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RideMonkey
Guest
Whattya think of the new 1.5 headset standard?
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RideMonkey
Guest
I'm all for it. I don't see whay the industry has stuck to such small diameter stuff for so long anyway.
I'd like to see a larger bottom bracket shell like some of the canondales are using as well.
I'd like to see a larger bottom bracket shell like some of the canondales are using as well.
M
M.W.
Guest
My only problem with it is that they say it'll only be used for single crown forks (or at least that's what I've read). Which means if I own a single crown 1.5" fork, I have to go and buy a new headset and reducers if I want a 1-1/8" double crown to work on my 1.5" frame...
I don't really care, since I personally don't have problems with the current standard.
I don't really care, since I personally don't have problems with the current standard.
I used to ride 1" and busted two rigid forks and then the steel steerer on my suspension fork. THen I found out that the common standard was 1 1/8" which was one hell of a pain as I couldn't afford a new frame and fork. I still can't think of any good reasoning for the 1 1/8 standard as the percentage increase in strength and stiffness is pretty lame. Now 1 1/2 on the other hand is a signifigant change that I think is totally waranted, breaking a steerer is a real pain. As evidenced by the fox forx an increase in stanchion diameter leads to a much stiffer fork, but there isn't much point stiffening the lower part of the fork if it's just going to break off at the frame junction.
besides the regulations for using the standard require certain tolerances in the headset=good
besides the regulations for using the standard require certain tolerances in the headset=good
Lighter + stronger = better
I personally think its a bad idea, mainly because of the fact that I just bought a new bike. If it switches now, and i cant use the standard, I am gonna be pissed.
Go jump off a roof.
Go jump off a roof.
I'm all for it. It's there if you want it, or pass on it. Surely there will be good quality devo headsets or reducers for anyone that doesn't want/need a new for with with a new frame. There's nothing wrong with the idea of a durable 6" SC fork, is there?
BTW, has anyone heard definitively that there will be any 1.5 std triple clamp forks? How hard would that be to engineer?
BTW, has anyone heard definitively that there will be any 1.5 std triple clamp forks? How hard would that be to engineer?
sweet idea, it means stronger, stiffer, and longer travel forks with the ability to x up still in tact. The only thing that sucks about it is that I can't afford another frame right now.....
Thats exactly what i said(the $$$ part) but it seems good, but it is a very thin market, being directed at freeriders only. But on the other hand, you could always get a onepointfive frame, and get any fork, because of the available headset kit.
Yeah, thought about this, but still can't afford the frame alone......
I dont' like the idea. Here is a discussion that had taken place in empty beer:
http://forums13.consumerreview.com/crforum?14@180.3OEoaDzgcpU^7@.ef3da1c
http://forums13.consumerreview.com/crforum?14@180.3OEoaDzgcpU^7@.ef3da1c
Sorry for the link, I can't seem to make it work, just cut and past on your browser.
forums13.consumerreview.com/crforum?14@180.3OEoaDzgcpU^7@.ef3da1c
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:Sticky|Widit:
Guest
I agree, the only thing that is gonna be bad is when you decide you want a 1.5 fork...if you have a 1 1/8 frame. MONEY!. Plus what if you have a real pricey frame. I dig the idea for a 1.5, i mean the only reason its been 1 1/8 for so long is because the Mt.bike market has revolved around XC type stuff forever and all they care about is less lbs and ultimately less strength. But we've got a new market and XC is for the minorities now.way2jedi4u said:
I agree.
Servus!
Seems as though the "freerider" element has spoken....
Hey Sticky, XC is not a minority - we are the majority. At least I can ride my bike to the top of the hill, something that I doubt that you can claim with a bike that probably weighs more than you do.
I'm with the "don't wanna buy a new frame" crowd. It does have merit for the DH/DS market - having that kind of strength would make for longer lasting forks with greater travel. So long as there is a choice, I'll live with it. It still smells like way to make riders shell out more ca$h for equipment that is already way too expensive in my opinon.
Seems as though the "freerider" element has spoken....
Hey Sticky, XC is not a minority - we are the majority. At least I can ride my bike to the top of the hill, something that I doubt that you can claim with a bike that probably weighs more than you do.I'm with the "don't wanna buy a new frame" crowd. It does have merit for the DH/DS market - having that kind of strength would make for longer lasting forks with greater travel. So long as there is a choice, I'll live with it. It still smells like way to make riders shell out more ca$h for equipment that is already way too expensive in my opinon.
hey free ride guys, dont settle for this 1.5 ****. go for a affordible one piece crown and steer. there has been nothing done to strengthen the connection from the steer to the crown. if u want my whole opinion, get a duel crown if u want to drop. single crown is for XC. i race for Balfa, i have a wolly bully for XC w/ a manitou black, and a 2 step w/ a boXXer for DH. anyways ride on fella's and chics, have a great season, cya www.balfa.com
isn't a 6" double crown fork lighter than the planned sherminator from manitou, the 6" single crown fork? And wouldn't it be stronger? Personally I think it is a bad idea, but I'm not a freerider, I'm a cross country racer type. Just seems to be making biking unnecessarily complicated, and away for frame/fork manufactorers to pump more money out of people. And aren't there double crown forks that allow 180 degrees of steerer? As if anyone needs that.
The 1.5" headtube is an absolute necessity for 6"+ single crown forks. Smaller steerers will definately snap off. The only problem is that the idea of a 6"+single crown fork is nothing but a stupid marketing gimmick . The 1.5 std is aimed at a fairly small market segment, whose needs would definately be better served by a double clamp fork.
Why are we designing yet more incompatible equipment when existing equipment serves our needs? Look for the answer to that question on the onepointfivestandard website. Notice how they talk about 1.5 bikes being visually different from 28.6mm bikes, and how much smaller the old standard looks compared to the new standard (read: "mine is bigger than yours"). This emphasis on the visual sounds like a way to get fools to give up their $, not a strategy to engineer a better product.
Notice that motocross bikes, able to routinely clear enormous doubles at the hands of abusive riders, still use a 1" steerer tube. Granted they have really heavy, bombproof headsets to go with that tiny steerer, but they are not breaking their equipment. Has anyone snapped the steerer off a properly installed double clamp fork? I didn't think so.
Protect yourself and your wallet by ignoring these fools and voting with your purchases. Buy equipment that works well and has the added benefit of cross compatibility (worth so much more than $ when you're in god knows where). And for heaven's sake, if your going to ride your bike off your cousin's house, get a triple clamp fork and a bike made to do it.
GrahamKracker
Why are we designing yet more incompatible equipment when existing equipment serves our needs? Look for the answer to that question on the onepointfivestandard website. Notice how they talk about 1.5 bikes being visually different from 28.6mm bikes, and how much smaller the old standard looks compared to the new standard (read: "mine is bigger than yours"). This emphasis on the visual sounds like a way to get fools to give up their $, not a strategy to engineer a better product.
Notice that motocross bikes, able to routinely clear enormous doubles at the hands of abusive riders, still use a 1" steerer tube. Granted they have really heavy, bombproof headsets to go with that tiny steerer, but they are not breaking their equipment. Has anyone snapped the steerer off a properly installed double clamp fork? I didn't think so.
Protect yourself and your wallet by ignoring these fools and voting with your purchases. Buy equipment that works well and has the added benefit of cross compatibility (worth so much more than $ when you're in god knows where). And for heaven's sake, if your going to ride your bike off your cousin's house, get a triple clamp fork and a bike made to do it.
GrahamKracker
i have heard nothing about this until now.
I'm not at all into it. All of the bikes that I have all have a 1 1/8 diameter headtube...does anyone else see a problem with that? That means that soon if I need a new fork for one of the bikes that I have, I will just have to buy a new bike. And the main problems that seem to occur are more with the stantions than with the head tube. I like my bikes, I don't want to have to buy all new ones.
Bad!
Good.Hey-Manitou has never been good at making a freeride fork. Maybe the 1.5 thing is the only way that they can get a good design to work, but who knows? And also, in reviews, all we hear is that "Wow! Six-inch single crown design! Wow!" Has anyone actually heard anything about the preformance??? Anything?
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RideMonkey
Guest
Good points here. I retract my original statement.
Can someone explain to me why a double crown non-inverted fork is stiffer than a single crown?
The crown on top makes the steerer tube stronger, which in turn holds a stiffer grip on the stanchion tubes, so it is all stronger.
Nice to meet you Mr. Chief Monkey sir.
Fully agree, it's so stupid this new idea. Just use a double crown!! Much more efficient structure then a 6" double crown. I wonder were Answer does there marketing research? What is next the twopointzreo standard for a 7" single crown. Here is an idea, limit single crowns to 4" maybe 5" if you increase the stanction diameter, then have double crown for 5" and up. This will make this compatible with existing bikes and people won't be breaking steerers, nor complain about flex.
The bending of the stanction is "prevented" from a much longer area on a double crown (the distance between the 2 crowns), as opposed to a single crown which "prevents" bending from only a much smaller area (or distance) that being the single crown. The most ideal would be a inverted fork, which would much stiffer and have an increased overlap.
I vote bad idea. Eventually the tide will turn and riders will want to start pedaling up hills again. DH bikes are far too heavy already. It's real drag waiting for those young riders to get to the top of the hill. Of course they are all drinking beer and smoking cigarettes by the time I get to the bottom...
once again, i shall ask, has anyone heard anything about the preformance of the new 1.5 forks??
Marketing hype. That's all it is. Do we need it, really? Newer, bigger, faster, more is not always better. Case in point: 9 speed.
Marketing hype bigtime, but at least you did noy have to buy a new frame with 9 speed.
why do this! because so many people will have 1 1/18 stuff that they will have get rid of be cause it wont work with this new headset, this is the dumbest idea any mtber any where could think up..... stoopid....stoopid.....stoopid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:angry:
The reason to do this has nothing to do with you, the rider, or your current equipment. It has everything to do with the equipment you haven't bought yet and that money that just sits in your pocket, not making any bike manufacturers money. The Mtbike industry is still suffering from sales slowdowns after its explosive initial growth. Anything that causes you go run out and buy all new stuff is a good thing, right? Your rent, car payment, mother's birthday and organ transplant can wait, right? Do you REALLY need food? If you cut down, you could weigh less and ride faster like Lance, right? Right?!!
On a side not, I heard an interesting thing about Avalanche forks not using a steerer at all. After looking at the diagrams of their setup, I think its ingenius. It also has the added ability of not relying on any particular headtube diameter to work. It could be easily adapted to fit any currently available headtube, and probably many future ones as well. Also, check the tapered roller bearings. This is the strongest bearing design available for low rpm, high thrust AND radial load applications. I wish more bike manufacturers would ask some actual engineers about the right tool for the right application. Bearings like this have "Main Pivot" written all over them. Better than needle bearings, even. Thoughts?
I think that 1.5 is unnecesary for XC and road bikes - however, it would have advantages on DS/DJ/FR, etc. I think that it would be a big pain in the ass to change the standard, though. I guess what I think would be best would be to have a 1.5 option on frames, forks and headsets, but not a full-on standard.
It's just as stupid as 29 inch wheels.
The 1.5 standard is awesome, I'm all for it. The next step will be dual crown forks with a 1.5 steertube. Can you imagine the travel on those babies?
I think people will be suprised by how well a 1.5 will work, and that we will see it on sub 6 inch travel forks as well.
I think people will be suprised by how well a 1.5 will work, and that we will see it on sub 6 inch travel forks as well.
If this were such a great idea, why didn't stay around when Gary Fisher, Klien, or who ever it was had 1 1/4 on their frames? That had to have been stronger then. Why didn't it last?
Because dia-compe and shimano were unhappy about the success that small manufacturers were having by building lighter stiffer 1.25 setups vs. the 1" standard at the time, so they came out with "oversized" headtubes, aka the current 1.125" standard, which was JUST big enough to make an aluminum steerer big enough for the suspension forks that were just emerging at the time. This is around 1991 by the way. The 1.25 was pretty much superior in every way, but Shimano and Dia-compe ruled the roost at the time, and marketing power won out over practicality.
For manitou it might be a marketing gimmick, for the rest of the industry it makes it easier and cheaper to build strong lightweight frames and headsets that can handle what riders are now dishing out. If you don't want it or need it, don't buy it. Nobody is stealing the money from your wallet.
HEY I HAVE AN IDEA!!!!!!!! Why cant we have everything STANDARD........Like the same size bottom brackets, seatposts etc?