[amishmatt]

Trail bike related, but posting here for more traffic.

The time has finally come to upgrade the drivetrain on my Transition Vanquish. I'm currently running an XTR 11-36 10 speed cassette with a 30t chainring and have plenty of range for where I ride. I have a new XTR 11 speed 11-40t cassette inbound, but haven't settled on the shifter and derailleur. XT is the cheaper option, but I have Force 1 on my gravel bike with the same XTR cassette and it shifts great, so I'm considering SRAM X1 as well.

I'm pretty much planning to go full XT for the cost savings, but wanted some input on SRAM 11 speed before buying anything.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I'm running SRAM X0 and it works, but replacement parts are stupid expensive. Were I to replace the whole mess, I'd switch to XT.

 

[Cerberus75]

The clutch on the 000 11 speeds likes to get out of sink and not work. If you don't mind opening it up and fixing it. Or go m8020 (I think that is what it is called) the problem is more rare.

 

[canadmos]

I have XT 11 speed on my fatbike and had XO(1?) 11 speed on my previous trail bike.

I prefer the feel of the Sram shifter much better. You either click the shifts or you don't, with the Shimano stuff I find it doesn't feel as precise.

 

[jonKranked]

shimano 11spd also has a double click down shift (you can downshift 2 gears at a time), which is a feature i've really come to like.

 

[amishmatt]

I have XT 11 speed on my fatbike and had XO(1?) 11 speed on my previous trail bike.

I prefer the feel of the Sram shifter much better. You either click the shifts or you don't, with the Shimano stuff I find it doesn't feel as precise.

I don't have high end stuff now (SLX shifter and Zee derailler), but that's my only real complaint. The shifts are pretty light and not super positive feeling.

 

[amishmatt]

The clutch on the 000 11 speeds likes to get out of sink and not work. If you don't mind opening it up and fixing it. Or go m8020 (I think that is what it is called) the problem is more rare.

I replaced the clutch in a Zee derailleur before, not afraid to open it up if needed.

 

[jonKranked]

I don't have high end stuff now (SLX shifter and Zee derailler), but that's my only real complaint. The shifts are pretty light and not super positive feeling.

one complaint i've heard about shimano 11spd is that it takes too much force to depress the paddles. while i don't have this problem, it was a noticeable increase when i made the jump from sram 9spd.

 

[amishmatt]

Interesting. I've always heard Shimano was "light" and assumed that was the lever force as well as the click.

 

[jonKranked]

Interesting. I've always heard Shimano was "light" and assumed that was the lever force as well as the click.

i think some people just have dainty hands.

 

[amishmatt]

I'm probably in the minority when it comes to dropper levers, I actually prefer one that takes more force and has less travel.

Don't know what I prefer in shifters though. I don't change my stuff very often and only really have experience with Shimano 10 speed and SRAM 9 speed.

 

[Olly]

one complaint i've heard about shimano 11spd is that it takes too much force to depress the paddles. while i don't have this problem, it was a noticeable increase when i made the jump from sram 9spd.

I think that’s down to the clutch. Less clutch force = lighter shift action.

 

[jonKranked]

I think that’s down to the clutch. Less clutch force = lighter shift action.

i've never noticed a difference.

 

[Jm_]

I think that’s down to the clutch. Less clutch force = lighter shift action.

No way. It's on the upshifts and the derailleur PULLS the cable under those circumstances, you are literally letting the derailleur do the work based on it's spring tension. If you are going the other way, to bigger gears, you are fighting against the derailleur spring. There's no reason why there should be excessive force required to upshift, but shimano designed it into the system. IMO, it's to prevent double-upshifts given the double-shift capability. As circumstantial evidence, SLX doesn't have the double-upshift and has much lighter action.

The XT shifter here isn't even hooked to a chain (all other parts present), so you could argue there's even less force on the system, but the point is the clunky-ness/force is significantly higher on shimano for upshifts...for reasons no one is sure. It seems nice and "positive" at first, but thousands of shifts later into a ride, my thumb is sore.

 

[jonKranked]

It seems nice and "positive" at first, but thousands of shifts later into a ride, my thumb is sore.

maybe the shifter isn't the problem

 

[Jm_]

maybe the shifter isn't the problem

Give me your thumb.

 

[jstuhlman]

Re: SRAM, whatever you do don't go below X01 on the derailleur. I must have gone through 3 GX 11sp derailleurs over the course of 18-24 months. The quality is garbage.

 

[Jm_]

Re: SRAM, whatever you do don't go below X01 on the derailleur. I must have gone through 3 GX 11sp derailleurs over the course of 18-24 months. The quality is garbage.

I *think* the rare x1 derailleur doesn’t apply to this, if it’s still made. But yeah, GX and nx are a significantly quality hit. Still rocking x01 derailleurs from more than 5 years ago.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

I would go xtr shifter and xt rear derailure

 

[6thElement]

GX 11 speed on both our fatties, but they don't get the hours our trail bikes do. I think my X01 rear is now six years old, wife's X1 is five.

 

[jonKranked]

Give me your thumb.

you don't know where my thumbs have been.

i'd suggest starting here (i use these for hand strengthening exercises for climbing):

https://www.amazon.com/Strengthener-Exerciser-Strength-Material-Stretcher/dp/B078L1KZBZ/ref=sr_1_9?crid=2VX9F6CTEH2N6&dchild=1&keywords=finger+exerciser&qid=1611075589&sprefix=finger+exer%2Caps%2C154&sr=8-9

 

[englertracing]

I actually really liked my xt/xtr11 speed.

the problem was... I used an e13 9-46 casette, It would quickly wear out the 9t and 10t cogs on the steel section like 700 miles, and it would chew up 39t portion... I went through the expense of having the warrantied steel section coated with calico ct10 which may or may not have helped longevity? the stupid clamp on system they had went to for the aluminum section was honestly terrible, the whole unit would cock every ride, I milled that clamp off and used their old locknut system.... but once i had a taste of the 9-46 range i couldn't go back to 11-46, what a piece of shit that e13 casette was though.... end tangential rant...

so, when using a complete shimano 11 system........ they shift great, lighter than the 12 speed stuff, more ground clearance... shifting to smaller cogs with the thumb, are a bit stiff. but using your index finger isn't.

also gotta point out that the clutch is adjustable and if its so cranked up that it is really hard to shift........ its probably too tight, and aside from stiff shifting, every suspension movement is absolutely reefing on all your derailleur's pivots.

 

[Jm_]

you don't know where my thumbs have been.

i'd suggest starting here (i use these for hand strengthening exercises for climbing):

https://www.amazon.com/Strengthener-Exerciser-Strength-Material-Stretcher/dp/B078L1KZBZ/ref=sr_1_9?crid=2VX9F6CTEH2N6&dchild=1&keywords=finger+exerciser&qid=1611075589&sprefix=finger+exer%2Caps%2C154&sr=8-9

I'm a rock climber. Plenty strong hands. Tendonitis and other issues don't care about that though.

 

[jonKranked]

I'm a rock climber. Plenty strong hands. Tendonitis and other issues don't care about that though.

Twist Shifters - SRAM

Twist Shifters, SRAM

www.sram.com

 

[Jm_]

I would go xtr shifter and xt rear derailure

12spd XTR shifters are failing: https://www.mtbr.com/threads/shimano-xtr-m9100-shifters-keep-breaking-no-downshift-intermittently.1150763/page-6#post-15194396

But 11spd should be ok, as long as you like the harder upshifts.

 

[Jm_]

Twist Shifters - SRAM

Twist Shifters, SRAM

www.sram.com

Why? When SRAM triggers work so much better than Shimano?

 

[Jm_]

Here's a good SLX vs XT (and discussion of the different force issue between them) write-up: https://www.mtbr.com/threads/shimano-12-speed-shifters-difference-between-xt-and-slx-deore.1175330/

 

[6thElement]

Twist Shifters - SRAM

Twist Shifters, SRAM

www.sram.com

That's what I use on all my MTB's apart from my DH bike after destroying my thumb in a stupid Whistler crash years ago

 

[Jm_]

That's what I use on all my MTB's apart from my DH bike after destroying my thumb in a stupid Whistler crash years ago

I have it on one fat-bike and it's brilliant. The problem is they come with super-long trips that pretty much insure your shifter is too far inward and you can't place your hand towards the edge of the handlebar. There are aftermarket from sram that solve this, but it's annoying. When I'm really tired, I find myself trying to "twist" the grips on my other bikes occasionally.

 

[SuboptimusPrime]

Since this thread is just a collection of personal anecdotes, here is mine. I ran the same 11-speed XT derailleur and shifter on my 2 megatrails for like 3500 not so nice miles. It looks beat down but never quit. I'm replacing it with a fresh one and keeping it as a spare over this winter. FWIW I ran it with an XX1 X-dome 10-42 cassette that was also faultless.

I think shifter feel is pretty much all about whatever you're used to. The SRAM on my DH bike feels weird to me as a long time shimano guy but I can't complain about it really.

 

[6thElement]

I have it on one fat-bike and it's brilliant. The problem is they come with super-long trips that pretty much insure your shifter is too far inward and you can't place your hand towards the edge of the handlebar. There are aftermarket from sram that solve this, but it's annoying. When I'm really tired, I find myself trying to "twist" the grips on my other bikes occasionally.

On my trail bike I use a cut down lock-on Oury on the shifter side. XL gloves mean I need a thicker diameter grip than those that come stock. Fat bike has cutdown ESI Chunky Silcone.

 

[MrBaker87]

I’ve been using a XTR 11spd shifter and a Deore 12spd rear derailleur for the past five or so months and I like it a lot. I’ve also had the shifter mated to a XT and SLX 11spd derailleur. I decided to give wide range a shot and went with a Hope 10-48 (11spd) cassette and needed a longer cage for that. The Deore 12spd derailleur shifts perfectly with the 11spd shifter.

Personally speaking, I’d spend the money on the highest end shifter you can afford. The derailleur is a breakable part in my personal opinion.

 

[Gary]

No way. It's on the upshifts and the derailleur PULLS the cable under those circumstances, you are literally letting the derailleur do the work based on it's spring tension. If you are going the other way, to bigger gears, you are fighting against the derailleur spring. There's no reason why there should be excessive force required to upshift, but shimano designed it into the system. IMO, it's to prevent double-upshifts given the double-shift capability. As circumstantial evidence, SLX doesn't have the double-upshift and has much lighter action.

The XT shifter here isn't even hooked to a chain (all other parts present), so you could argue there's even less force on the system, but the point is the clunky-ness/force is significantly higher on shimano for upshifts...for reasons no one is sure. It seems nice and "positive" at first, but thousands of shifts later into a ride, my thumb is sore.

Totally agree. I hate XT and Saint shifters because of this so use SLX or Zee instead.
Maybe just habit but I also prefer pressing the upshift lever twice in succession instead of pushing it further to perform a double upshifts.
Zee/SLX also allow me to use the 2 way lever 4 different ways. ie. behind the grip thumb push or pull (with the back of your thumb. or infront of the grip finger pull or finger push forwards (with the back of your finger)
I also have SRAM on a few bikes and don't have issues using it but much prefer those Shimano shifters

 

[toodles]

Both bikes running GX mechs, X01 or XX shifters, 11spd shimano cassettes and chains. Don't worry too much about the mech, just get the best shifter you can.

 

[velocipedist]

Completely agree, I have an xo1 mech and xx1 combo inbound to replace the original x9 mech and xo1 shifter as the jockey wheels are worn to the point where the chain can ride on top instead of mating properly.

Hopefully the shop gets them in soonish.

Also as a boulderer I find JM is correct that over long distance rides shimano requires noticeably more shift pressure, I am sure there is a Japanese engineer that can try to justify it to me, seems like a curious design decision as their build quality is high. I would think less pressure would be moar betterz, like shimz.

Both bikes running GX mechs, X01 or XX shifters, 11spd shimano cassettes and chains. Don't worry too much about the mech, just get the best shifter you can.

 

[StiHacka]

Re: SRAM, whatever you do don't go below X01 on the derailleur. I must have gone through 3 GX 11sp derailleurs over the course of 18-24 months. The quality is garbage.

X1 is fine, too, as already mentioned. Happy thousands of miles here.

 

[jstuhlman]

sry-did not realize that x1 was below x01 - should have stated in my experience you need to go above gx / x9 for durability. my main problem with those was the b-screw fixture would ovalize super easily and the screw would develop play and the end would slip off its perch. i ended up getting some little nuts to put on the end of the screw to add more purchase. i've also had issues with various areas of the housing bending, the jockey wheels getting teeth torn off, and the main mounting bolt always having a lot of play. no problems at all since going x01. ymmv.

 

[toodles]

Also as a boulderer I find JM is correct that over long distance rides shimano requires noticeably more shift pressure, I am sure there is a Japanese engineer that can try to justify it to me, seems like a curious design decision as their build quality is high. I would think less pressure would be moar betterz, like shimz.

The new Shimano 12 speed stuff is pretty nice. Light action, very smooth and reliable. Their cluster is impressive. Sram always has a more positive and crisp click IMO, but I don't think I'd discriminate either way with the new stuff. I'd be keen to try a X01 12spd shifter/mech on the new XT cluster and chain. Someone told me the spd shifters and mechs are cross compatible but I haven't tried yet.

 

[velocipedist]

Thanks thats good to know.

I am still rocking 11sp, and am wary of what my hackish self would do to narrow 12sp chains and cassettes.

The new Shimano 12 speed stuff is pretty nice. Light action, very smooth and reliable. Their cluster is impressive. Sram always has a more positive and crisp click IMO, but I don't think I'd discriminate either way with the new stuff. I'd be keen to try a X01 12spd shifter/mech on the new XT cluster and chain. Someone told me the spd shifters and mechs are cross compatible but I haven't tried yet.

 

[hitar_potar]

Sorry for asking in this thread, but has anyone tinkered with a RD Saint 820 to convert it to 11 speed? If yes, what’s needed?