[The Breaker Man]

Couple Questions. Both me and my friend (Slater on this board) purchased new 09 red Boxxers. After a week at whistler Slater's fork is not getting full travel with both the low speed and gate all the way open. He claims to get 7.25" on a really hard bottom out (Clown Shoes Drop).
My fork has only 3 rides on it, with the same settings only gets 6.75" of travel.
So, are they overfilled from the factory with oil? Need shim adjustments?
Also, my travel goes down to about 5" with one turn in on the gate valve. Why so stiff?
Both of us like the dampening, they track well and takes hits well, but whats the deal??
Looking for intelligent answers please, not pink bike crap. Thanks

 

[davep]

I will assume you are refering to the 'team' model fork?

What do you weigh?
what spring is in your fork?
How much preload?
Have you checked the bath oil levels? Lubed seals? General once over (pull lowers and lube/oil chsck?) required on ANY new fork IMO?

The bushing lube needs to be checked/cleaned/refilled OFTEN. TFT suggests this servicre every 10-20 hours of riding.......


My strong guess is that the forks are new/sticky/and have little to no lube in them. You might also benefit from a softer spring.

 

[The Breaker Man]

Sorry, Team Model. Medium Spring. I weigh 195 with gear, Slater 180 with gear. No preload spacers in either fork.
I have not dug into my fork yet, to check that they were in fact lubed from the factory. Sounds like a good idea, thanks.
However, would that really keep the fork from reaching full travel? I can see it effecting the plushness (sticky), but the forces of a drop should overcome any kind of sticksion.

 

[Jason4]

I would not be surprised if they are both overfilled with oil. You should keep an eye on the MoCo cartridge too, it will start to leak if you have too much oil and you will lose your compression adjustment.

 

[Cave Dweller]

Air in the lowers. Do a search to find the fix, been covered so many times its not funny, can't be bothered typing it out.

 

[- seb]

The bushing lube needs to be checked/cleaned/refilled OFTEN. TFT suggests this servicre every 10-20 hours of riding.......

I'd be inclined to do it more, if you're used to shuttling 3min DH runs that's 200-400 DH runs. I'd guess I do mine about every 100 or so.

 

[dhkid]

i doubt it will be the moco overfilled, because if its hydraulic lock out that is happening, most probably you would have oil leaking out of top of the moco.

two things you could do which will help you use more travel.

1) burp the lowers, its really makes night and day difference on the boxxer. undo the bottom nuts, disengage them, compress your fork about 3-4 inches, and push down on the nuts to let the air out and close it back up. of course do this with the fork up side down.

2) you are just getting too much damping, thats coming from the HSC circuit, the speed stack as its called. do a search, udi has removed it and got his boxxer working really nicely. he had the same problem using all the travel on the fork.

 

[davep]

I'd be inclined to do it more, if you're used to shuttling 3min DH runs that's 200-400 DH runs. I'd guess I do mine about every 100 or so.

with you 100% due to the super small volume of bushing lube. It just seems like a LOT of people think that once a rear or two is appropriate......

for the OP, if you have not gotten in ther yet, here is a little how to....orig written for the Lyric, but the procedures are all the same save for damper oil volume...


damper is seperate from bushing lube. The damper oil is Torco RFF 7. You should not need to do anything with the damper more than once a year.....and then, just unscrew the MiCo damper and pour the oil out....cycle the fork a few times and refil. IIRC it takes about 112 ml of oil, but it is sort of critical and you can find the actual volumes in the tech documents at SRAM. http://www.sram.com/_media/pdf/rocks.../TM_MY08_E.pdf

Bushing lube can be just about anything (oil). You want a lubrication oil that is thin enough to flow and 'splash' around, yet thick enough to stick to the parts to be lubed). I have used thicker fork oil (15 wt), some mix fork oil with redrum, I generally have a quart of Mobil 1 10-40 for this purpose.



OK, so here goes.......


Regular maintainance: every 10 hours of riding

1 bike in stand (if you have one)
2 remove front wheel and caliper
3 remove rebound knob (pull)
4 loosen both footnuts (alen heads) 1/2 way
5 place fork over oil pan
6 take mallet and tap the footnuts into the fork to loosen the internal rods and remove nuts/bolts
7 let oil drain for 1 beer
(see additional seal lube work)
8 remove bike and place up-side down (on bars and seat)
9 Pour (I use a large syringe) 15 ml of bushing lube oil into damper side
10 pour 30ml of bushing lube into spring side (RS says 15ml for consistancy, but the coil forks can take more on the spring side only and should IMO)
11 replace and tighten foot nuts
12 replace rebound knob, caliper and wheel.


Seal lube (I do this every other oil change):
1 With the lowers disconnected and dranied...slide them off the stanchions
2 take a clean cloth and wipe clean the seals and wipers making sure to NOT get dirt inside
3 Take a finger-full of slick honey and pack it in-between the seal (down inside) and wiper
4 carefully slide lowers back on (make sure wipers are not folded over)
5 return to above oil info..........

You may see a little slick honey on the stanchions (rings) the first ride as the grease moves around..just wipe it off.

 

[davep]

2) you are just getting too much damping, thats coming from the HSC circuit, the speed stack as its called. do a search, udi has removed it and got his boxxer working really nicely. he had the same problem using all the travel on the fork.

I dont think it is the MoCo (damper) fluid either....although I have herd of a few seal heads breaking dumping the damper fluid into the lowers...hydo-locking the fork.


UDI is a featherweight (no disrespect) and that IMO is why he was so effected by the HSC circuit. Both of these guys are my size and I did not have issues with the HSC circuit in the fork. I have removed it and like the lowered HSC, but i certainly did not have issues getting nearly full travel with a fully stock fork.

I did however gut, clean, lube, and burp the entire fork before ever riding it. It is not uncommon at all for new forks to have minimal bushing lube(they have super small volumes that can make small volume variations detrimental). I would never ride a fork (or F/S frame) W/O a full go-through by ME...maybe I am just anal, but my stuff works.

 

[dhkid]

very true.

but the riders would be able to feel a moco with no oil in it, no damping, and huge dead spots.

sticky bushings too would be really easy to feel, feels like a locked out fork. seen it happen to my mates fork. most

most probably just need to burp the lowers then.

 

[Udi]

I'd just go with the burping thing as cave dweller suggested, I'm sure that's ALL that needed to be done here. Grease up the seals and oil up the lowers if needed before the burping.

PS - I don't think the speedstack does **** (after making it work in a real damper)... in stock guise it has 3 points of bypass - around the poorly sealing glide ring, past the return valve shim that doesn't cover its ports completely, and then past the small/big/big shim configuration above the piston. So yeah, it didn't do much (harm or good) anyway.

 

[davep]

PS - I don't think the speedstack does **** (after making it work in a real damper)... in stock guise it has 3 points of bypass - around the poorly sealing glide ring, past the return valve shim that doesn't cover its ports completely, and then past the small/big/big shim configuration above the piston. So yeah, it didn't do much (harm or good) anyway.

IT is an odd contraption for sure. First time I looked at it was definately a WTF?


look we have a shimmed damper...just dont tell anyone that the shims dont actually contact/cover the piston ports..??..??

 

[Slater]

burped the lowers and its 1024098523457 times better/more awesome/supple. I can't believe how different it feels. Wish I had done this before my week in Whistler!

Thanks a ton guys

 

[The Breaker Man]

Burping was the answer. Crazy how much different it is now. I can run 3 clicks on the low and half way up on the gate and its still softer than before. Thanks Guys. Never would have crossed my mind to burp the lowers.
RJ