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Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,977
22,019
Sleazattle
Yes, exactly on that point @johnbryanpeters — I was going to clarify for the American audience that libertarian is not the same as, erm, ‘libertarianism’, at least as defined in the US by people like Rand Paul. He is a neo-liberal libertarian; liberal with his lack of desire to control the outcomes of the market or individuals. IMO this is possibly the most childish and shortsighted of all political positions.
View attachment 154594

American Libertarianism should be renamed selfishdickbagism
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,721
8,733
Hello all.

Got my eyes rechecked today. Prescription precisely the same as 2 years ago. Perhaps I should Lasik it up once Thing 3 is older and less likely to poke me in the eye. (Wife is getting a consultation for possible ICL surgery as she's about -8.00 to my -3.00.)

Other than that I have accomplished Peloton time and picking up Popeyes. Now Thai for dinner.
 

Wingnut

Turbo Monkey
Nov 12, 2003
1,667
191
Sorry, I'm Canadian ..sorry...
A) Facebook is the worst
B) Can't wait to have my MIG up and running again. Think it's time to step up from running flux core to gas.
C) Making anything good?
Just some repairs to the exhaust on an in-van gas powered air compressor, craked from vibration even with the expansion/spring joint I put in.

Agreed. I'm finding more and more that people I once considered rational are actually the furthest thing from rational. 'bout time to nuke the account. The only reason I've kept it this long is for the marketplace and a couple of the groups.
Marketplace is the only reasn I still have it...
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
41,801
19,117
Riding the baggage carousel.
Are there really left thinking people on here? Because to me most of you sound pretty middle of the road, normal thinking folks. Disclaimer: I am using an European standard here.
I have been roasted by certain members (and former members) of this board down in PaWN for saying this exact thing, and I'm not European.

I think Inclag is on Brian's end of things, but he doesn't say much. For the most part, over time RM has managed to caused most right wing folks and women to go elsewhere.
Boogenman too, for sure.

I do agree with the sentiment that PaWN is definitely a left wing echo chamber, as one of its primary contributors. That said, I don't think anyone gets "run out", unless they are too, dare I say, snowflakey. $tinkle (RIP) never had a problem holding his ground. We didn't agree on anything, but we did ride together, from time to time. N8 was an insolent ass and provocateur who seemed to delight in outraging us lefties. There was another guy whose name escapes me at the moment, committed Christian type, who always made real good argument for his general life philosophy, and certainly held beliefs to the right of me, but whose posts I always found gentle, and thought provoking.

My point, is that there is room down in PaWN for dissent, if you don't act like a dickbag, or even if you do, have your arguments in a row, present fact (as you see it) provide source, and generally remember that even if it gets heated, and it certainly does sometimes, that most of us are still more than willing to meet for a beer and a ride, or just beer anytime.





No one here I'm sure will be surprised to learn I scored "solid liberal" on the Pew Poll. I haven't taken the one @Changleen posted yet, as I need to go pick up kid from violin.
 

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
10,844
9,878
Crawlorado
There was another guy whose name escapes me at the moment, committed Christian type, who always made real good argument for his general life philosophy, and certainly held beliefs to the right of me, but whose posts I always found gentle, and thought provoking.
I know who you are referring to, but I can't co.e up with his name either.

Wasn't he a theology major from PA or something? @Andyman_1970?
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,508
In hell. Welcome!
This whole "right wing == must believe in god" is a weird American thing.
Or perhaps it is weird that I come from a country where 70+% of citizens don't believe in god and 80% of the rest are not that religious either?
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,508
In hell. Welcome!
It's all bullshit. How can certain people who worship heavy handed government involvement in daily lives of their citizens and of business entities be classified as "libertarians"? :confused:
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,719
2,706
Pōneke
It's all bullshit. How can certain people who worship heavy handed government involvement in daily lives of their citizens and of business entities be classified as "libertarians"? :confused:
Because ‘heavy handed’ in real life, generally simply means sensible regulation, not.. well actually I have no idea what you think it means.
Have you thought it through yourself?
It means that regulation exists to protect minorities, small businesses, the environment, so that all such are not exploited or have their rights trampled. In real life, less government regulation tends to result in the powerful simply becoming more powerful and minorities or people without power being abused. I don’t know why this is actually that contentious. No vaguely competent government isn’t going to tell you you can’t like the second Spider-Man movie or something like that. People who rail against regulation are generally trying to exploit something or someone, e.g. industry that wants to dump noxious chemicals to make their bottom line better.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,769
26,985
media blackout
In real life, less government regulation tends to result in the powerful simply becoming more powerful and minorities or people without power being abused.
when it comes to manufacturing of various industries, regulations exist to ensure shortcuts /scenarios that put safety at risk don't happen. many of the regulations that exist are the results of events that occurred.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,697
3,157
fucking ay we are a bunch of radical leftist intellectuals

Trump hates us....WIN
OK, I was wrong. You are a bunch of f***ing commies! :D ;)
On a serious note, I would not be so sure about those tests. I bet someone like Bill Gates would also come out as a left libertarian but he is not anything like one.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
41,801
19,117
Riding the baggage carousel.
Hmmm... more left than myself economically speaking, but every so slightly less libertarian. I kinda expected you to be closer to our elder statesman than to me, TBH.

;)
I know you joke, but believe it or not, I pretty firmly believe that there is both a need, and a place for a people driven, functioning, small "d" democratic government. Perhaps one day this country will have one.
 
I know you joke, but believe it or not, I pretty firmly believe that there is both a need, and a place for a people driven, functioning, small "d" democratic government. Perhaps one day this country will have one.
Government, business, and volunteer organizations all have their place but tend to petrify over time. Staff gravitates to people who are useless placeholders, organizations tend to the hierarchical, with the top few getting inane reimbursement, rules and paperwork become dense and useless.

Any organization has an actual useful life of what, twenty years? thirty? We need non-destructive ways to reinvent. Set the top tier and those who have become useless aside, provide them enough to have a home and be fed, burn the rules and regulations, start again.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
41,801
19,117
Riding the baggage carousel.
Government, business, and volunteer organizations all have their place but tend to petrify over time. Staff gravitates to people who are useless placeholders, organizations tend to the hierarchical, with the top few getting inane reimbursement, rules and paperwork become dense and useless.

Any organization has an actual useful life of what, twenty years? thirty? We need non-destructive ways to reinvent. Set the top tier and those who have become useless aside, provide them enough to have a home and be fed, burn the rules and regulations, start again.
Well, we can take this to PaWN if you want to get into the weeds about how one address structural issues of government, but generally I agree. This does not however change my macro view of the necessity of democratic government. I'm all for a page 1 re-write of the constitution, but I'm sure you agree that this current environment is hardly the best time. Though, on the other hand, I'm not sure what a "good time" would look like. I'm a aircraft mechanic, not a constitutional lawyer.