With the new, cheaper and multiple piece'd 10 spd cassettes it will be possible to piece together the exact gears you want.....9 spd 11-28 with a 36 climbing gear anyone?
10 Speed X7 anyone?
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I still haven't heard the answer to the question of whether we could run a 9sp chain through the derailleur. I want a cheap (disposable) rear derailleur in a short cage. On my old DH bike I ran a Tiagra or Sora derailleur. I think my spare derailleur cost $30. On my new bike I have an X.O rear derailleur. If I mash it, there's no way in hell I'm going to spend whatever it costs to buy a new X.O. This is DH, the rear derailleur is a disposable part, and I'm not that anal about quick shifts in DH (I don't race).
It's my understanding that XO (and maybe X9?) is the only short cage offering from SRAM. if this new X7 derailleur comes in short cage and works with a 9sp chain, then there's your "applicability to DH".
anyone? anyone? Bueller?
It's my understanding that XO (and maybe X9?) is the only short cage offering from SRAM. if this new X7 derailleur comes in short cage and works with a 9sp chain, then there's your "applicability to DH".
anyone? anyone? Bueller?
The X7 was updated and is available in long, medium, and short in silver and black:
http://www.bti-usa.com/public/category/DR/DRDR/GS/GS2734?page=1#GS2734
Also Shimano currently sells a 12-36T 9spd mountain cassette. I don't buy the 29er only tech note though. You'd get more torque from 29er wheel, not less:
http://www.bti-usa.com/public/category/CS/CSCS/SH/SH35709?page=2#SH35709
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Thanks very much. BTI is a distributor right? Not a retailer?
Correct.
Sounds pretty rad to me!
HuuuuuuH! according to one of the mods over on emptybeer, Sram will no longer be stocking 9 speed stuff after june. To everybody running 9 speed, might want to start stocking up now.
Looks like shimano will be making some major inroads to the OEM sales department these next couple of years with the DH market if this is true, since I don't think anybody wants 10 speed stuff.
for everything else, I'm all about 10 speed, but for DH its pretty meh
Looks like shimano will be making some major inroads to the OEM sales department these next couple of years with the DH market if this is true, since I don't think anybody wants 10 speed stuff.
for everything else, I'm all about 10 speed, but for DH its pretty meh
and you fell for it? SRAM still makes/supplies 8 speed stuff. Why in the world would they drop 9 speed?
Yeah they wouldn't update the X7 9spd and then drop it after a few months, doesn't make sense.
I would be suprised to see sram make a major mistake like that. However- maybe they have more control over changing the market than one might think. With Sram doing so much OEM, maybe they have the clout to convert the majority of OEM to 10 speed?
Looking at the entire mtb market, how many are still holding out for 8 speed these days? I know it has it's merits and I'm not questioning that, but the people who still use it are A.) low end bikes B.) DH guys.
Perhaps we will look at 9 speed in the same way in a few years.
Maybe sram will be able to push this onto the entire mtb market. If they can, it's going to make A LOT of money for them.
And in anoter ten years it will be 11 speed!!!
11 speed has been out for road bikes for a bit nowAnd in anoter ten years it will be 11 speed!!!
look at it this way. Yea, they have a lot of market control... but more than shimano? A move like this would risk sending customers back to shimano so they could have 9spd, ESPECIALLY since shimano has been making substantial improvements over the last couple years.I would be suprised to see sram make a major mistake like that. However- maybe they have more control over changing the market than one might think. With Sram doing so much OEM, maybe they have the clout to convert the majority of OEM to 10 speed?
Looking at the entire mtb market, how many are still holding out for 8 speed these days? I know it has it's merits and I'm not questioning that, but the people who still use it are A.) low end bikes B.) DH guys.
Perhaps we will look at 9 speed in the same way in a few years.
Maybe sram will be able to push this onto the entire mtb market. If they can, it's going to make A LOT of money for them.
And in anoter ten years it will be 11 speed!!!
And keep in mind, there are, and will ALWAYS, be far more low end bikes on the market than high end.
Amazing some of the closed-minded comments in this thread. Amazing, but not surprising.
10 speed isn't for everyone. Does it have a place in DH? Of course it does. What many people on this forum can't seem to comprehend is that NOT EVERYONE IS A WANNABE SAM HILL CLONE, and some people actually just ride their bikes FOR FUN. Amazing, I know. They also don't have access to full DH runs, or lift access, or trails that are downhill all the time. So, occasionally, they might have to cross a bit of terrain that isn't exactly ideal, and a wide range cassette can help with that. 10 speed just makes that easier.
Will 10 speed be strong ehough? that I have my doubts on. I tore through chains when 9 speed first came out, and went back to 8 speed for years. But the truth is, the latest 9 speed chains and parts are pretty goddam good. I think it might take some time for 10 speed stuff to mature, but eventually it will, and it will be good.
Assuming that SRAM will kill off all the 9 speed stuff is pretty questionable. Of all the companies out there, I'd say SRAM has done the best job of being the "friend of the rider", and continuing to produce parts that make it easy to ride. They know not everyone wants to go to 10 speed, so why would they force it? I bet they continue to make 9 speed stuff for years to come, because THATS HOW THEY ARE, and always have been. Show me the last time they've actually FORCED you to change to something? I can't think of anything, and I really am trying. Other companies though...them I worry about.
Anyways, carry on.
10 speed isn't for everyone. Does it have a place in DH? Of course it does. What many people on this forum can't seem to comprehend is that NOT EVERYONE IS A WANNABE SAM HILL CLONE, and some people actually just ride their bikes FOR FUN. Amazing, I know. They also don't have access to full DH runs, or lift access, or trails that are downhill all the time. So, occasionally, they might have to cross a bit of terrain that isn't exactly ideal, and a wide range cassette can help with that. 10 speed just makes that easier.
Will 10 speed be strong ehough? that I have my doubts on. I tore through chains when 9 speed first came out, and went back to 8 speed for years. But the truth is, the latest 9 speed chains and parts are pretty goddam good. I think it might take some time for 10 speed stuff to mature, but eventually it will, and it will be good.
Assuming that SRAM will kill off all the 9 speed stuff is pretty questionable. Of all the companies out there, I'd say SRAM has done the best job of being the "friend of the rider", and continuing to produce parts that make it easy to ride. They know not everyone wants to go to 10 speed, so why would they force it? I bet they continue to make 9 speed stuff for years to come, because THATS HOW THEY ARE, and always have been. Show me the last time they've actually FORCED you to change to something? I can't think of anything, and I really am trying. Other companies though...them I worry about.
Anyways, carry on.
so much dumb on this forum it hurts, except Jeff, he continues to kill it!
I stand corrected, that is hilarious. Basically my point was that this "progress" seems that it will continue for some time.
i dont see a reason why it shouldnt. years ago, people thought 18 speeds was enough and look where we are now.I stand corrected, that is hilarious. Basically my point was that this "progress" seems that it will continue for some time.
get with the times.... Campy has already applied for patents for 12 speedI stand corrected, that is hilarious. Basically my point was that this "progress" seems that it will continue for some time.
http://italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.com/2009/11/campagnolo-12-speed.html
is it just me, or are all the links being posted, direct you right back to the thread they are in?
just did it to me too, checked the bb code and its correct. admins must be tinkering
its been like that all day. it eventually works tho
8 speed for MTB made so much functional sense. It sheds mud more easily and misadjustment doesn't cause mis-shifts nearly as easily as 9 speed. With 8 speed, I, caveman, could get my bike to shift to every one of the gears every single time and not jump, clack or skitter around. Since the advent of 9 speed, my gears seem like they're on an ever more frustrating moving scale of shifting.
They seem to get out of sync easier, jump to a different cog more often and in general, require more diligence.
So now, you're taking away pin space, adding a gear, reducing mud clearance, and tightening tolerances for shifts...all the while tossing it in mud, rocks and sand???
They seem to get out of sync easier, jump to a different cog more often and in general, require more diligence.
So now, you're taking away pin space, adding a gear, reducing mud clearance, and tightening tolerances for shifts...all the while tossing it in mud, rocks and sand???
Well, when us old guys were kids, road bikes were called 10-speeds. And that was with two chainrings. Now 10-speeds have more than 10 speeds just on the cogs. Throw in a triple up front and...more math than I can handle.
Pretty soon it will just be CVT so it won't matter anymore. That or gearboxes. And everyone will cry over their lost 10 cogs.
I'm surprised that nobody has jumped on the idea of breaking one of these new ten speed cassettes and running it on a single speed hub for hopefully one more gear than the guys that are doing the same thing starting with a 9 speed cassette.
Would it be possible to run wider flange spacing with a 6 speed cassette that has 10 speed spacing with a 10 speed deraileur and longer limit screws? That seems like an obvious benefit to DH.
Would it be possible to run wider flange spacing with a 6 speed cassette that has 10 speed spacing with a 10 speed deraileur and longer limit screws? That seems like an obvious benefit to DH.
Except we still don't have a single speed 150mm hub. Feckers 
No, you cant. Again jus tlike when everything went from eight to nine..... The eight speed chains didnt work, too thick for the derailleur, AND... too thick for the gear spacing. You can run a ten on the nine, but not the other way around.
Amazing some of the closed-minded comments in this thread. Amazing, but not surprising.
10 speed isn't for everyone. Does it have a place in DH? Of course it does. What many people on this forum can't seem to comprehend is that NOT EVERYONE IS A WANNABE SAM HILL CLONE, and some people actually just ride their bikes FOR FUN. Amazing, I know. They also don't have access to full DH runs, or lift access, or trails that are downhill all the time. So, occasionally, they might have to cross a bit of terrain that isn't exactly ideal, and a wide range cassette can help with that. 10 speed just makes that easier.
Will 10 speed be strong ehough? that I have my doubts on. I tore through chains when 9 speed first came out, and went back to 8 speed for years. But the truth is, the latest 9 speed chains and parts are pretty goddam good. I think it might take some time for 10 speed stuff to mature, but eventually it will, and it will be good.
Assuming that SRAM will kill off all the 9 speed stuff is pretty questionable. Of all the companies out there, I'd say SRAM has done the best job of being the "friend of the rider", and continuing to produce parts that make it easy to ride. They know not everyone wants to go to 10 speed, so why would they force it? I bet they continue to make 9 speed stuff for years to come, because THATS HOW THEY ARE, and always have been. Show me the last time they've actually FORCED you to change to something? I can't think of anything, and I really am trying. Other companies though...them I worry about.
Anyways, carry on.
I agree on the note of what people are wanting. This is the only site I see such a hatred for more gears.
I guess there is just no way of people understanding that the manf's are going to make what the majority of the public are asking for.
Some people ten speed is great, some people five speed is great. Not everyone has lift access, some of us still have to pedal to the top to get a DH run in.
I understand there is a Niche of people that want old school, five and six gear setups for hi end gear. I understand that for their application its great and all that is needed, but understand, in the grand sceme of the cycling world, your a VERY small niche, and the world isnt going to not change for what has no profit available.
Welcome to the world of green, Money talks
Ugh. I didn't want 9sp, and now this is just getting ridiculous. SRAM's marketing it as a step from 3x9 to 2x10, except for mtn applications you could EASILY get the same gear ratios on a 2x9 setup. The 10sp spacing (11sp? 12sp?) is necessary on the road since you're bound to an extremely tight cadence. 15t might be hard, but 19t is too easy, so you need the 17t cog in the middle to ensure that you're at the proper cadence. Mountain biking isn't anywhere near as precise, and so wider gear gaps are fine (in DH it's actually preferred).
Anyone want to bet that the price is going to go up accordingly as well?
Anyone want to bet that the price is going to go up accordingly as well?
As dante has noted this has nothing to do with lack of understanding or misplaced hate - do the math and you'll see no significant gains going from 9spd to 10 spd for mountain use. Shimano already makes a 12-36T 9 spd cassette so you aren't gaining anything other than a higher-end gruppo than LX that works with it but it would be hard for them to sell more product next year without a new feature/gimmick tacked on (common theme for the bike industry). Shimano or SRAM could easily make a 9spd 12-36T cassette that would be just as useful. Regardless of 9 or 10 spd - 11-34T vs 12-36T the difference is really small 34 vs 36T - its not going to be that noticeable - do the math with these drivetrain combos and you'll see for yourself:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/
Talking about SRAM pricing, is it a jensonusa.com pricing thing due to OEM dumping or just something really odd? 2010 X7 cost $6 more than 2010 X9 rear derail.
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About 10 years ago a shimano rep told me he'd seen a working prototype of a 14 speed cassette. The spacing was so tight they went with a 1-sided chain.
This has been in the works for a long time. I think it's stupid, and I will continue to spend money on 8 speed parts to cast my vote. I welcome the extra range because front derailleurs are about my least favorite thing. but the thinner chains and tighter spacing can take a hike.
This has been in the works for a long time. I think it's stupid, and I will continue to spend money on 8 speed parts to cast my vote. I welcome the extra range because front derailleurs are about my least favorite thing. but the thinner chains and tighter spacing can take a hike.
jenson's site doesnt mention the X7 being a carbon cageTalking about SRAM pricing, is it a jensonusa.com pricing thing due to OEM dumping or just something really odd? 2010 X7 cost $6 more than 2010 X9 rear derail.
So what they are 2010s - the current 9spd stuff that BTI carries
Jenson charges less for X9 2010 than X7 2010 is the point. 2010 X7 and X9 were slightly updated - profile and the X7 comes in all sizes now as X9 has for a few years.
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Was that when they were working on the spd grip/glove setup?
I think you're missing most people's point. I don't think anyone has been asking for more gears. What you're seeing here is marketing, pure and simple. It's a way to get people to buy more stuff. Which is fair enough - it's what corporations do to make money.
But, what people are saying is that the downsides of 10 sp. outweigh the benefits. those downsides are primarily a weaker (thinner) chain, which will be harder to adjust for crisp shifting, given the nature of mountain bike riding which is primarily in dirty conditions. It's not people being luddites, it's people asking for genuine progress, rather than simple marketing to make us buy more stuff that doesn't offer a real performance improvement, either for downhilling, but especially for trail riding.
What I see people asking for are stronger derailleurs that don't go out of whack when a grain of sand gets stuck on it, and lighter parts. That would be genuine progress. performance, reliability, lightweight. I don't see where an extra gear and a thinner chain fit in there.
Of course, I haven't ridden this yet, and stand to be corrected, but if our past experience moving from 7-8 sp. to 9 sp. is any indication of what's to come, that would explain the grumpiness of some people on this board, and others.
the best shifting setup i have ever seen is campy 11 spd. setup numerous people on it for cx season... which is just as, or even more demanding on drivetrain than dh.
no broken chains, etc.
you do, however, need to care for your equipment and treat it right if you want high performance stuff to perform. so... replace bad cable/housing, and occaisionally clean your drivetrain, then properly lube it.
alot of fondness for old 7/8 speed. and i partially share it... but go back and ride a bike with 737 xt on it, and its no where near the same ballpark as modern 771 xt. you simply cannot ride and shift the way you can now, and yes you could ride 8spd xt for a decade before it was totally shot. but it never worked "good" to start. just decent. i do have an old 8spd xtr shifter, DA rear derailleur and m900 11-28 cassette i keep around just in case...
11/12-36 makes sense for xc racing on a 34-36t single ring. 26/36 2x9 or 2x10 make sense for trail riding. i don't want a 44t, and i don't want to decend in a 32. and i don't need a 22 to climb... so the modern 4 bolt hole pattern does not offer much CR's with the right gearing... so 26/36 is perfect. run that 11-32 or 11-34. having a high performance, price point (for x7) and readily available cranksest from sram is sweet IMO.
so yeah, mindless e-speculation about a product's durability at rollout is very inline with ridemonkey's style, without question... and totally predicable.
and i for one am STOKED to be able to run the sram red dome cassette 11-26 on my dh bike. those things are incredible. light, stiff, precise, crazy durable, etc.
no broken chains, etc.
you do, however, need to care for your equipment and treat it right if you want high performance stuff to perform. so... replace bad cable/housing, and occaisionally clean your drivetrain, then properly lube it.
alot of fondness for old 7/8 speed. and i partially share it... but go back and ride a bike with 737 xt on it, and its no where near the same ballpark as modern 771 xt. you simply cannot ride and shift the way you can now, and yes you could ride 8spd xt for a decade before it was totally shot. but it never worked "good" to start. just decent. i do have an old 8spd xtr shifter, DA rear derailleur and m900 11-28 cassette i keep around just in case...
11/12-36 makes sense for xc racing on a 34-36t single ring. 26/36 2x9 or 2x10 make sense for trail riding. i don't want a 44t, and i don't want to decend in a 32. and i don't need a 22 to climb... so the modern 4 bolt hole pattern does not offer much CR's with the right gearing... so 26/36 is perfect. run that 11-32 or 11-34. having a high performance, price point (for x7) and readily available cranksest from sram is sweet IMO.
so yeah, mindless e-speculation about a product's durability at rollout is very inline with ridemonkey's style, without question... and totally predicable.
and i for one am STOKED to be able to run the sram red dome cassette 11-26 on my dh bike. those things are incredible. light, stiff, precise, crazy durable, etc.
shhhhhh don't say that around here.
It seems like Hope or Hadley should have the production flexibility to make a "single speed" 150mm wide hub to take advantage of the specific opportunity that this gives us.Except we still don't have a single speed 150mm hub. Feckers
My top-of-the-line XC bike is 8spd because it gives me the perfect gear spread without extra cogs (32T) that I don't need. 11-28, 22-32-42. Every gear gets used and I don't ever wish I had a higher or lower gear.
Well, you need to get out more then. I went for a trail ride last Sunday and everone in the group were talking about XX and that the want to go to 2x10 or 1x10 but that it was too expensive.
I went for another trail ride this morning with a different group of riders and everone was excited to hear about this. Sorry, but the triple chainring setup is all about dead.
Now, I wouldn't rush out and get 10sp for DH, but on a trail bike, definitely.
Edit: you are right that marketing has an influence and that is why some people want it, but people are definitely asking for it. Especially the roadie crossovers who have been using 11 for a while now.
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