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2 shock, 4th generation prototype

Apr 22, 2008
92
3
Rotorua, NZ
Freddy's design is different then all the other pictures posted. could you guys actually look at his setup first, and think before posting.[/QUOTE]

This is how I weed out my friends! Forgive me for not being Mr. Fockn Gucci. I like riding exotic stuff that only 1 exists in the world, and have no prob sporten mid 90's crap!
 
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StyledAirtime

Monkey
May 24, 2006
245
1
NewZealand
I remember seeing you and your rig at the worlds under the KRD tent.
I own a 2stage and was pretty interested in your machine.
pretty dope for a one man band.
I think I even have some left over footage of you rockin the worlds course from when I was shooting my DVD LocalKnowledge. Ill have a sift.
 
Apr 22, 2008
92
3
Rotorua, NZ
I remember seeing you and your rig at the worlds under the KRD tent.
I own a 2stage and was pretty interested in your machine.
pretty dope for a one man band.
I think I even have some left over footage of you rockin the worlds course from when I was shooting my DVD LocalKnowledge. Ill have a sift.
I would very much appreciate that! Collecting memories was the last thing I was worried about after hanging on for dear life to my bike all that week! What a course, nothing like being shuttled with hand full of the best pros in the world listening to them winge about certain sections, I just kept shaking my head, laughing at myself, saying jevus help!
 
Apr 22, 2008
92
3
Rotorua, NZ
wonder why big companies did not continue such ideas...

I dont no.

I read an article on some other site interveiwing Tracy Moseley's mechanic Alex. (Probably the biggest thing is finding the correct spring strength which has to be soft enough for the top of the couse and firm enough to take the big jumps at the bottom).
Is this a good enough reason for the big dogs to warrant exploring 2 shck design? I got tired of carrying bucket o springs to races and because of practice just wasnt practical for me to fiddle, air shocks made life abit easier, certainly work better with 2(air units) for DH application.
 

Syhr

Chimp
Jul 22, 2008
6
0
BCD's 2x4 came out shortly thereafter, or around that time. I loved the design, but felt like it was set up wrong. the benefit of having dual axle paths really provided little benefit in this design, since it was essentially a concentric plus high pivot, so you gain very little over a high pivot design.

The two stage followed soon after, and essentially replicated the 2x4 in a mass-produced style, plus used airshocks. They refuse to dignify any "axle area" (vs. path) and refer to their design as "platform" damping.


Queried 2Stage on their similarity to the 2x4, this is what they had to say:

To quickly answer your query

1. No we weren’t aware of the BCD 2x4 design until after our design had been finalised, but it didn’t matter any way as there were crucial differences and completely different design parameters. Alex was after an axle area, we were after a pedalling platform.
2. Both Alex’s 2x4 prototypes are documented in our patents, and are sufficiently different.
3. The image you sent through has an idler that is concentric with a swingarm pivot, ours is not. His link is concentric with the bb, ours is not. Our lower shock pivot is concentric with our link pivot, his is not. His rear wheel travels randomly within a travel area, ours has a more defined sequential path. Our design locks out one shock under pedalling load, his does not.

So as you can see, no-one has done it quite like us before, and probably no-one has done it quite like Alex before. Hopefully he achieved what he set out to achieve, we certainly have achieved what we set out to.

You will see Alex Morgans 2x4 mentioned here on our website. http://www.2stagebikes.com/cs/services.asp?type=17
 

thejames

Monkey
Oct 22, 2004
133
0
austin
actually was a shop rat going to uni. they cost me $700 (including hub & brake), which was still allot of coin back then. still, they were mediocre at best. the brake was pretty decent (compared to the cantis at the time), but the fork was elastomer sprung; they age hardened in short order. it now lives as a nostalgic reminder of the bad old days on my cruiser:



am i derailing here? sorry...
Are those JAD cranks?, i wanted a set of those so bad, i had the frame but could not scrape enough for the cranks too.
 
Apr 22, 2008
92
3
Rotorua, NZ
BCD's 2x4 came out shortly thereafter, or around that time. I loved the design, but felt like it was set up wrong. the benefit of having dual axle paths really provided little benefit in this design, since it was essentially a concentric plus high pivot, so you gain very little over a high pivot design.

The two stage followed soon after, and essentially replicated the 2x4 in a mass-produced style, plus used airshocks. They refuse to dignify any "axle area" (vs. path) and refer to their design as "platform" damping.


Queried 2Stage on their similarity to the 2x4, this is what they had to say:

To quickly answer your query

1. No we weren’t aware of the BCD 2x4 design until after our design had been finalised, but it didn’t matter any way as there were crucial differences and completely different design parameters. Alex was after an axle area, we were after a pedalling platform.
2. Both Alex’s 2x4 prototypes are documented in our patents, and are sufficiently different.
3. The image you sent through has an idler that is concentric with a swingarm pivot, ours is not. His link is concentric with the bb, ours is not. Our lower shock pivot is concentric with our link pivot, his is not. His rear wheel travels randomly within a travel area, ours has a more defined sequential path. Our design locks out one shock under pedalling load, his does not.

So as you can see, no-one has done it quite like us before, and probably no-one has done it quite like Alex before. Hopefully he achieved what he set out to achieve, we certainly have achieved what we set out to.

You will see Alex Morgans 2x4 mentioned here on our website. http://www.2stagebikes.com/cs/services.asp?type=17
One thing not mentioned in this comparison is the designers of the bikes! I'm sorry but I have alot more respect for a guy who takes his own life into his own hands to develop dh rigs. I know Alex has had his share of paying dues sleeping in the back of a van, traveling & developing expences. Alex's bikes are designed with personal feedback from racing, I think he scored a bronze at vets worlds! Developing any bike can only be done by people that ride! I dont like new companies rocking up stating they got it right on the 1st try, it is disrespectful to the guys that have been making & tweeking there designs since dh started,( Mert, Foes, Intense, Santa cruz, BCD, Salgado, none of these designs have stayed the same and they would never of claimed to have gotten it right on the 1st try.
A design should stand on its own merits! None of the big co's in industry poke sticks at each other, they just show up to the track. Hell I even ran into Dave Turner in expert class practice one year, at least he rides!
To the developers that dont ride, keep paying big dollars to the unsung test dummies riding your crap because these are the true developers of our sport.
Who can remember poor myles riding those multi chain bikes made by c dale?
What a mind f@#k knowing your bike will fail at some point in the middle of a race, cant be good motivation.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,224
6,216
borcester rhymes
I hope you guys aren't calling me out on the history I wrote...I just wanted to provide some info to the best of my knowledge.

I certainly appreciate BCD's experience and development...I really like the idea of a 29er DH bike, but some of his methods scare me (quite a bit, actually). I anxiously look forward to the finished product.

There are some other people around, and on here, that develop their own bikes, which I think is fantastic, quite frankly. Just because I have design ideals in mind doesn't mean jack to the guys building and riding...
 

StyledAirtime

Monkey
May 24, 2006
245
1
NewZealand
come on.
2stage spent a few years doing R&D ,tweaking and getting things feeling mint , then Nathan Rankin took the prototype and race tested it to the highest level. then the team rode pre production protos ,for final testing then the bike was brought to the punter.
they paid there dues , and made a good bike that has stood up to a lot of riding under alot of people. including me . I own one and love it to pieces .

good on BCD for living out of Vans and riding what he builds , thats sick. and an incredible way of developing a bike. im just saying 2stage spent ages developing there bikes here in NZ. they just hit the world market with a finished product. like they should.
 
Apr 22, 2008
92
3
Rotorua, NZ
come on.
2stage spent a few years doing R&D ,tweaking and getting things feeling mint , then Nathan Rankin took the prototype and race tested it to the highest level. then the team rode pre production protos ,for final testing then the bike was brought to the punter.
they paid there dues , and made a good bike that has stood up to a lot of riding under alot of people. including me . I own one and love it to pieces .

good on BCD for living out of Vans and riding what he builds , thats sick. and an incredible way of developing a bike. im just saying 2stage spent ages developing there bikes here in NZ. they just hit the world market with a finished product. like they should.
Lighten up Francis,
You have a sick ass rare breed of bike. The bike was well finished looks great and after holding up to Nate & Glen I no the thing is engineered like a F@#ken
brick house.
I am sure I have embarased Alex enough and it is more than obvious he has sadly moved on to another cause that looks promising, cant wait to see it finished.
I myself am moving on again to a 5th 2 shock design. I feel a few of my bikes with a bit of development could stand on there own. I am looking for the holy grail & wont stop till I get it right, just a matter of time!
This thread was to just show people my work so I could get honest feedback
on my bike. At the end of the day 2 stage is heading in the right direction but realize 2 shock bikes especially are still in infancy of development.
 

Pslide

Turbo Monkey
I don't know where you fall in this picture, boss. I like your design, or at least your ability to think outside the box. I'd love to see you come up with a vertical/rearward travel (area path) dual shock bike. That could really push the spectrum and speeds, if done right.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but Freddy's latest bike IS an "area path" dual shock bike. The linkage driving the air shock provides an additional degree of freedom which will provide a somewhat rearward axle path, if I'm not mistaken.

Problem that I can see is that if you cased a big square edge, I can see the suspension extended rearward and pulling the coil over shock, rather than pushing... Could be wrong though, maybe Freddy can answer this?

Great concept, clean execution, well done!

-Aaron
 
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Apr 22, 2008
92
3
Rotorua, NZ
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but Freddy's latest bike IS an "area path" dual shock bike. The linkage driving the air shock provides an additional degree of freedom which will provide a somewhat rearward axle path, if I'm not mistaken.

Problem that I can see is that if you cased a big square edge, I can see the suspension extended rearward and pulling the coil over shock, rather than pushing... Could be wrong though, maybe Freddy can answer this?

Great concept, clean execution, well done!

-Aaron
I like your spirit!
For starters, if someone were to hand me a slideruler I could imagine 20 ways to kill you with it, versus ever working out an equation. I am a 100% concept guy that rides and am trying to aply practical knowledge from what I have observed in the DH industry. Glorified shop rat collecting crap for long time and to broke to ride anything else.
About whats going on with the bike, who cares! The concept is there, I have built 3 other very different bikes and havent formulated an opinion yet. This last bike is the closest to what I have been trying to achieve.
Ive said this before, how many ways can you make a fricken wheel go up and down! Isnt there some cumputer somewhere in the world that has that magic equation so we can just get it figured out and just worry about suspension and power! WTF man, all that f@#ken money bike companys make! I am really upset that I havent seen anything that creative in MTB for along time!
 
Apr 22, 2008
92
3
Rotorua, NZ
Well it's been a while. Still at it been riding my 5th generation 2 shock bike the last 2 years. My focus has shifted from DH to Enduro.
This latest configuration has felt the best so far, been toying with idler pulley.
Have learned quite a bit from this latest version and the one that came before. Ditching the idler, a few pivots and will simplify design on #6.
Yep front end on this one made from bamboo. I am a Horst link fan so borrowed rear end off of Specialized Enduro.
#6 will be built from scratch, most likely carbon fiber as I have great local source. Been fly on wall at RM have always followed just not big on logging in. Next update won't be 10+ years lol.

2 shocks.........this is my way.
 

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troy

Turbo Monkey
Dec 3, 2008
1,018
760
Well it's been a while. Still at it been riding my 5th generation 2 shock bike the last 2 years. My focus has shifted from DH to Enduro.
This latest configuration has felt the best so far, been toying with idler pulley.
Have learned quite a bit from this latest version and the one that came before. Ditching the idler, a few pivots and will simplify design on #6.
Yep front end on this one made from bamboo. I am a Horst link fan so borrowed rear end off of Specialized Enduro.
#6 will be built from scratch, most likely carbon fiber as I have great local source. Been fly on wall at RM have always followed just not big on logging in. Next update won't be 10+ years lol.

2 shocks.........this is my way.
Was wondering what had happened to you and your bikes!

Quite a different beast than the previous one.

Mad props for thinking outside the box and improving your design!
1683234505366.png
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,805
4,775
Champery, Switzerland
Well it's been a while. Still at it been riding my 5th generation 2 shock bike the last 2 years. My focus has shifted from DH to Enduro.
This latest configuration has felt the best so far, been toying with idler pulley.
Have learned quite a bit from this latest version and the one that came before. Ditching the idler, a few pivots and will simplify design on #6.
Yep front end on this one made from bamboo. I am a Horst link fan so borrowed rear end off of Specialized Enduro.
#6 will be built from scratch, most likely carbon fiber as I have great local source. Been fly on wall at RM have always followed just not big on logging in. Next update won't be 10+ years lol.

2 shocks.........this is my way.
Fuck yeah Freddy! Nice one!

Do you still have a bike shop?