10 months to build, 10 days to destroy...
- Thread starter T-Pirate
- Start date
Stop feeding the Troll, jeesh. 
This land is your land, this land is our land...
Blah blah blah. In the end, you have two options, both of which require the same amount of work, but sometimes have different outcomes. The first is to bull**** the government into legalizing trails (which generally takes years, if at all), or to build illegally, have them torn down, and build somewhere else again (but hey, at least you get to ride). I'm not saying go trash your local National Forest, but what Mueller & Co. did is perfectly justafiable. It's very difficult, if not impossible, to get any sort of "FR/DJ" spot legalized on public land due to liability. I really see no issues in circumventing the "man", as usually the only consequence is the destruction of said trails.
Let the desk jockeys commence their complacent harping on the teenagers for being hooligans, making use of something no one else will.
Blah blah blah. In the end, you have two options, both of which require the same amount of work, but sometimes have different outcomes. The first is to bull**** the government into legalizing trails (which generally takes years, if at all), or to build illegally, have them torn down, and build somewhere else again (but hey, at least you get to ride). I'm not saying go trash your local National Forest, but what Mueller & Co. did is perfectly justafiable. It's very difficult, if not impossible, to get any sort of "FR/DJ" spot legalized on public land due to liability. I really see no issues in circumventing the "man", as usually the only consequence is the destruction of said trails.
Let the desk jockeys commence their complacent harping on the teenagers for being hooligans, making use of something no one else will.
I find this line of "reasoning"(I'm using that term very loosely here) to be very amusing.blue said:
Why are the people who disagree with the actions/attitudes/general confusion of these stoner kids "desk jockeys," or "haven't ridden as much," or are "ultra conservative IMBA muthas," or "have no lives,"
or "missed out on their childhood(teen) years," etc., etc. ?
Pirate: sucks to lose your jump trail. But, you must have known it was coming sooner or later, or at least possible, in the back of your mind. With so little land access issues in your area, you really should work towards getting a parcel of land and permission for the next spot.
Irie: I remember when pictures of the STINC first started appearing on mtbr. Your husband swore up and down that it was built on private property. Was that not the case after all?
Irie: I remember when pictures of the STINC first started appearing on mtbr. Your husband swore up and down that it was built on private property. Was that not the case after all?
You sound like one of the biggest dicks ever to post on this board. Just letting you know...MisterClean said:
stevew said:
I'm crushed that that spot got ruined. You boys still up for some pisgah riding this coming weekend?
I can't even believe this thread. The amount of old-man I told you so bullsh1t is rediculous. Do any of you guys even remember what it was like to be young?
RIP spot.
RIP spot.
I love this.MisterClean said:
Comparing an "average hucky ducky" to a "seasoned veteran singlespeeder" is obviously totally valid.
In addition, digs at DH bikes rock. AHAHHAHAHAHH engineless motorcycle.
I have another brutal work schedule, so probably not. I just asked off for next weekend for camping though so we'll be up there then assuming its nice.motomike said:
Also-to clear things up: I never intended to whine, to say I didn't expect this, to say DH/FR is supreme to singlespeeding, or to ask for any of ya'lls sympathy for this. I was merely mourning the loss of a lot of hard work. I love how the cops didn't give us one minute of BS about how wrong what we were doing was. All they did was tell us to tear it down, then complement us on the hard work. Leave the preaching to you guys.
A) What's your yearly income? I get the feeling your sect is already overrepresented in society as it is.justsomeguy said:
B) What do you do for a living?
C) Your age?
Kthnx?
Not so much. Sorry, just something from observation at my job...Toshi said:
Part of this is from a PM I sent t-pirate because his thread on mtbr was closed. I want to say it to others though.
At one time there were no handrails, hips or big booters at ski resorts because of some "potential" liabilty. They existed because people took the initiative and made things themselves where they could, regardless of what went on at resorts. That was essentially a prototype phase which demonstrated a need for such features. Resorts saw a need, a marketable realm of the sports, and then provided facilities as lures to visit them. Through this, the style of riding was validated.
You could write a freakin book on the situation with skateboarding and all the free public skateparks that are now so standard. Same deal. I sat in the back of cop cars when I was in junior high and high school listening to how "dangerous" it was (for property owners ) to be doing what I was. Enough people were doing it though that the public need was acknowledged and facilities were legitimized.
Buiding your own spot in the woods for bicycles is no different. The MTB world generates nowhere near the cash flow that the ski/snowboard industry does so it moves a little slower but there's absolute legitimacy in what you guys did. It will get recognized one day. It has in canadia as well as a few spots in europe.
Keeping track of your "environmental impact" is all you really have to worry about. I'm a hydrologist so I get a kick out of the erosion BS that gets thrown around where I live. I know more about it than the people closing trails BUT, I always pay attention to the grades I create. In light of the strip malls and useless development that gos up in this country, it's laughable.
Nothing gets handed to you in this sport that's worthwhile for the type of riding we do. It's too new.
To sit and criticize t-pirate for your trail access issues is horribly misguided. The guy is creating something with his own blood sweat and tears when most kids his age are sitting around playing video games and getting fat. How many "take the initiative" speeches did you guys get in school? I got plenty. It's not like he dragged a bobcat into a wilderness area fer chrisakes.
If you believe there's eventual legitimacy to the dh/fr genre like I do, you should recognize that the expression of the necessary environment is done first by the people and not the authorities. The authorities have to recognize a need through this expression before they'll do squat. A few people showing up at a meeting have to have a meeting to go to. That occurs only once a community need is well established. I attend every trail access gathering I hear about around here but I build my own dirtjumps and trails at the same time. Each avenue serves a purpose.
At one time there were no handrails, hips or big booters at ski resorts because of some "potential" liabilty. They existed because people took the initiative and made things themselves where they could, regardless of what went on at resorts. That was essentially a prototype phase which demonstrated a need for such features. Resorts saw a need, a marketable realm of the sports, and then provided facilities as lures to visit them. Through this, the style of riding was validated.
You could write a freakin book on the situation with skateboarding and all the free public skateparks that are now so standard. Same deal. I sat in the back of cop cars when I was in junior high and high school listening to how "dangerous" it was (for property owners ) to be doing what I was. Enough people were doing it though that the public need was acknowledged and facilities were legitimized.
Buiding your own spot in the woods for bicycles is no different. The MTB world generates nowhere near the cash flow that the ski/snowboard industry does so it moves a little slower but there's absolute legitimacy in what you guys did. It will get recognized one day. It has in canadia as well as a few spots in europe.
Keeping track of your "environmental impact" is all you really have to worry about. I'm a hydrologist so I get a kick out of the erosion BS that gets thrown around where I live. I know more about it than the people closing trails BUT, I always pay attention to the grades I create. In light of the strip malls and useless development that gos up in this country, it's laughable.
Nothing gets handed to you in this sport that's worthwhile for the type of riding we do. It's too new.
To sit and criticize t-pirate for your trail access issues is horribly misguided. The guy is creating something with his own blood sweat and tears when most kids his age are sitting around playing video games and getting fat. How many "take the initiative" speeches did you guys get in school? I got plenty. It's not like he dragged a bobcat into a wilderness area fer chrisakes.
If you believe there's eventual legitimacy to the dh/fr genre like I do, you should recognize that the expression of the necessary environment is done first by the people and not the authorities. The authorities have to recognize a need through this expression before they'll do squat. A few people showing up at a meeting have to have a meeting to go to. That occurs only once a community need is well established. I attend every trail access gathering I hear about around here but I build my own dirtjumps and trails at the same time. Each avenue serves a purpose.
It's none of your focking business.blue said:
This comment further proves that you're an idiot.blue said:
Again, none of your focking business.blue said:
Old enough to understand that behaving like those stoner kids isn't defensible nor smart.blue said:
Please try to answer these questions before you spaz any more child:
Why are the people who disagree with the actions/attitudes/general confusion of these stoner kids "desk jockeys," or "haven't ridden as much," or are "ultra conservative IMBA muthas," or "have no lives,"
or "missed out on their childhood(teen) years," etc., etc. ?
hey you forgot this option:blue said:
Buy your own land and stop trasspassing / illegally building?
I loved all the pics they posted here. It was so cool to see the visual tales expressed through those damn awesome shots posted here, on mtbr, and in dirtrag. They all have talent as riders and Mueller/Pirate is a very talented photographer. I don't want him to stop taking pics or for them to stop riding. I support them in every way. My hope is that with Pirates talent he will gather the resources to become a respected member of the cycling community and do the right thing. Additionally I hope that he will continue to ride and as his friends skillls continue to progress his documentation of those skills will possibly provide him a job and provide joy for those who can appreciate thier skills. Anyone who doubts that can eff off.
I however kind of feel jilted knowing that those awesome pics were from poached trails. I have several of them saved to my computer and it has kind of spoiled the beauty of those shots knowing they were from not from legit ring spots. I am not losing sleep over it and I am not going to delete those pics in some kind of moral crisis. Kids will be kids and youth is an awesome thing. Something to behold actually.
I hope they build some legit stuff. Or atleast try to do the right thing. If they fail... Then build away. But be respectful to nature, private property, and stay out of trouble. Talent is a terrible thing to waste. Lord knows I have wasted enough of mine over the years. Learn from my eff ups and do the right thing. You don't want to eff up your **** before you get started. And don't be lazy and take shotcuts. Do the the right thing and follow through with it. Build those kick ass stunts, and don't be selfish with them so they get to be enjoyed by the next generation of riders. Take those kick ass pics and influence the next generation of riders. Build a foundation for the future and progress the sport. Be pioneers. Wouldn't it be cool if Pirate was the next big name photog who actually rode and James was the Tony Hawk of mountain biking?
I wish you guys all the luck in the world.
jdcamb
I however kind of feel jilted knowing that those awesome pics were from poached trails. I have several of them saved to my computer and it has kind of spoiled the beauty of those shots knowing they were from not from legit ring spots. I am not losing sleep over it and I am not going to delete those pics in some kind of moral crisis. Kids will be kids and youth is an awesome thing. Something to behold actually.
I hope they build some legit stuff. Or atleast try to do the right thing. If they fail... Then build away. But be respectful to nature, private property, and stay out of trouble. Talent is a terrible thing to waste. Lord knows I have wasted enough of mine over the years. Learn from my eff ups and do the right thing. You don't want to eff up your **** before you get started. And don't be lazy and take shotcuts. Do the the right thing and follow through with it. Build those kick ass stunts, and don't be selfish with them so they get to be enjoyed by the next generation of riders. Take those kick ass pics and influence the next generation of riders. Build a foundation for the future and progress the sport. Be pioneers. Wouldn't it be cool if Pirate was the next big name photog who actually rode and James was the Tony Hawk of mountain biking?
I wish you guys all the luck in the world.
jdcamb
I was talking about them too. I highly doubt that those two South Carolina hucky ducky kids could keep up with me in the parameters I set in response to the braggart who thinks they can outride me anywhere, any time. I'm over twice their age and am confident enough that I would be willing to put $5,000 on it.biggins said:
*mortgages nonexistant house*Transcend said:
Jealous?JRogers said:
You are sadly mistaken.chicodud said:
Apples to apples, given what the braggart said who thinks they could outride me any trail, any time, anywhere.
Yeah, I have no idea because you have either netstalked me as thoroughly as possible, or have been follwing me everywhere the past 20 years to come up with your strange notions. If it's the latter of the two, you missed a few days here and there.chicodud said:
MisterClean said:
Well aren't you clever? chicodud.......Very cute.
You're still a douche. I don't netstalk people that are lame.
I know what biggins said, but set that aside. You couldn't hang with TP and CC on DH stuff. You couldn't even hang with me, and I suck.
Of what, you being a tool? Hardly.MisterClean said:
I don't feel the need to prove my internet wang size by going around, talking big and challenging people I don't even know. I don't get a high off of being a jackass. I would like to take your comment as just a remark meant to incite some anger in me, but given your ridiculous "challenge" it seems like you might actually think I'd be jealous of something. I mean, after all, that's probably how you would feel.
Not everyone is like you and has the need to be better than other people.
Get a grip.
Jealous?JRogers said:
'nuff said.
So he made a generalization about you...but isn't that what you're doing by calling me a hucky ducky kid? I ride everything, try to find a chairlift, stunts, or jumps in pisgah national forest, the place I ride almost every chance I get....nope, pretty much just endless XC singletrack and burly downhills. Oh did you know that I've been riding XC with my dad for almost 8 years now? What about that I've taken trips to lake tahoe and Utah just to ride XC. I plan on riding lots of XC when I'm in colorado this summer too. I never said I could outride you on your thirty mile climb or whatever, and I know I couldn't. I'm in bad shape and I ride a foes fly for XC. How about you do the "right thing" for the image of mountain biking and be tolerant of ALL riders. Personally, I think spandex and rigid singlespeeding is kind of lame, not MY thing, but that doesn't mean I don't have the upmost respect for any and all that partake in those things. Don't make false statements about kids that you've never met and live across the nation from you. Obviously Ben was misguided when he said we could outride you at any time anywhere, but please don't think I'm some no talent hack or chairlift rat that throws himself off every huck to flat in sight. Maybe you didn't know that smooth jumping and aggressive riding comes from speed and grace on the trail, as well as being comfortable on the bike. All things that one cannot learn overnight, nor can they do so by being "hucky ducky kids". Whatever man, I'm gonna go ride.MisterClean said:
Well said.T-Pirate said:
word. and you guys do have mad flow on the single track. this old guy is very rarely successfull at keeping up with ya'll but before ya'll leave me in the dust i get see to see how smooth ya'll are. as for misterclean, the ignore function is awesome. I heard something about pisgah and motomike this weekend?T-Pirate said:
You know what the really sad part about this thread is?
Instead of a reasonable discussion on the relative merits or issues with illegal trailbuilding, great comments like kidwoo's get lost among a bunch of pompous, self-righteous posts having a pissing contest where the winner is clearly defined by the person who can fling the most belittling insults at the other.
jdcamb & biker3's little hissy fit at the beginning of the thread was absolutely hilarious - it really demonstrates the IQ and maturity level of the parties involved.
Adding in MisterClean's idiotic speculations about what kind of riders these guys are and the comparison to public graffiti just tops the mess off. As if riding ability has any bearing whatsoever on the legitimacy of this riding spot. I don't care if you're the reigning XC WC champion, your opinion means exactly the same as mine and you can either take the opportunity to voice it carefully and intelligently, or you can take the cowardly route and resort to ad hominem insults.
I can only add that I doubt I could word my opinion better than kidwoo already did (minus the part about being a hydrologist, of course), so I will stop here. Sports like this evolve from those that went first. Sometimes, those who went first didn't do so through the letter of the law. This may be a black-and-white situation from a legal perspective, but there's a huge gray area from a moral standpoint - be aware of your environmental impacts, but I have a really hard time finding fault with a few kids that cleaned up a local dumping site and had some fun with it.
Good luck, T-Pirate & company. May your next site last a little longer - but don't forget to fight the legitimate battle, too. Be involved, go to trail access meetings, and above all, be respectful.
Instead of a reasonable discussion on the relative merits or issues with illegal trailbuilding, great comments like kidwoo's get lost among a bunch of pompous, self-righteous posts having a pissing contest where the winner is clearly defined by the person who can fling the most belittling insults at the other.
jdcamb & biker3's little hissy fit at the beginning of the thread was absolutely hilarious - it really demonstrates the IQ and maturity level of the parties involved.
Adding in MisterClean's idiotic speculations about what kind of riders these guys are and the comparison to public graffiti just tops the mess off. As if riding ability has any bearing whatsoever on the legitimacy of this riding spot. I don't care if you're the reigning XC WC champion, your opinion means exactly the same as mine and you can either take the opportunity to voice it carefully and intelligently, or you can take the cowardly route and resort to ad hominem insults.
I can only add that I doubt I could word my opinion better than kidwoo already did (minus the part about being a hydrologist, of course), so I will stop here. Sports like this evolve from those that went first. Sometimes, those who went first didn't do so through the letter of the law. This may be a black-and-white situation from a legal perspective, but there's a huge gray area from a moral standpoint - be aware of your environmental impacts, but I have a really hard time finding fault with a few kids that cleaned up a local dumping site and had some fun with it.
Good luck, T-Pirate & company. May your next site last a little longer - but don't forget to fight the legitimate battle, too. Be involved, go to trail access meetings, and above all, be respectful.
binary visions
The voice of reason
The voice of reason
exactly.mobius said:Ouch thats a blower but uhh don't you know the hickhucksters? Didnt their story teach you anything
dumping ground or not. federal land next to an airport ?
i'm surprised you got to enjoy it as long as you did.
i've enjoyed six years now of building on private property, with full permission and support from the landowner.
i hope you can get to be able to do the same.
looks to me like you do very very good work. too good to be wasted on illegal land.
good luck on your future projects.
I met Andrew once and I've hung around James more than once. These guys are really cool. I wish they lived in Knoxville. They ride all the time and they spend even more time building trails. If we had that enthuasism around here at our legal spots to build... well it would be incredible.
It only seems that way because compared to all your hard work, everyone else is a slacker.dhbuilder said:
It's like that everywhere. 2-5 hard workers and then all the fair weather friends that show up once the sun comes out and the dirt is packed.
I plan on spending some time up there this summer hopefully riding and building. I'd like to pick up some more pads before I go wreck myself at windrock though. My bike has been built up lighter lately for the spot...I'm hopin to get involved with whoever is building up in Boone next year when I'm at school. Hopefully I can find a legit spot up there.profro said: