Longer cage, like RaDR from oneup.Sorry for asking in this thread, but has anyone tinkered with a RD Saint 820 to convert it to 11 speed?If yes, what’s needed?
11 speed options, Shimano XT or SRAM X1
- Thread starter amishmatt
- Start date
Radr cage is for bigger cassettes than 42t - not after that. What is needed for a Saint rear mech to go through 11 cogs trouble-free, with perfect shifting? It’s not just an 11-speed shifter, there’s some mods on the mech as well. Question is - what are they?
The standard cage on the Saint does not have the capacity for a bigger spread than 11-36T cassette with the freeride mode converter. I ran it with a 9-42T 10sp cassette for a while, there's no way it can take that range with the the standard cage.Try it yourself...
Also, the RADr cage has an offset pivot which makes the shifting significantly more precise, unlike the Saint.
Also, the RADr cage has an offset pivot which makes the shifting significantly more precise, unlike the Saint.
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Another (non-lizard approved) option:
Run an 11sp Sram shifter with an 11sp Shimano derailleur. The pull ratios are *nearly* identical (I think the difference ends up being 0.1mm over the entire cassette range).
I had poor durability with my 11sp sram derailleurs, and the clutch system sucks. As mentioned by others, the Shimano 11sp derailleurs are pretty bomb proof and have a much better clutch. However, I much prefer the feel of the Sram shifter (higher end is better, but even the GX level does the job)
I ran this setup for the better part of a year with no issues, aside from lots of eye rolling from my mechanic friends.
Run an 11sp Sram shifter with an 11sp Shimano derailleur. The pull ratios are *nearly* identical (I think the difference ends up being 0.1mm over the entire cassette range).
I had poor durability with my 11sp sram derailleurs, and the clutch system sucks. As mentioned by others, the Shimano 11sp derailleurs are pretty bomb proof and have a much better clutch. However, I much prefer the feel of the Sram shifter (higher end is better, but even the GX level does the job)
I ran this setup for the better part of a year with no issues, aside from lots of eye rolling from my mechanic friends.
What SRAM RD?
I didn't use a Sram derailleur. Ran a Sram GX shifter with a Shimano XT derailleur
Sorry, I misinterpreted. I went through 2 X01 derailleurs- both had excessive pivot play, warped cages/bodies, and knuckle bolts that wouldn't stay in the housing (the little clip kept coming off, which caused the entire thing to disassemble when you removed the der from the hanger). Not to mention very low clutch force.
I've had the opposite experience. A few years with an XTR derailleur and it was trashed. I also had to rebuild the clutch at least once. I have 4 X01s now, going strong. These have lasted much longer than any Shimano derailleurs I've ever used. I don't think the "levels" (as discussed earlier) are apples to apples, XX1 and XTR are the top, but after that they are not necessarily equal for intent.
The little catch on the SRAM derailleurs is brilliant. So simple, yet so nice to have. The clutch disengagement thing on the XTR is funky as hell, it feels like it's about to break whenever I turn it off, and it does fuck-all at making it easier to get the wheel out. One big reason I switched the XTR around from bike to bike was I found it really wanted to jam my studded tires against the chainstay yoke when removing/replacing the wheel, with no real way to disengage the derailleur tension. Not that this is an end-all, it's just the little catch is so brilliantly simple and effective.
I think 15 years ago derailleurs were being ripped off much more frequently and ever since the "tucky" designs, this has been a lot less of an issue.
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You too huh?
I ended up putting a xtr 10 rd, paired with the saint shifter on a 9-42, still can't run the 42 because of chainstay growth on that bike.
I will definitely agree that the Sram derailleur catch is awesome. Don't know why Shimano hasn't adopted something similar.
At least you can rebuild a Shimano clutch easily and without voiding any warranty. I called Sram about fixing/modifying my clutch, and they said if I so much as touched that big torx bolt holding it in then the warranty was void. I'll take occasionally required simple user service over strict 'no-touchy' policies.
I think you don’t understand me. Not planning on going more than 36t biggest cog. Currently running a 10-speed 11-36t setup perfectly trouble-free with a Saint 820 mech. And planning on going 9-34t or 9-36t. But all such cassettes are 11-speed. Info on the net is just to get an 11-speed shifter - pull rations are the same or near the same between 10- and 11- systems, so just a shifter should do the trick. Now i’m after another problem: what happens with a shimano xtr 9100 shifter when activated in 11-speed mode? It only disengages the last position, or it disengages it and changes the pull ratio in order to work with 11-speed derailleurs? Cause numerous people state it works like this with a XT 8000 derailleur (which would state it might actually work on a Saint mech as well cause a XT 8000 shifter does).
9100 just turns off 12th detent in 11s mode.
Also if the 9-3x casettes are e13, prepare for insanely fast wear and strange issues.
A 9-3x cassette is offered by several manufacturers, not only e13. At first thought i can say Leonardi Racing and 3T (pretty sure they had a 9-36, but currently only 9-32t on their website). Not 100% decided on 9-3x, it could also be a 10-3x cassette (easiest way is to get a 10-42t Sram and either change the biggest cog with a spacer, or cut its teeth with an industrial lazer -a possibility near me - in order to use it as a spoke-guard, this way it becomes a 10-36t 10-speed with 11-speed spaces between cogs which would be enough).
As for 9100 shifter - if it only disengages the 12th position, why do people say it works beautifully with an 8000 derailleur on an 11-speed cassette?
As for 9100 shifter - if it only disengages the 12th position, why do people say it works beautifully with an 8000 derailleur on an 11-speed cassette?
Re: SRAM vs Shimano upshift force: If you look at both shifters side by side, you'll notice the greater lenght of the SRAM upshift paddle. Leverage comes into play, but in order to avoid having an insanely long lever throw, SRAM had to cram moar gear/shifting teeth in the serrated plate inside the shifter in a narrower angle. Hence, any play they develop in their working life affects the shifting quality in a greater manner. That's why you want to go with a moar expensive SRAM shifter. It makes for a properly shifting transmission, for a longer time.
So I forgot I had a new XT 11 spd. shifter laying around (won it in a raffle last year). Just need to grab the i-spec adapter for my TRP brakes, which is all of $6. I'm going the cheap route for now and pairing that with a Deore M5100 derailleur. I'll see how that works out go from there.
I've read about the SRAM shifter/Shimano derailleur compatibility, and that's something I'll consider if I'm not happy with the XT shifter.
Thanks for the input.
I've read about the SRAM shifter/Shimano derailleur compatibility, and that's something I'll consider if I'm not happy with the XT shifter.
Thanks for the input.
I've not heard that 9100 works well with standard 11 speed. But a 8000 or 9000 would work for what you want and cheaper. New Shimano shifters are failing a lot. They stop downshifting. And hard to find.
No, the sram upshift paddle is shorter. Way shorter. Upshift=shifting to harder gears. This should really only be a slight click because you don't need leverage, the derailleur spring does all the work. See my video above.
Perhaps you are referring to downshifts, which IMO are roughly equal. Those high end sram shifters do go one additional gear over shimano, but to push the lever that far really takes a huge thumb movement, so it's rarely used IME.
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Was given a shimano rep’s contact to ask him my questions as i was told he has done a thourough test on the xtr 9000 with 11-speed. I’ll write here what he has told me once i contact him but i’m on a trip this very moment. What issues do the new shifters have? What happens with them? Something breaks?
Yeah something with the downshift lever return spring retainer breaks. 4 friends I ride with have had issues. Some on their third replacement. A lot of internet experience says the same thing.
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Long overdue reply/update:
The Deore M5100 derailleur is designed for a larger cassette, even with 11 speed, so it didn't work for me and went in the spare parts bin. Ended up with an SLX M7000 derailleur instead. Happy with the result, shifting is clean, and I have a 40T bail out gear now.
The fresh drivetrain reveled my 30T Chromag chainring was really worn and causing some noise/drag/roughness, so I threw on a SRAM 32T I had laying around. The offset is wrong, and it's pretty tight to the chainstay, but keeping an eye on it and no problems so far.
I agree with the comments about the upshifts being harder than necessary. If I had one complaint about Shimano shifters in the past, it's that they were so easy and light I wasn't always sure if I had completed a shift. This XT shifter leaves no question, I know when I've shifted, but it's notchy feeling compared to the old 10 speed stuff.
The Deore M5100 derailleur is designed for a larger cassette, even with 11 speed, so it didn't work for me and went in the spare parts bin. Ended up with an SLX M7000 derailleur instead. Happy with the result, shifting is clean, and I have a 40T bail out gear now.
The fresh drivetrain reveled my 30T Chromag chainring was really worn and causing some noise/drag/roughness, so I threw on a SRAM 32T I had laying around. The offset is wrong, and it's pretty tight to the chainstay, but keeping an eye on it and no problems so far.
I agree with the comments about the upshifts being harder than necessary. If I had one complaint about Shimano shifters in the past, it's that they were so easy and light I wasn't always sure if I had completed a shift. This XT shifter leaves no question, I know when I've shifted, but it's notchy feeling compared to the old 10 speed stuff.