[Heath Sherratt]

It's posted officially at www.usacycling.org Mammoth is back on the menu boys!!!!! YEEEEHAW!!!!

 

[heikkihall]

Woah wait a second? St Anne a NORBA? Thats SICK!!!! I cant wait! That schedule is wierd as hell but I cant wait for next season allready.

 

[Dylan]

Woah wait a second? St Anne a NORBA? Thats SICK!!!! I cant wait! That schedule is wierd as hell but I cant wait for next season allready.

apparently so, to bad it's Marathon XC only! damn

 

[heikkihall]

Damn I didnt notice that part.

 

[Dylan]

u can always race pro & race the world cup! Quebec is a hell of a cool town too!

 

[Full Trucker]

I'm very excited about the return of Deer Valley! That was my first national a few years ago, and that place was RAD! Can't wait to rcae it as an Expert...

 

[heikkihall]

u can always race pro & race the world cup! Quebec is a hell of a cool town too!

I was kinda planning on doing that allready. Ive been up as a spectator the past 2 years and it looks like such a fin course. And yea Quebec is an awesome city!

 

[Dylan]

Mammoth will host the US National Championships again in '05. However Durango won't be on the schedule.

what bums me out is that West Virginia will have the one & only Dual Slalom race (don't get me wrong, i love racing slalom) but WV had the BEST MntX course last year, where every other place sucked. hopefully the rest of 'em step it up this year.

 

[DHracer1067]

so is wolf laurel or sugar or whatever place they were gonna check out in nc not gonna happen. woulda been pretty sweet if it did.

 

[profro]

Mammoth will host the US National Championships again in '05. However Durango won't be on the schedule.

what bums me out is that West Virginia will have the one & only Dual Slalom race (don't get me wrong, i love racing slalom) but WV had the BEST MntX course last year, where every other place sucked. hopefully the rest of 'em step it up this year.

I thought I saw that WV had BOTH DS and MTNx. Isn't that right?

 

[bizutch]

I'll find out what happened to Sugar. NORBA still has their head in their ass. I'm sure Florida & Georgia appreciate the big "go kiss yourself" from NORBA.

 

[JJ_PA]

Snowshoe will have the mtn x next year, I talked to one of the guys down there last month about it. He said there going to tame the course down a little bit, less gaps and more table tops, there going to try to slow the speeds down. I'm glad there adding DS I've always wanted to race it. Since the national is in August does anyone know if they will put up the 2 tracks in the beginning of summer or wait for the nationals. Last years mtn x course was sick, I went down in Oct and it was already leveled.

 

[profro]

I went down in Oct and it was already leveled.

What? I thought it was "permanent".

 

[Peete]

I'll find out what happened to Sugar. NORBA still has their head in their ass. I'm sure Florida & Georgia appreciate the big "go kiss yourself" from NORBA.

And we feel the same towards them. :mumble:
My son is the only thing keeping me in the race scene. Don't get me wrong, I love to ride and race.
Snowshoe was our first national and we had a blast. But if norba wants numbers they need to go after them, not the other way around.
A national in N.C. will pull all sorts of rednecks w/ bikes out of the woodpile. ink:

Norba needs to take a good hard look at how the NBL and ABA do things.

 

[profro]

We've had this dicussion before. Its my opinion that having a national at Sugar would only please the "never been before Southern dher". It would piss off everyone else, myself included. There is NO way Sugar is in any shape to host a National. If all those boys from Florida and Georgia want to race, then show up to more of the other local races. Lift lines at a national suck. It eats into practice time. So do eternal lift runs.

 

[dhtahoe]

NORBA=Never Organized Rageing Buncha Asses.

 

[JJ_PA]

What? I thought it was "permanent".

Yea I thought so to, but the guy at snowshoe said it's no big deal to build another one. He said they have the equipment and the crew to do it. I just hope they build it in the spring so I can ride it through the summer.

 

[Peete]

We've had this dicussion before. Its my opinion that having a national at Sugar would only please the "never been before Southern dher". It would piss off everyone else, myself included. There is NO way Sugar is in any shape to host a National. If all those boys from Florida and Georgia want to race, then show up to more of the other local races. Lift lines at a national suck. It eats into practice time. So do eternal lift runs.

They(NORBA) will never know if they don't try.
As far as getting Sugar in shape, don't some of the national courses get built the week or 2 before the event?

Many riders from GA raced the Maxxis series. Many more didn't. I've seen Floridians come up for races but that's a big time and money expense to do more than a couple times a year. A national is a big thing, a regional isn't as big a thing.
South Florida racers doing the Maxxis series would be like Georgia riders going up to VA and W. VA to race their series. Ain't gonna happen. A national would be a different story. We plan on doing a family trip to Snowshoe next year, finances permitting.

 

[profro]

They(NORBA) will never know if they don't try.
As far as getting Sugar in shape, don't some of the national courses get built the week or 2 before the event?

Many riders from GA raced the Maxxis series. Many more didn't. I've seen Floridians come up for races but that's a big time and money expense to do more than a couple times a year. A national is a big thing, a regional isn't as big a thing.
South Florida racers doing the Maxxis series would be like Georgia riders going up to VA and W. VA to race their series. Ain't gonna happen. A national would be a different story. We plan on doing a family trip to Snowshoe next year, finances permitting.

Its not about the course being built. I have NO doubt Sugar could throw down a national caliber course. Its the lift plain and simple. Banner Elk has the facilities to host the National no problem, but the lift problem is insane. I don't care if the ran both lifts to the top, it would still take FOREVER and that would majorly eat into practice time.

And for all you Floridians/Goergians: If you want to go to a race and get in a lot of riding time, win some prizes, and get the most for your money.... go to a regional race. The only thing nationals have going for them are the pits and the number of pros. But do you go to be a spectator or a competitor?

 

[bizutch]

Let it be known Doug hates Sugar and whines about their lift all the time...having never seen it run on the actual electric engine rather than the slow diesel that only runs in the summer. Why do they run a diesel you ask? Because in order to use the juice to run the lift electrically, they have to buy large volume "grids" of power to turn it on and keep it running For only 2 days. They would waste tons of cash on the "Block" of power they'd have to buy to only run it for a short time. The electric company only sells it to them that way. Plus, the tourist traffic on the lift ride during the summer is just as important to them as the bikes.

Sugar, running on electric and running both lifts simultaneously, is equal to a quad lift at another mountain(granted, not a high speed detachable quad). It runs quick, bikes load and way more people get to the top. Doug, I'm sorry you don't "believe" they will meet your high standards of catered lift turbo speed...but get off the bashing of the lifts being slow when you don't know anything of how their lifts actually operate when on electric.

I ski there in the winter and the mountain is absolutely slam packed with skiers but there is virtually no lift line. Please Doug seek counseling...it's your only hope at sanity.... :evil:

 

[bizutch]

Jeff Frost's reply as to why Sugar was excluded:

Butch:
Many factors have made the scheduling of Sugar Mountain in 2005 very
challenging.
Driving most of the decision is a fear that we are stretching the Series
too far. Athletes, teams and venues are all feeling the financial crunch
of traveling to additional events. One of our priorities is to protect
the financial interests of our venues. Meaning, if by expanding the
Series less riders and teams attend then each venue may suffer.
What we are considering is that in 2006, we will include Sugar Mountain
(pending final site visit) and rotate out one of our 2005 venues. Our
ultimate goal is to have the Series consist of six (6) events - one (1)
early season (Texas, Arizona, or Florida) 2 west, 2 east, one Colorado.
We need the time in 2005 to negotiate with the existing Series venues a
rotation schedule for future years.
I appreciate your enthusiasm, and please understand the venue selection
process is getting more difficult when we try to balance all the needs
of the venues, and USA Cycling members.
Thanks for your time.
JF

NORBA National Mountain Bike Series
Park City Cycling Festival
US Mountain Bike National Championships
Jeep King of the Mountain
www.norbanationals.com
www.parkcitycyclingfest.com
www.jeepsports.com
www.bluewolfevents.com

 

[profro]

I don't hate Sugar I like the course and as I said before I think they could have an awesome course (and already do in sections). I don't snow ski, so I've never seen it in the winter but from those that I have talked to it doesn't run any faster in the winter. Are both the grey and yellow run off diesel in the summer?

 

[dhtahoe]

Jeff Frost's reply as to why Sugar was excluded:

Butch:
Many factors have made the scheduling of Sugar Mountain in 2005 very
challenging.
Driving most of the decision is a fear that we are stretching the Series
too far. Athletes, teams and venues are all feeling the financial crunch
of traveling to additional events. One of our priorities is to protect
the financial interests of our venues. Meaning, if by expanding the
Series less riders and teams attend then each venue may suffer.
What we are considering is that in 2006, we will include Sugar Mountain
(pending final site visit) and rotate out one of our 2005 venues. Our
ultimate goal is to have the Series consist of six (6) events - one (1)
early season (Texas, Arizona, or Florida) 2 west, 2 east, one Colorado.
We need the time in 2005 to negotiate with the existing Series venues a
rotation schedule for future years.
I appreciate your enthusiasm, and please understand the venue selection
process is getting more difficult when we try to balance all the needs
of the venues, and USA Cycling members.
Thanks for your time.
JF

NORBA National Mountain Bike Series
Park City Cycling Festival
US Mountain Bike National Championships
Jeep King of the Mountain
www.norbanationals.com
www.parkcitycyclingfest.com
www.jeepsports.com
www.bluewolfevents.com

But it's ok to go to Canada Lame!!! Dude soooooooooooo many teams will not be goin to NORBA events in 2005!!!

 

[heikkihall]

But it's ok to go to Canada Lame!!! Dude soooooooooooo many teams will not be goin to NORBA events in 2005!!!

Canada is hardly having a "National" next year. They are doing 1 marathon race at a venue that is allready going to be set up for a much larger race. The marathon is simply going to be a sideshow. No teams are going to being there for the Marathon event alone. Anyone that is going to be there will be there for the world cup. In reality this is how I think the races should be run anyway. Get 2 events done all in one shot. Have all the top pros there for their races and then run amature races on the side. It would get more people there to ride and to spectate. From what I hear Mt Snow used to do this back in the day and the result was awesome. World Cup level racing is incredible. If you think the pros are fast at Nationals, its a whole notch above when they show up to the World Cup Races.

 

[Damn True]

I'll find out what happened to Sugar. NORBA still has their head in their ass. I'm sure Florida & Georgia appreciate the big "go kiss yourself" from NORBA.

They probably aren't going to Georgia for the same reason they aren't going back to Minnesota.

Actually, it's probably money.

 

[stiksandstones]

yeah, and they STILL HAVE NO PRIZE MONEY FOR THE PROS!!!!!
THIS WILL BE THE 3rd YEAR IN A ROW

Was talking to a motocross legend yesterday and he said something that was frightening...
"These norba guys got the racket going man, lets say tommorrow they get a sponsor for the series for a million bucks (not likely), they dont even have to pay the pros any prize money, because these dumb@sses have been racing for 2 years without getting paid, why pay them now?"

I could so see that happening, just paying themselves more and ripping off the pros.

Yeah yeah yeah, I know no one here cares about the pros, but I do.

 

[OneBrickShy]

Woh, wait a tic, are you telling me that there is no Pro-payout at any of the Norba Nationals??? I just recently switched from MX to Downhill, and intending on racing the expert class at the Norba Nationals. If there is no pay out though, there is not way i can afford it.

 

[profro]

Expert class never got any payout.

 

[buildyourown]

Woh, wait a tic, are you telling me that there is no Pro-payout at any of the Norba Nationals??? I just recently switched from MX to Downhill, and intending on racing the expert class at the Norba Nationals. If there is no pay out though, there is not way i can afford it.

Even if you were racing pro and there was a payout I wouldn't count on it to cover expenses.
That's like trying to bankroll a vacation to vegas on your winnings.

 

[Peete]

And for all you Floridians/Goergians: If you want to go to a race and get in a lot of riding time, win some prizes, and get the most for your money.... go to a regional race. The only thing nationals have going for them are the pits and the number of pros. But do you go to be a spectator or a competitor?

We do all of the regional races. Compared to a nat they are wham-bam- thank you ma'am. Done in one or 2 days. A nat is more like the circus coming to town.
There was more time to ride/ hang out/watch other races.
A national for most southeasterners is a once a year thing, if that.

I know the lifts at Sugar are faster than what they run them. Opening day 2 years ago they were moving pretty fast compared to every other time I've been there.

 

[heikkihall]

Even if you were racing pro and there was a payout I wouldn't count on it to cover expenses.
That's like trying to bankroll a vacation to vegas on your winnings.

Actually In a way some people could consider it motivation. I know of a few ski racers on the pro circuit who used to spend all their money getting to the races and if they didnt make the podium they actually couldnt afford their rent for the monh or eat until the next race. If thats not motivation go go fast then I dont know what is. But ski racing is wierd. The top "amatures" actually make ALOT more than the best pros and are actually faster racers.
I guess it just has to do with legally staying amature so they can compete in the olympics, but it still doesent make sense.

 

[OneBrickShy]

I know that even if there was a payout it would not cover my expenses, but every little bit helps. I intend to race as many races as possible, but i live in Missouri and it is going to be very expensive.

 

[bizutch]

OK...I replied to the first message that Jeff Frost sent me. I did some angry bashing of NORBA about how they had left the South off the radar for 10 years because "elitist pro teams" didn't want to travel here. I told him we didn't need all the pretty little pros to show to make up a great National and that they wouldn't affect attendance as much as he thinks. I edited out a response to a cheap shot I took at him...

Remember, this guy is a "for profit" promoter, not an actual NORBA rep....so when speaking to him, it's important to understand he speaks money and marketing, not membership services. I was very satisfied with his answers and felt his reasoning was justifiable so I sent him an apology note for the bashing I did to him. "Discuss amongst yuhselfs"

Butch;
I apologize for not more clearly communicating. Communicating
complicated issues via e mail is never a good thing - it is always
better to speak in person.

We have not excluded Sugar Mountain, NC, but including them in 2005, was
ultimately not going to work from a variety of perspectives, not just
the professional athletes, referred to you as elitists. Again, this was
certainly not an easy decision but one that was carefully considered and
discussed.

We are only delaying the decision and are working to include Sugar
Mountain in 2006. This should be an indication that we are certainly
aware of the importance of the SORBA ridership and believe that the
Southeast is an important region to better service.

I cannot speak to the history of any perceived neglect, as we are in our
second year of managing the Series. Since our management of the Series
began we have expanded the series from six events to eight and added the
USA Cycling Mountain Bike National Championships - all in hopes of
better serving USA Cycling and its mountain bikers.

In response to some of your more passionate comments, I can only say a
few things. We are currently in Texas and Arizona doing XC/STXC only
Nationals - there is a place for this within a Series. Florida has some
excellent XC venues. I worked the inaugural Tour De Georgia and am well
aware of the numbers of cyclists in the region - the two road events you
mention are very clear examples of how to promote races!!! The
organizers do a great job. I believe both of those organizers are
"for-profit" companies as well.

Unfortunately, I cannot speak to your larger relationship with NORBA, as
our role is a small part of what USA Cycling does. Our hope is that a
decision, based upon many factors, to delay Sugar Mountain's inclusion
in the National Series does not jeopardize your relationship with USA
Cycling. I would hope that the organization provides to you as a
promoter and as member much more value than that. .........

Thank you for your time and if you would like to speak via phone please
give me a call anytime at 602-999-8110.
JF
NORBA National Mountain Bike Series
Park City Cycling Festival
US Mountain Bike National Championships
Jeep King of the Mountain
Sea Otter Classic/Cougar Mountain Classic
www.norbanationals.com
www.parkcitycyclingfest.com
www.jeepsports.com
www.bluewolfevents.com

 

[sirbikealot]

I was kinda planning on doing that allready. Ive been up as a spectator the past 2 years and it looks like such a fin course. And yea Quebec is an awesome city!

the MSA course is absolutely amazing and more technical than you can possibly imagine, when i started rainging again this year during our race runs, i kid you not most of us started crying, its a horror movie trying to clean a run there when its wet, but man do you learn to ride

 

[dhtahoe]

yeah, and they STILL HAVE NO PRIZE MONEY FOR THE PROS!!!!!
THIS WILL BE THE 3rd YEAR IN A ROW

Was talking to a motocross legend yesterday and he said something that was frightening...
"These norba guys got the racket going man, lets say tommorrow they get a sponsor for the series for a million bucks (not likely), they dont even have to pay the pros any prize money, because these dumb@sses have been racing for 2 years without getting paid, why pay them now?"

I could so see that happening, just paying themselves more and ripping off the pros.

Yeah yeah yeah, I know no one here cares about the pros, but I do.

Well said. I does suck to race for all this time, survive cancer, fight to get back into shape to do what I love, and the circus has left town. I feel like Lance if they cancelled the Tour De France.