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13yo road racing moto rider dies in accident

Gex

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2004
1,112
0
Seattle
This was a big deal on the talk radio around here. The kid was quite the up and coming moto star. Sad to hear the way it ended for him.
 

blackohio

Generous jaywalker
Mar 12, 2009
2,773
122
Hellafornia. Formerly stumptown.
wtf, 13?
no 13yo should be road racing motorcycles.
what was the family thinking? 12-13yo road racing 125cc two-strokes would be a good idea?

those engines are good for a least 90mph....

http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/2010/usgpru-lenz-crash-saddens-indy-motogp
why not? Its probably a hell of alot safer than skateboarding. By the time I was 13 I had already broken 2 ankles, 1 wrist and 1 arm.

Its not like leeting kids race DH is alot safer either. It was a accident, freak at that. plenty of kids die in swimming pools, are you going to suggest that is unsafe?
 

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
So if a kid rides downhill and crashes the parents are stupid?
I mean moto isnt the safest thing in the world but is it really that more risky then what hunderds of thousands of other kids are doing?
Accidents happen, its the risk of doing action sports.
Everyone is allways so stoked to see a kid rip it up but as soon as something bad happens the parents are assholes?



RIP Lil ripper.
 
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ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,147
796
Lima, Peru, Peru
well, of course there are levels of risk, and yes dh racing is dangerous...
but drawing the line at "anything that would otherwise require you to have a driver license" would seem reasonable.
 

4xBoy

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2006
7,016
2,849
Minneapolis
19 year old Shoya Tomizawa died a week later, was he to young to race?

What day of a persons life is the first day they should be allowed to compete?

R.I.P. to both of the riders.
 

Mr Jones

Turbo Monkey
Nov 12, 2007
1,475
0
I've been DH and XC racing since I was 10. I honestly believe that competeing at such a young age has taught me the good sportsmanship and fair competitiveness that many adults are lacking. At my last short track race, my girls (6 and 8) asked me when will they be old enough to start racing. Made me and my wife smile. Told them soon, very soon.
 

pZyteX

Monkey
Jan 28, 2003
294
0
Amsterdam
well, of course there are levels of risk, and yes dh racing is dangerous...
but drawing the line at "anything that would otherwise require you to have a driver license" would seem reasonable.
I don't get it, he probably had a racing license so that's a license to drive on race tracks. So what's the otherwise about?
 

Leppah

Turbo Monkey
Mar 12, 2008
2,294
3
Utar
That sucks for that kid and the parents. At least the kid went out doing something that he loves.
This kind of thing could happen in just about any sport. I'm sure he had all of the protective gear. I wouldn't think they'd let just any 13 year old out on the race track.
 

zdubyadubya

Turbo Monkey
Apr 13, 2008
1,273
96
Ellicott City, MD
That sucks for that kid and the parents. At least the kid went out doing something that he loves.
This kind of thing could happen in just about any sport. I'm sure he had all of the protective gear. I wouldn't think they'd let just any 13 year old out on the race track.
He died from being run over by a bike that was behind him when he went down... And yes, it was a sanctioned and professional race so all necessary precautions were in place. I feel as much for the 13 yr old kid who accidentally killed a fellow competitor as much as I feel for the family who lost their little racer.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,147
796
Lima, Peru, Peru
I don't get it, he probably had a racing license so that's a license to drive on race tracks. So what's the otherwise about?
there is a pretty sound reason people arent normally allowed to drive until they are 16-18yo.

13 is way too young to sail the world solo, road race motorcycles (and most forms of motorsports, SPECIALLY moto road-racing), climb everest, base jump...
where i draw the line?

well, i dont have time to dig the internet for sources... but if am not mistaken i remember reading some peer-reviewed data claiming mountaineering and motorcycling among the deadliest in terms of death rate per 1000 hours of activity.
the jump in the curve of death rates from other sports like cycling, football, etc was significant to consider the "line" for kids to be drawn below motorcycling.
 

Leppah

Turbo Monkey
Mar 12, 2008
2,294
3
Utar
He died from being run over by a bike that was behind him when he went down... And yes, it was a sanctioned and professional race so all necessary precautions were in place. I feel as much for the 13 yr old kid who accidentally killed a fellow competitor as much as I feel for the family who lost their little racer.
Yeah, that's gotta be tough for the kid that ran him down. I'm sure he's pointing all of the blame to himself. Hard for a youngster like that to understand that it's part of the game.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,942
13,135
Portland, OR
Valentino Rossi raced go karts at 10, motos at 12 and look at him now. (103 victories, 77 x MotoGP/500cc, 14 x 250cc, 12 x 125cc). Would he be an 8 time moto gp world champion if he would have started at 18?

If the kid would have been hit by a bus crossing the street, would you say he shouldn't have been crossing the street at 13?

RIP little man, and best of luck to the kid who hit him. I can't even imagine that at 13.
 
there is a pretty sound reason people arent normally allowed to drive until they are 16-18yo.
These kids arent normal people(very far from it). What should we do ban motorsports for anyone under 20? What makes doing it at 13 sooooo different than doing it a 16,17,18,or 50? These kids have been riding since probably 3 so at 13 he has loads more skill and talent than most wankers of the public roads. As stated above I am glad you were not my father and I pray that people with rubbish ideas about things they do not have any business sticking their nose's in never come to power. Why don't we only let out kids participate in safe sports like futbol where they dont have to get hurt they can just pretend to:thumbsdown:

This and what happend to Tomizawa this weekend is very sad but just think how anything could happen in normal life to take you out. I dont know but I would rather go out like this than weeing into bag with tubes coming out of me in some nursing home when I am 90.

R.I.P. guys.
 
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MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Your parents are not supposed to be your friends. They are supposed to be looking out for your best interests until you're at least 18.

I know nothing of this incident....or road moto's for that matter. Could this have been avoided with lighter, slower bikes? (I'm actually asking)
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,147
796
Lima, Peru, Peru
No. It was a low speed crash in turn 4 and as stated above another kid ran him over. It was on the warm up lap so they were not even racing. It was just a freak accident.
yeah, fatalities in motorsports are freak accidents... like dying in a freak gasoline-fight accident....

my point is, there are certain activities which are far too dangerous for a 13yo...
whats the minimum, 15, 16, 17???... i dont know really, but 13 certainly is far too young to grasp many important concepts, like risks, or handling accidental manslaughter for instance, which some kid will now have to deal with for years to come...

doesnt matter even if you are 10x better driver than average, or if you are freaking jesus in a thong (i really dont see the relevance of either points here, am not arguing skills or whatever, but emotional maturity, which is very unlikely fully developed in 13yo boys who are into riding bikes elbow to elbow at 90mph)...

This and what happend to Tomizawa this weekend is very sad but just think how anything could happen in normal life to take you out. I dont know but I would rather go out like this than weeing into bag with tubes coming out of me in some nursing home when I am 90.
yeah, am pretty youd actually prefer that than miss stupid little experiences things like having a real long-term girlfriend, or the first time you get to have sex for a whole getwaway week, roadtripping in spring break with your buddies, raising a kid or not having your mom and dad burying you...:rolleyes:
 
yeah, fatalities in motorsports are freak accidents... like dying in a freak gasoline-fight accident....

my point is, there are certain activities which are far too dangerous for a 13yo...
whats the minimum, 15, 16, 17???... i dont know really, but 13 certainly is far too young to grasp many important concepts, like risks, or handling accidental manslaughter for instance, which some kid will now have to deal with for years to come...

doesnt matter even if you are 10x better driver than average, or if you are freaking jesus in a thong (i really dont see the relevance of either points here, am not arguing skills or whatever, but emotional maturity, which is very unlikely fully developed in 13yo boys who are into riding bikes elbow to elbow at 90mph)...



yeah, am pretty youd actually prefer that than miss stupid little experiences things like having a real long-term girlfriend, or the first time you get to have sex for a whole getwaway week, roadtripping in spring break with your buddies, raising a kid or not having your mom and dad burying you...:rolleyes:
You need to read the link you posted up. It was NOT a RACING crash at 90mph elbow to elbow. It was on the parade lap(not a race speeds). I never said that motorsports fatality's are always freak accidents. And if you look at the article again there has never been a death until now in USGPRU in the nine year history. Also the USGPRU is a domestic series and they are not world travelers out there on there own.

Yeah 16 year old kids are way more mature than 13 year olds. For F#$ks sake! You dont have a clue. If you had actually spent time around sports like this you would know the level these guys are at even though the age numbers dont look like much. My younger brother road races(he was on track with some of these guys in that race just a few weeks ago and was at the race when it happened) and I have been in and around moto for over twenty years. How exaclty do you go about doing these sports if you dont touch anything until you are a legal adult?

The last bit all I was trying to say that at least they went doing something they loved. Both my younger brothers race one cars and the other moto and I know there is that chance that the worst can happen and so do they but it is what they love to do and who they are. I dont have anything more to say or prove to you because you are not changing you mind. Good luck with you health and safety rant.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
Motorcycle riders are going to have to take a hit on this one.

People have to understand: the only number acceptable when it comes to kids and fatalities is zero.

We could argue risk and reward for years, but that fact is still the same.

P.S. One of the teenagers on my mountain biking team collapsed after he bonked hard. I was so afraid when I drove to the hospital that I would have to explain what happened.

Thankfully, one IV later and he was in BK munching down a value meal that night.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,942
13,135
Portland, OR
I know nothing....or road moto's for that matter. Could this have been avoided with lighter, slower bikes? (I'm actually asking)
Yes, slower bikes raced while wearing sumo suits on a track made of foam surrounded by padded walls. Use re-stricter plates limiting them to 4mph. They should also be required to have training wheels until they are 15.5 and can pass drivers education.

Might also want to do it indoors because you don't want young kids exposed to the elements too early.
 

pZyteX

Monkey
Jan 28, 2003
294
0
Amsterdam
there is a pretty sound reason people arent normally allowed to drive until they are 16-18yo.

13 is way too young to sail the world solo, road race motorcycles (and most forms of motorsports, SPECIALLY moto road-racing), climb everest, base jump...
where i draw the line?

well, i dont have time to dig the internet for sources... but if am not mistaken i remember reading some peer-reviewed data claiming mountaineering and motorcycling among the deadliest in terms of death rate per 1000 hours of activity.
the jump in the curve of death rates from other sports like cycling, football, etc was significant to consider the "line" for kids to be drawn below motorcycling.
The point is he was allowed to drive on the track he has a license for that.

Now about the death rate. I'm assuming that's for riding motorcycles on public roads, which is a lot more dangerous than riding on a track plus I'd rather go down with a kid like this behind me than some random trackday rider in the novice group.
What about kids doing motox they usually start even younger than they do with roadracing should we ban that too?
Heck should we even allow children to ride shotgun with parents who are bad drivers, should there be a special license for being allowed to drive with a kid in the car. I'm pretty sure more kids die from car accidents than from racing motorcycles. Should car's even be allowed near children in general?

Here's a good article on the subject http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2010/08/fox-news-sensationalizes-peter-lenz-death/

And more importantly here's a video of the kid doing what he loved.
 

DirtMcGirk

<b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm
Feb 21, 2008
6,379
1
Oz
While I at first gave the Lenz family the "Parents of the Year" award, I had to stop and think about it for a few more minutes.

I started skiing when I was 2. When I was 8 I was on a ski team, racing all over the country. When I was 12 I was part of the JO program. When I was 15 I went down hard at Hood, slid into a rock garden, woke up 15 days later.

Do I regret any of it? No.
Did I almost buy the farm on that day, and may others prior to it? Yup.

Some kids are different. You can't control that sort of different. Its best to try to harness it, which from all accounts is what the Lenz family did with this kid.

The odds of getting out of life alive are 0.
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Yes, slower bikes raced while wearing sumo suits on a track made of foam surrounded by padded walls. Use re-stricter plates limiting them to 4mph. They should also be required to have training wheels until they are 15.5 and can pass drivers education.

Might also want to do it indoors because you don't want young kids exposed to the elements too early.
I'm actually not passing judgment on this one. I really know nothing about the sport....beyond the obvious. And it's not like the desert race where morons put themselves in harms way. He was wearing proper gear and safety precautions were in place etc etc. Maybe this was just a freak event. This one lies right on the line for me. And I'm not sure which side I'm on.

Something like the teenage girls being sent out to sail around the world on their own, THAT is pure negligence.

But it does call into the question the series itself. So this kid bit it on a parade lap. But he, and a bunch of kids like him, regularly fly around a track at (apparently) 90 mph. Having reservations about that fact I don't think equates to wanting to bubble wrap them and hide them from the sun. Maybe I'm naive, but to me a 13-yr-old should be racing BMX or something.
 

chicodude

The Spooninator
Mar 28, 2004
1,054
2
Paradise
While I at first gave the Lenz family the "Parents of the Year" award, I had to stop and think about it for a few more minutes.

I started skiing when I was 2. When I was 8 I was on a ski team, racing all over the country. When I was 12 I was part of the JO program. When I was 15 I went down hard at Hood, slid into a rock garden, woke up 15 days later.

Do I regret any of it? No.
Did I almost buy the farm on that day, and may others prior to it? Yup.
.
Is there a wiki page dedicated to you yet? if not there should be.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
As participants in an "extreme" sport, there is a possibility of severe injury.

But there is no point comparing crashes on the track versus on the street. We have all laughed at the squids and methheads that roll around, and this is certainly not that.

One problem is that there is no way to convince me, a bicycle racer and motorcycle rider, that the possibility of severe injury is mostly avoidable when riding motorcycles.

But I suppose that logic could be applied to virtually any extreme sport, although.
 

jsg04

Monkey
Aug 29, 2006
564
0
What about kids doing motox they usually start even younger than they do with roadracing should we ban that too?
Yeah... we probably should not tell these people that there are lots of 4-6 year olds racing hopped up Cobras and KTMs.

Not to mention that there are 13 year olds faster then most local pros. I guess someone should tell this kid it is too dangerous since he is 13 and he should go play Xbox inside if he wants to get extreme.

 
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Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Quoted for awsomeness...

Some people here should get a clue. We might as well ban children from swimmingpools, all motorized sports, skate boarding, surfing or anything in the ocean/water really, BMX, Downhill, Ski/Snowboarding, mountainbiking etc etc.

Im sure accidents happen in just about any form of recreation... Should we just ban having fun all together?
Course there is a limit, but a 13 year old riding a 125cc motobike? Come on...
 

DirtMcGirk

<b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm
Feb 21, 2008
6,379
1
Oz
We didn't have it through schools. It was through the local racing program, Far West.

Wiki thought I was too special for its page.

I can pretty much say without hesitation that this kid was faster than any of us could hope to be on a street bike. Why keep him back? So there's a chance of death? So what. You can get killed walking to school, kidnapped at the playground, molested by a priest. I can think of worse ways to live and die, even if he was so young.
 

Quo Fan

don't make me kick your ass
30 years ago, this discussion would never have happened. It would have been "Gee, too bad the kid got killed" not "We need to make extreme sports safer". I see this as the problem with America. We are becoming too much of a "you should never be able to injure yourself while doing anything" country, and I partially blame the lawyers (Dirt excluded). This country had become "I did something really stupid, got hurt and it is because (insert product here) didn't have a label saying I shouldn't use it in a manner not intended by the manufacturer. So I'm going to sue the pants off everybody and everything associated with me being stupid and getting hurt. I refuse to take any personal responsibility for my own actions."
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
30 years ago, this discussion would never have happened. It would have been "Gee, too bad the kid got killed" not "We need to make extreme sports safer". I see this as the problem with America. We are becoming too much of a "you should never be able to injure yourself while doing anything" country, and I partially blame the lawyers (Dirt excluded). This country had become "I did something really stupid, got hurt and it is because (insert product here) didn't have a label saying I shouldn't use it in a manner not intended by the manufacturer. So I'm going to sue the pants off everybody and everything associated with me being stupid and getting hurt. I refuse to take any personal responsibility for my own actions."
Look I'm against over-pussification too. But the key to what you just said is this:
So I'm going to sue the pants off everybody and everything associated with me being stupid and getting hurt. I refuse to take any personal responsibility for my own actions.

I totlly agree with your sentiment. And that works just fine when you're talking about yourself, a presumably responsible adult. But parents are making decisions for children here. It is assumed that you are weighing all of the factors and making a decision for yourself. A 12-yr old does not have the ability to make an informed decision when it comes to this kind of stuff. That's where the parents need to step in and weigh all the factors. Like "will you die at 13", or "will you have to live with the fact that you killed someone accidentally at 12?". Or "While I may be highly skilled, maybe the moron next to me is not and he might kill me accidentally?" These are decisions kids cannot make and that parents need to make for their kids.

(and quite frankly, I'll bet it's YEARS before the kid who ran over him really, and I mean REALLY understands what happened.

You also mentioned "30 years ago". Did they have a racing class for 12-16yr-olds to race at 90 mph back then? There's a lot of "grown up stuff" that is now available to kids that was not "back in the day".

And the argument that "well you can get killed crossing the street" is BS. Of course you can. But there is an inherent risk factor associated with everything. (The freak gasoline fight accident factor). And while all can be lethal, I'm guessing that racing motorcycles is likley more risky that crossing the street, or flying commercially, or racing BMX or skiing.......but likley less risky that sailing around the world alone.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, whenever this argument comes up here, it's always the people who don't have kids who are very flippant about this. 7 years ago I likely would have been right there with you.

And I will also qualify everything above by saying that I do this this particular incident was just a freak event. And I know guys like Michael Schumacher and Jacques Villeneuve were all racing high-end go-karts from a very young age. And everything worked out just fine.
 

Quo Fan

don't make me kick your ass
I have kids, ranging in ages from 25 to 29. I have always taught them to be personally responsible for their own actions, though the mother of my daughters taught them that everything that happens to them is because someone else was "out to get them" for something.

Like others have said in this thread, you could get killed walking across the street. Stuff happens, and people die because of stuff happening. Sometimes, your number comes up, and there is nothing you can do about it. I empathize with the kid that ran over the other one, but again, it was a freak accident.

What if the kids were playing Little League and one kid hit a line drive and beaned the pitcher and killed him? Would you be arguing as vehemently about this? What I'm saying is that there are inherent dangers in life in general, and when your number comes up on the big register, regardless of where you are, you get cashed in. Sometimes others are devastated emotionally, but that is life. Are we going to insulate the entire population from doing anything because of the POTENTIAL for injury? To anyone? I, for one, certainly hope not.

30 years ago, kids were riding around, making ramps to jump their bikes off, and crashing while not wearing helmets. Is making them wear helmets a good thing? Yes, in my opinion, it is. But on the flip side, as much as parents don't like to hear this, children need to learn some things the hard way, and that means getting hurt. Physically and emotionally. I don't mean laid up in the hospital for 8 months on the brink of death hurt, but bumps and bruises, cuts and scrapes. It seems to me, that parents today want to insulate their kids to anything that will make them anything but happy, and I see that as a bad thing.
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Well the whole "when your number comes up" thing is a theological debate. Not sure it's relevant.

And yes....I'm all for my kids getting bumps and bruises. (not on the face.....they are way to pretty). maybe even the odd broken bone. Ok I'm not ALL FOR IT....that would be messed up. But I accept that it can happen.

And yes, building bike ramps and jumping off of monkey bars and all that stuff.....all good....shall we say, "potential life lessons". But that it a completely different order of magnitude than racing moto GP isn't it? I don't understand how people are comparing racing moto GP to building a rickety bike ramp.

And I'll admit that maybe my point of view is skewed.....perhaps unfairly on my part, because I have only have daughters. I might be less freaky about this if I had sons.
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
40,494
9,524
so in conclusion......

if you are not careful.....your kid could die doing something he likes.

if you are careful...your kid could die doing something he likes.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,147
796
Lima, Peru, Peru
so in conclusion......

if you are not careful.....your kid could die doing something he likes.

if you are careful...your kid could die doing something he likes.
yeah, we can conclude freak gasoline-fight accidents do actually happen... who´d have thought?
 

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
How about swimming? I bet a lot more kids die in the ocean or in a pool then racing motobikes. Even in percentage.
Even if its not more then racing bikes, a LOT of kids die in water. And I mean a LOT.
Kids that are younger then 13, and I mean a LOT younger.

So now all parents that let their kid swim are irresponsible assholes?

Unintentional Drowning: Fact Sheet
How big is the problem?
&#8226;In 2007, there were 3,443 fatal unintentional drownings in the United States, averaging ten deaths per day. An additional 496 people died, from drowning and other causes, in boating-related incidents.1, 2
&#8226;More than one in five fatal drowning victims are children 14 and younger.1 For every child who dies from drowning, another four received emergency department care for nonfatal submersion injuries.1
&#8226;Nonfatal drownings can cause brain damage that may result in long-term disabilities including memory problems, learning disabilities, and permanent loss of basic functioning (e.g., ., permanent vegetative state).