfire. Either way, changing unfollowed rules is a pointless solution.

Generally speaking people around here are rather tolerant of the former.
 
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kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
this all made me remember this. rip pee wee's; rip nam; some of it seems funny now. first article is from 2007-ish.


this too


most of these guys are still around...
that blueridge outdoors link doesn't work for whatever reason


linked in the first response on that reddit page

fuck these idiots :rofl:
 

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
21,376
10,960
I have no idea where I am