[stoney]

Morning Monkeys.

Went to a cool meeting last night. I know it sounds bad, but the stories I hear always make my bullshit seem really small. Yes I just took a 20% pay cut in hopes my company stays afloat. What I didn't do was drive drunk and have a head on with another car that resulted in the death of a child. Holy fuck, I can't even imagine. But I've also never driven drunk, so there is that.

Talk about perspective, wow. But it is also really cool to hear about how someone has dealt with that and what they are doing for amends. That shit is pretty encouraging.

Ending drinking for me was medical forced, just by diet. I like beer or wine - not liquor. When you have limited carbs, you can't drink beer. Going from drinking 2-3 double ipa's nightly to naught was shockingly hard. I found that having an "out" was a good way to do skip that want to grab a drink or a bunch. I would go to the gym or a swim, or started another hobby to go down that rabbit hole into.

Being so financially wound up in life, we've had a budget on file forever, so I knew how much we were spending on alcohol. $18-20/day, then another $40+ when we went out every Friday was a huge amount of money. That savings ended up with my complete tool box and garage renovation, and a new bike in one year. Looking at what you give up for one vs. the other is big.

Now, after not drinking (with few exceptions for a wine 1-2x/yr) for almost 6 years, I don't have any want to drink. Everyone around us knows that I don't drink and it's for medical (though not really), so it doesn't get touched after that.

If you find that you are going down that loophole that is dragging you, check in with VA. Maybe there is some latent PTSD issues there than need to be addressed but never were? Generally, there's a reason for any slides. And the one thing I've always recommended being mindful about with AA is that it's church based. Accordingly, it's very predatory to get people when they are at their weakest. Be mindful of the trap being set.

 

[rideit]

I guess my reaction is because for myself, and I would say the absolute majority of people I know who got and stayed sober, some type of discipline, support, and routine was absolutely required in that initial period. This is fact, and scientifically supported by data.
Sure, unicorns exist who just white-knuckled it, and stayed sober. But honestly I don’t thing they constitute more than MAYBE 5% of sober people.
In addition, most of them never really grasped the other realities of staying sober, mental health, repairing the damage they did to family, friends, the law, what have you.
In my long experience, most of them became righteous, grumpy, cynical ‘dry-drunks’, which is it’s own set of problems. The ones I know still ended up with divorces, etc, and most eventually ended up back in a program of some sort.
Sure, will power is a component, but it is not a component with grace, hope, and support.

That said, I haven’t been to a meeting in 14 years, but I certainly support their mission and success rate, which is undeniable.

I used to think AA was church based, but it’s not. It’s faith based. And definitely NOT in Christianity, or in any particular diety. For some it’s just faith that they came make it to the next day. Maybe there are individuals that spew some religiosity, but that’s the thing: AA doesn’t have ‘leaders’ in any philosophical way. Just a bunch of drunks talking about their own experiences, for the most part.
There are no bibles at AA meetings, ever.

 

[stoney]

Quitting is not easy. But it comes down to how bad do you want it and how honest you are to yourself. No one is going to take the drink out of your hand,, the straw out of your nose, the needle out of your arm for you, you have to say I'm a fuck up and I am not going to stay this way. Then you have to make that radical lifestyle change. Don't hang out with people you went and got wasted with. clean out all of the alcohol, dugs, and paraphernalia from your house and life. know that pain will be involved but be determined to not crumble and win over/ inspite of the pain. You can't ever again just have one. It doesn't get easier to say no because you forget how bad the pain was. That's my life. yours may or may not be similar. I can't sit in a room of people telling stories with them smoking cigarettes and stay addicted to nicotine and wonder why they can't get straight. You have to walk away from everything. I chose a path that is mine alone. it was and is still painful but that path is why I am still alive today.

Extremes too. Per your stories, you were in pretty deep.

 

[rideit]

For the record, Eric, I support and applaud what you have done as well.

 

[sunringlerider]

Had a really good shoot today. Always good when they turn out well.

Now naps with Isla, then paint. Covering my hair this time.

 

[jimmydean]

Ending drinking for me was medical forced, just by diet. I like beer or wine - not liquor. When you have limited carbs, you can't drink beer. Going from drinking 2-3 double ipa's nightly to naught was shockingly hard. I found that having an "out" was a good way to do skip that want to grab a drink or a bunch. I would go to the gym or a swim, or started another hobby to go down that rabbit hole into.

Being so financially wound up in life, we've had a budget on file forever, so I knew how much we were spending on alcohol. $18-20/day, then another $40+ when we went out every Friday was a huge amount of money. That savings ended up with my complete tool box and garage renovation, and a new bike in one year. Looking at what you give up for one vs. the other is big.

Now, after not drinking (with few exceptions for a wine 1-2x/yr) for almost 6 years, I don't have any want to drink. Everyone around us knows that I don't drink and it's for medical (though not really), so it doesn't get touched after that.

If you find that you are going down that loophole that is dragging you, check in with VA. Maybe there is some latent PTSD issues there than need to be addressed but never were? Generally, there's a reason for any slides. And the one thing I've always recommended being mindful about with AA is that it's church based. Accordingly, it's very predatory to get people when they are at their weakest. Be mindful of the trap being set.

I have zero issues with alcohol, but I am in full support of my wife's sobriety. Weed is my only vice, but it really is for a better me and was an amazing alternative to the pharmacy. My monthlies are minimal since I switched to my self mixed vape. I wish it was covered under my flex account, but you know.

 

[Pesqueeb]

I just hooked up a computer and free tv in the same cold concrete floored chamber where my tools and toys are

this might be my last post on this website

Blizzard in California's Sierra Nevada brings nonstop snow, dangerous conditions

The season’s biggest snowstorm is affecting parts of Northern California and Nevada, causing power outages, freeway closures and avalanche warnings.

www.nbcnews.com

I appreciate commitment to the joke, but has anyone heard from @kidwoo ?

 

[stoney]

I have zero issues with alcohol, but I am in full support of my wife's sobriety. Weed is my only vice, but it really is for a better me and was an amazing alternative to the pharmacy. My monthlies are minimal since I switched to my self mixed vape. I wish it was covered under my flex account, but you know.

Oh... You were there for her. I was very confused for a minute.

Part of me wants to tell Wifey, hey maybe AA is something we need to discuss. But at the same time, I can see her getting sucked into the church manipulation. Bastards.

 

[rideit]

There is separation between AA and church.

 

[boostindoubles]

People that white knuckle their sobriety without understanding and recognizing the benefit of external support are taking the harder path. To each their own.

I haven't had a drink in 18 years, one day at a time. The first 2 years were filled with meetings, many of them court ordered at first and then for the sense of community and honest and raw emotional support. I haven't been to a meeting in 12 years but still have no desire to drink beer (NA or alcoholic).

Not all meetings are created equal and some have excellent recovery vibes. Other meetings are for scoring drugs and having sex with beat down drug addicts.

Looking down on people who have found support in meetings is a shit attitude but I wouldnt expect anything else from the ego-filled white knuckler.

 

[eric strt6]

People that white knuckle their sobriety without understanding and recognizing the benefit of external support are taking the harder path. To each their own.

I haven't had a drink in 18 years, one day at a time. The first 2 years were filled with meetings, many of them court ordered at first and then for the sense of community and honest and raw emotional support. I haven't been to a meeting in 12 years but still have no desire to drink beer (NA or alcoholic).

Not all meetings are created equal and some have excellent recovery vibes. Other meetings are for scoring drugs and having sex with beat down drug addicts.

Looking down on people who have found support in meetings is a shit attitude but I wouldnt expect anything else from the ego-filled white knuckler.

I don't look down on people who go to meetings. I just disagree with the AA meeting premise and the higher power cop out. Getting clean is not a one size fits all proposition. if it works for someone great. I just see so many that never break the cycle. Part of my job is transporting people to meetings or Methadone clinics. We talk, I'm up front with them that I am a recovered addict and that you can make it if you really work hard at it. I want them to succeed and I'm supportive of their efforts.

 

[Sandwich]

What the hell...resigned myself not to ride today since I got out yesterday and it was miserable this morning. Now it's 58* and sunny. Dangit. At least I got some yard work done.

 

[jimmydean]

Oh... You were there for her. I was very confused for a minute.

Part of me wants to tell Wifey, hey maybe AA is something we need to discuss. But at the same time, I can see her getting sucked into the church manipulation. Bastards.

The "higher power" aspect is still a little weird for her. She wasn't raised religious, so she's never really had a "god" she prayed to. But the idea of something larger than me is something she's coming around to and has been a big part.

Her zoom meeting has zero to do with religion, but there is a higher power, whatever that means to you.

There are a few bible thumpers in AA, too. But they get shut down in the groups she's met with.

 

[jstuhlman]

There is separation between AA and church.

went to a few meetings. as someone who is generally an athiest, i hated them. they may not be "religious" in the traditional sense but for someone who has never been spiritual or believed in any kind of higher power they were extremely tedious even if the overall message was fine. glad they are helpful to those who believe. i am finding my own path, i guess. i have no doubt i'll have beers with friends again but i have no desire to be the blob i'd become again who had zero fitness or motivation.

 

[rideit]

Yup, I hated them too. But it took me years to realize that it was in no way evangelical, I interpreted what I heard in ways that weren’t actually intended due to my basic agnosticism.

 

[boostindoubles]

Being a dry drunk is not the same as a recovered drunk.

Looking down on nicotine users while maintaining a caffeine addiction makes no sense.

 

[eric strt6]

I drink one cup of coffee in the morning and thats it.

 

[stoney]

went to a few meetings. as someone who is generally an athiest, i hated them. they may not be "religious" in the traditional sense but for someone who has never been spiritual or believed in any kind of higher power they were extremely tedious even if the overall message was fine. glad they are helpful to those who believe. i am finding my own path, i guess. i have no doubt i'll have beers with friends again but i have no desire to be the blob i'd become again who had zero fitness or motivation.

There are a bunch of non-AA groups out there too. But yeah, getting past the blob point helped a lot. I lost almost 20# just at stopping drinking within a few months - it was wild.

 

[Nick]

Blizzard in California's Sierra Nevada brings nonstop snow, dangerous conditions

The season’s biggest snowstorm is affecting parts of Northern California and Nevada, causing power outages, freeway closures and avalanche warnings.

www.nbcnews.com

I appreciate commitment to the joke, but has anyone heard from @kidwoo ?

I texted him yesterday, haven’t heard a peep.

 

[jumpr]

Oh... You were there for her. I was very confused for a minute.

Part of me wants to tell Wifey, hey maybe AA is something we need to discuss. But at the same time, I can see her getting sucked into the church manipulation. Bastards.

Have a look at 'the alcohol experiment'. Again, not for everyone, but it encourages a 30- day break to try it out with some quite good support info. All done from home.

 

[boostindoubles]

I drink one cup of coffee in the morning and thats it.

Me too. But I dont have an opinion about people who smoke cancer sticks or keep drinking NA beer after they get sober. Everybody gets to do what they want! I don't know their situation.

One of the cornerstones of the program is the serenity prayer. If the word 'God' is a trigger for you, I understand the recoil at the idea of a higher power.

Otherwise it's simply an acknowledgement that the world is bigger and more complicated than we can control. All we can control is ourselves and anything beyond that is out of our control. All that external stuff we have no ability to control and expectations we create around those things will almost always be dashed.

Let go and let god - replace god with "the indiscernible mist"

That is one of the keys to rolling with the punches and landing on ones feet. The cult religions have no place in this.

 

[sunringlerider]

Does it still count as drinking if you just butt chug?

 

[boostindoubles]

Does it still count as drinking if you just butt chug?

That greased up trailer hitch is just to keep it from leakin eh?

 

[Pesqueeb]

But at the same time, I can see her getting sucked into the church manipulation. Bastards.

The following is a gross simplification:

AA was founded by a guy who got sober, in large part due to his experience with a hallucinogenic. When he much later suggested that LSD and some psychiatric help might be useful for the hardcore alcoholic to get sober and/or help relieve the depression that leads many to drink in the first place (a suggestion that current science gives some credibility to) he was run out of the group he helped create by the "only help you need is Jesus" types.


Undoubtedly, AA has helped a great many people overcome their addiction issues. Certainly part of any recovery process is "community", what ever that looks like to the sufferer. Unequivocally, addiction is as complicated and as multifaceted as the number of people suffering from it and it would behoove us all, recovering or not, to recognize that the struggle of recovery is at least as complicated. We should celebrate whatever journey lead someone sobriety. If part of that process included teh @FSM, Jesus, Buddha, or a fistful of Psilocybin, good for you.

I remain a little surprised every time the subject comes up here just how many Monkey's are recovering addicts of some sort. I feel like it means or is a sign of something but I'm too dumb to pick it out. I have only the slightest inkling what any of you have gone through, but I applaud each and everyone of you and hope that I can provide even the smallest amount of support in some way if anyone here ever needs it.

 

[jonKranked]

The "higher power" aspect is still a little weird for her. She wasn't raised religious, so she's never really had a "god" she prayed to. But the idea of something larger than me is something she's coming around to and has been a big part.

Her zoom meeting has zero to do with religion, but there is a higher power, whatever that means to you.

There are a few bible thumpers in AA, too. But they get shut down in the groups she's met with.

Satan is a higher power.

 

[jonKranked]

Sunny and mid 60s today. Multiple neighborhood bike rides with the kiddos. Gonna grill some burgers and prep a round of manicotti for tomorrow.

 

[Montana rider]

If y'all aren't drinking anymore you can send me your alcohol...

I like porter stouts and ipas

 

[boostindoubles]

Fwiw - after I stopped drinking I spent years as a traveling salesman, visiting and selling hops to breweries. They almost always gave me free beer. I used the free beer to sucker people into letting me chase them around mtb trails.

Hundreds of breweries and who knows how many fresh - out - the - barrel beers I've been offered... fuckin hell, I know me drunk and I'm not going there.

 

[jimmydean]

Satan is a higher power.

FSM, Facebook God, whatever works for you. The idea is something larger than self, not everybody is cool with that concept though.

 

[jonKranked]

6pm, I'm grilling burgers in the driveway, and it's not pitch black.

 

[jonKranked]

FSM, Facebook God, whatever works for you. The idea is something larger than self, not everybody is cool with that concept though.

Andre the Giant was larger than me self.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I looked at AA at a time and couldn't accept the higher power argument as expressed. I think I still have the book stashed someplace.

The higher power for me is whatever it is that surrounds us, that we swim in. It's bigger than us and we can't understand it fully, or even fractionally, so we all create our own model, our world of beliefs, this works, this doesn't.

None of our experiential worlds are the same. Some can't handle it, so they follow leaders who fuck them and their family, take their money, and convince them to drink Kool-Aid.

My model is that whatever we're in is an ocean. I swim in it, dealing with the condition of the present, making some guesses as to what might occur, adjusting my strokes accordingly, and relaxing into whatever might crash over me.

Stuff that gets you high has been a difficult part of that ocean for me. My father's side of the family have been serious alcoholics, and I have taken that turn at times.

I believe that if you are high on whatever, you're more likely to drown in whatever we're swimming in. In this dimension, I'm not about to instruct others as to what they should do, even when I observe folks apparently headed for the bottom. We all own our own experience.

I'm impressed by and support those who have chosen not to fuck themselves up.

 

[Pesqueeb]

I looked at AA at a time and couldn't accept the higher power argument as expressed. I think I still have the book stashed someplace.

The higher power for me is whatever it is that surrounds us, that we swim in. It's bigger than us and we can't understand it fully, or even fractionally, so we all create our own model, our world of beliefs, this works, this doesn't.

None of our experiential worlds are the same. Some can't handle it, so they follow leaders who fuck them and their family, take their money, and convince them to drink Kool-Aid.

My model is that whatever we're in is an ocean. I swim in it, dealing with the condition of the present, making some guesses as to what might occur, adjusting my strokes accordingly, and relaxing into whatever might crash over me.

Stuff that gets you high has been a difficult part of that ocean for me. My father's side of the family have been serious alcoholics, and I have taken that turn at times.

I believe that if you are high on whatever, you're more likely to drown in whatever we're swimming in. In this dimension, I'm not about to instruct others as to what they should do, even when I observe folks apparently headed for the bottom. We all own our own experience.

I'm impressed by and support those who have chosen not to fuck themselves up.

I'm still wading (pun intended) through David James Duncan's "Sun House". It's been a difficult and heavy read. It prominently features a character who is beaten and left for dead in a Portland dumpster. When he finally emerges from his coma, he spends his life afterwards wandering the streets as some kind of pseudo-Christian non-priest, railing against Catholicism, "listening" to and being guided by the "Ocean" only he hears. Transcendence and Water are both huge themes in Duncan's books. I find they both speak to me, and is a metaphor I find especially powerful. I recommend the book, despite not finishing it yet. You might find it interesting, it definitely fits the theme your post. Or you might find it possibly full of semi-religious nincompoopery.

 

[Muddy]

'No Alcohol this Year' was meant to be taken as something pertaining to another Season of biking... what've I done!?!!

Appreciatively, JBP with those miles under his heels above there are something from the heart - would have to consider him to be an effective communicator and most likely a great sounding board. It's a balance; rationalizing the self plus the 'I' and 'me'. Others may not ever achieve this and won't be able to appreciate something similar in others - it should be normal to want to maintain any of a variety of levels of decency toward others. If doing simple acts of kindness are taken as one's self imposing or being influenced there's a massive underlying problem. Others may only be able to navigate life for themselves, assemble vices, alter behaviors only to have some very dark moments once they realize they're truly alone.

Organized Religion can entrap the basic human condition. David Koresh, Jim and Tammy Bakkar... it's a list somewhere for certain. Whether someone chooses to understand and/or recognize that this world we are occupying is only what's in front of our eyes and ears is a choice of their own - bottom line is one needs to learn to love themselves but also keep loving themselves.

...that's what got me to diminish the presence of alcohol in my own life. Beers at one time had my own two hands no longer be the dick-pullers they'd become. The drunken dick-pulling never went anywhere so, I just started taking care of myself. Began calling my feet 'Shoe Hands' and have never looked back.

 

[rideit]

In more mundane pursuits, I have definitely hit the point in the ‘vacation’ where I just want to come home, sleep in my own bed, and control my own routines. It’s been fun, but also really, really challenging.
Onward!

 

[6thElement]

I texted him yesterday, haven’t heard a peep.

I was going to ask had anyone heard more directly :/

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

In more mundane pursuits, I have definitely hit the point in the ‘vacation’ where I just want to come home, sleep in my own bed, and control my own routines. It’s been fun, but also really, really challenging.
Onward!

So if this isn't a vacation and you are on scheduled time apparently, what are you doing down there ?

 

[rideit]

Studying, eating, and furiously masturbating, mostly.

 

[gonefirefightin]

@boostindoubles @sunringlerider @johnbryanpeters got some vid of a good sized fir today. Stihl NW wanted the vid btw.

 

[jimmydean]

Rossi gets 4th in WEC debut.

Valentino Rossi Fourth In World Endurance Championship Sports Car Debut

Valentino Rossi finished just off the podium in his World Endurance Championship sports car debut at the Qatar 1812km.

www.roadracingworld.com