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1.5 Standard

1.5 Headset Standard?

  • Good Idea

    Votes: 225 38.8%

  • Bad Idea

    Votes: 171 29.5%

  • Don't Care

    Votes: 107 18.4%

  • Can't we have the pork poll back?

    Votes: 77 13.3%
  • Total voters
    580
ioscope

ioscope

Turbo Monkey
Jul 3, 2004
2,002
0
Vashon, WA
Bigger is better. BMX bbs, big headtubes, fat downtubes, big throughaxles.

Heres the skinny. Bigger=stiffer
stronger bearings
bigger tolerances=less expensive manufacture
stronger frames
more welding area.
JUST BETTER
 
ibismojo

ibismojo

Monkey
Nov 6, 2001
235
0
San Diego
jesus tap-dancing christ.

why is it that a 1.5 steerer can only be found on 6/7" SC forks? and why is it that if you do have a 1.5 frame, you're automatically stuck to sticking a 6/7" SC fork on it? must you feel compelled to put a 6" SC fork on it? If so, how about you jump off a bridge?

i've got a 1.5 HT, and i'm running a 1.125 dc fork. interesting........very interesting.
 
ska todd

ska todd

Turbo Monkey
Oct 10, 2001
1,776
0
ibismojo said:
why is it that a 1.5 steerer can only be found on 6/7" SC forks? and why is it that if you do have a 1.5 frame, you're automatically stuck to sticking a 6/7" SC fork on it? must you feel compelled to put a 6" SC fork on it? If so, how about you jump off a bridge?
If you want shorter travel you can run a Sherman Firefly or Flick (3.5/5") or the Jumper (3"). All of these can use a 1.5" steerer.

-ska todd
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
ska todd

ska todd

Turbo Monkey
Oct 10, 2001
1,776
0
binary visions said:
Yeah, I had to read it twice to catch the sarcasm as well... I don't think Todd caught it.
Click to expand...
ya it went over my head...I'm too used to all the Marzocchi cult whining about une point cinq.

-ska todd
 
TankerX

TankerX

Monkey
Aug 20, 2003
729
0
The best place Fo Sho
hi all, i would like to comment on the 1.5. I personally had a breakout on my evil and the fork was very nice but i don't like using star fangled nuts. So i got the woodman 1.5 capsule headlock and it suked balls a lot b/c the 1st time of installing, it broke.Then i got a replacement and the headlock didn' work too well, got loose and i was frustrated about this 1.5 headlocks. If anybody wants a 03 sherman breakout, it's for sale at $325 w/ raceface 50mm diablous stem.
 
binary visions

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,102
1,153
NC
TankerX said:
hi all, i would like to comment on the 1.5. I personally had a breakout on my evil and the fork was very nice but i don't like using star fangled nuts. So i got the woodman 1.5 capsule headlock and it suked balls a lot b/c the 1st time of installing, it broke.Then i got a replacement and the headlock didn' work too well, got loose and i was frustrated about this 1.5 headlocks. If anybody wants a 03 sherman breakout, it's for sale at $325 w/ raceface 50mm diablous stem.
Click to expand...
First off.. SPAM.

Second of all, not even one of these comments has a single bearing on the 1.5 standard. There are plenty of crappy 1 1/8" products.
 
DßR

DßR

They saw my bloomers
Feb 17, 2004
980
0
the DC
What Frame companies aside from Evil use 1.5 standard?
Click to expand...
Intense had at least a proto at one time, possibly production; Turner, Yeti, Cannondale, Iron Horse, and a few garage-type small name makers as well. That's all I can think of atm but I'm sure there's a few more as well.

I doubt companies that have REAL structural engineers like Turner, Yeti, Evil, etc etc with big reputations at stake would sign on if it was truly a "gimmick" as some seem to think....
 
sama1ter

sama1ter

Monkey
Apr 29, 2004
665
0
The OC
are you serious?.... turner, nicolai, cannondale, ellsworth, ironhorse, trek, those are just a few off my head.
 
sama1ter

sama1ter

Monkey
Apr 29, 2004
665
0
The OC
as a reply to the standard, i think it would be great if more fork makers would actually produce 1.5 forks as apposed to only 2 forks on the market now.(both shermans)
 
K

kicknitLivE

Monkey
Jul 12, 2004
152
0
Boulder
yeah! What teflon said. Only we can do even better than that... Lets all ride the exact same bike. But WAIT, I want it to be one of my bikes... hmmm, which one would I choose?

My point is that standards, though sometimes good, can be very limiting in frame design and application. I don't think QR axles should ever be seen on a dh bike. Id like to see more 20mm rear axles (stiffer, larger bearings). Variation is good, but the application is quite limited with 1.5HT. How many people do barspins off big drops? I don't think Ive ever seen one in a video. The only other app might be the very unsmooth heavyweight trailrider. I think the design of the dorado is the best out there. The front wheel is so light and nimble feeling since all the weight is in the crown. Its probably more reactive on fast studder bumps because of this. Chris king has already proved that bearings aren't an issue. If you huck, just buy a steelset. I know I wouldn't feel safe on a breakout plus. Thats a tremendous amount of torque on one crown. Also, if you think its lighter, consider the added mass of the larger headset, bearings, race/or adapter cups and the added Al in the HT. If the breakout plus is 5.8 and the slider is 6.8, the may actually way the same with the above considered. And which one is stronger? my $$ on the slider.
 
R

RD

Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
688
0
Boston, MA
Wow! I can't believe I hadn't seen this thread until today.

People need to realize something that I thankfully have pounded into me everyday by my education: "I do not know nearly as much as I think i do."

Open minds people, knowledge and bliss may follow if you are truly open to new ideas and methods of thought.
 
J_B

J_B

Monkey
Sep 20, 2004
849
0
In My '09 WRX STI
team goon said:
What Frame companies aside from Evil use 1.5 standard?
Click to expand...
Haro, Cannodale, Yeti, Intense( Uzzi SLX & V8), Ironhorse, Sinister, Turner, Rocky Mountain and that is all I can think of. Foes did make a few Flys w/ 1.5 headtube but they stopped that. I have no idea why they did.

I own a Evil Imperial and am running a '04 Sherman Breakout. My friends say that the 1.5 is going away and that I should have just thrown a 1 1/8 fork on the Imperial. If this 1.5 thing is going away why is Haro coming out with a new trail bike with 1.5 headtube for '05?
 
FR4life.

FR4life.

Monkey
Nov 2, 2004
606
0
The Bay
I think its a good idea, but its kinda hard to find stems, starnuts, and there is only one company I know of that makes a 1.5 headlock. Also, running a 1 1/8 fork in a 1.5 headtube via a reducer headset actually makes it weaker than running it with the right size fork/headtube combo. Also as people have previously stated, I don't know of any DC forks that are 1.5 either.

-C
 
binary visions

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,102
1,153
NC
FR4life. said:
Also, running a 1 1/8 fork in a 1.5 headtube via a reducer headset actually makes it weaker than running it with the right size fork/headtube combo. Also as people have previously stated, I don't know of any DC forks that are 1.5 either.
Click to expand...
1) Does it really, or are you guessing? I can't imagine actually breaking the solid metal compression ring in my headset without other parts of my bike failing catastrophically.

2) There are no 1.5 DC forks, for the simple reason that almost no stress is placed on the steerer on DC forks. No reason to change all of your tooling and machine setups for no improvement to the product.
 
FR4life.

FR4life.

Monkey
Nov 2, 2004
606
0
The Bay
binary visions said:
1) Does it really, or are you guessing? I can't imagine actually breaking the solid metal compression ring in my headset without other parts of my bike failing catastrophically.

2) There are no 1.5 DC forks, for the simple reason that almost no stress is placed on the steerer on DC forks. No reason to change all of your tooling and machine setups for no improvement to the product.
Click to expand...
Ive heard that reducer headsets have more flex than regular headsets.
 
NastySid

NastySid

Monkey
Mar 4, 2004
111
0
Sweden
There are so many 1 1/8" frames out there so as long as people buy those forks and frames etc they'll be around.

1.5" will probably co exist for those who want it..

Heck even the threaded 1" thing is still alive and well :D

When people stop buyin' manufacturers stop makin' :D simple as that.

There are forks such as RST ( well.. might not be a DJ or SID But they'll bounce :D ) where you buy the fork and then buy the steerer tube to fit your bike.. :)
 
Wordbiker

Wordbiker

Chimp
Apr 18, 2006
32
0
Pagosa Springs, Colorado
You can add Scott to the list of 1.5" manufacturers....that's how I got here. My '05 Nitrous came stock with some hefty 1-1/8" adapters, and I've been looking over the options for forks to replace the Nixon Super it came with.

I may be flogging a now mummified carcass here, but despite the fact it is taking a bit more parts searching to find adapters and such, I am glad that I have the choice to run whatever I want, and I'm even more glad that other people will have the choice too. I've been in this sport long enough to see the cycle of haters for every new development the manufacturers throw at us. Sure, at times they have been justified in the end, but my question is this: Even if you yourself would never use a given piece of kit for your own niche riding style, why deny others their ability to choose?

There are plenty of common sense reasons to go bigger, for strength, load dispersion, etc...but the main argument for me comes from my carpentry experience: You can always cut it shorter, never longer. Any 1.5" headtube can be adapted down by spacers or several headsets made for the purpose (and weight issues aside, I highly doubt one could argue they are an inferior headtube interface, and could even strengthen it even when using a 1-1/8" steerertube). You are more locked in than you think with the 1-1/8" standard, and if you don't believe me...try adapting up to 1.5".

As for why someone would want a 6-7" or more travel single crown fork...hey, that is their choice. I can see how not having an upper crown fork might actually work well for a rider that likes to do crossups or lookdowns, and the design does allow things like the possibility of a Gyro for barspins....and I never plan to do any of those things, but I respect the right to choose of those who do. Not having a limit to your turning radius, or avoiding having the fork legs slam into your top tube in a crash also makes sense. I honestly can't understand why some riders that participate in a discipline with the word "free" in the title are so adamantly opposed to free choice.

As to those that call the 1.5" standard a marketing gimmick purely with profit as a motive, your argument is nullified by the fact that they are proferring it as an open standard that any manufacturer can use. The reason for standards in the industry is to reduce the costs of parts and increase choices for the consumer as well as the OEMs. I give the ISIS crank standard as an example, and Shimano's Octalink "standard" as the converse. If Manitou wished to make the 1.5" steerer an exclusive item, they'd merely have to patent it (or buy/license the patent if it has already been taken), or make their stuff proprietary and incompatable a la Cannondale.

"Be careful what you wish for...you just might get it."
 
Bicyclist

Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,152
2
SB
I think it would be a good idea if everyone agreed on it.

Right now it sucks because only one company (manipoo) makes 1.5 stuff, so you have to worry about converting a 1.5 frame to regular if you want to run a different fork and then it looks ugly.

I say either stick with 1 1/8 or everyone should go 1.5
 
dante

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
Bicyclist said:
I think it would be a good idea if everyone agreed on it.

Right now it sucks because only one company (manipoo) makes 1.5 stuff, so you have to worry about converting a 1.5 frame to regular if you want to run a different fork and then it looks ugly.

I say either stick with 1 1/8 or everyone should go 1.5
Click to expand...
don't worry, next year almost every fork maker (all but one) will be offering 1.5. And on the forks that are offered in both 1.5 and 1 1/8, the 1.5 is quite a bit lighter. :thumb:
 
E

Evil plug

Chimp
Dec 12, 2005
52
0
Seems like a good idea, only problem is when you couple the 1.5 HT with some dual crown forks, like my fav. Sherman Slider+, you get a really crappy turning radius. That being said, i really like my Kingfisher(1.5)w/slider+
 
J

J

Monkey
Dec 7, 2003
437
0
San Luis Obispo, CA
Evil plug said:
Seems like a good idea, only problem is when you couple the 1.5 HT with some dual crown forks, like my fav. Sherman Slider+, you get a really crappy turning radius. That being said, i really like my Kingfisher(1.5)w/slider+
Click to expand...
Maybe I'm missing something but why does a 1.5 headtube worsen your turning radius?
 
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