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2006 Foes FXR

Jul 17, 2003
832
0
Salt Lake City
We just got a postcard with an image of the all-new '06 Foes FXR. The bike features a 2:1 leverage ratio for lower spring rates (read: lighter springs), a full-length seat tube, and generally totally re-designed numbers across the board. I don't have a lot of specific information yet, such as geometry, weight, etc, but I thought getting a picture up wouldn't hurt any feelings.

 
Jul 17, 2003
832
0
Salt Lake City
WheelieMan said:
Interesting, Foes goes from one end of the spectrum with the new Mono and ultra low leverage ratio to this. But I guess it makes sense, for 4X, suspension performance is really not that important. Most setups are extremely stiff anyway.
I'm not sure that I'm following your train of thought here. Manufacturers have been, almost across the board, moving to lower leverages on all of their bikes. Leverage by itself isn't an indicator of suspension performance, other than lower is better since you can run softer spring rates which increase the life and performance of your shock. They increase performance by allowing the valving to move in smaller increments; a shock that is running say a 700# spring is going to have to have a LOT of rebound damping available to control the return of a spring that powerful, but still has to be compatible with a 350# spring on a different bike. Purpose-built (or at least purpose-valved) shocks like the Curnutt, or a custom-tuned Push or Avy or whatever, is going to have a range of valving specific to only minor variances in spring rate, which means more usable adjustment. Plus, longer stroke shocks have more oil volume in them (than the same shock design with a shorter stroke) as a rule of thumb, which helps to keep oil/shock temperatures down and reduce cavitation. This isn't a 4X specific bike either, it's Foes' all-mountain offering that, for the last couple of years, was available with burlier tubing as a 4X option. Fill me in on what I missed in your original post if it seem like I'm totally missing the mark.
 

WheelieMan

Monkey
Feb 6, 2003
937
0
kol-uh-RAD-oh
James | Go-Ride said:
I'm not sure that I'm following your train of thought here. Manufacturers have been, almost across the board, moving to lower leverages on all of their bikes. Leverage by itself isn't an indicator of suspension performance, other than lower is better since you can run softer spring rates which increase the life and performance of your shock. They increase performance by allowing the valving to move in smaller increments; a shock that is running say a 700# spring is going to have to have a LOT of rebound damping available to control the return of a spring that powerful, but still has to be compatible with a 350# spring on a different bike. Purpose-built (or at least purpose-valved) shocks like the Curnutt, or a custom-tuned Push or Avy or whatever, is going to have a range of valving specific to only minor variances in spring rate, which means more usable adjustment. Plus, longer stroke shocks have more oil volume in them (than the same shock design with a shorter stroke) as a rule of thumb, which helps to keep oil/shock temperatures down and reduce cavitation. This isn't a 4X specific bike either, it's Foes' all-mountain offering that, for the last couple of years, was available with burlier tubing as a 4X option. Fill me in on what I missed in your original post if it seem like I'm totally missing the mark.
Yeah I agree, lower leverage ratios are always a good thing. For some reason the compact design had me thinking "4X"
 

DH Diva

Wonderwoman
Jun 12, 2002
1,808
1
Looks like I'm going to have to sell my '05! That thing looks super (and I really really really like my '05)!!
 

julian_dh

Monkey
Jan 10, 2005
815
0
damn that thing is amazing, i cant wait to see the foes dh with the 5 inch stroke 2:1 ratio the i2i is supposed to be around 15inches :eek:
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,640
4
SF, CA
Hope that shock is running REALLY light valving. Not really much need for a leverage ratio that low... my Gemini DH is about 2.4:1 and it's a huge pain. I need to find obscure spring rates and have the shock custom valved. Modern shocks are pretty reliable at 3:1. Staying in that range saves you weight over a longer shock, means stock shocks will work for you in a pinch, and makes it easy to find springs to get your sag right.

Just my two cents. Geometry and stiffness are more important than suspension anyway...
 

oly

skin cooker for the hive
Dec 6, 2001
5,121
1
Witness relocation housing
Sweet, too bad its a single pivot....... :nope:







KIDDING.... :D It looks real nice. A good friend of mine has the older one and rides the crap out of it and he just loves it.. The new one looks like a nice progression, while still keeping the Foes traditional look.

Hope you win..... :)
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,447
2,123
In my pants
ohio said:
Hope that shock is running REALLY light valving. Not really much need for a leverage ratio that low... my Gemini DH is about 2.4:1 and it's a huge pain. I need to find obscure spring rates and have the shock custom valved. Modern shocks are pretty reliable at 3:1. Staying in that range saves you weight over a longer shock, means stock shocks will work for you in a pinch, and makes it easy to find springs to get your sag right.

Just my two cents. Geometry and stiffness are more important than suspension anyway...
Bitter? :D Come on, you're bike is going to rule once you get the right spring. I'm completely blown away by how well those things ride when setup properly. Considering the design, I think the ONLY reason this is so is due to the stupid low leverage.

Besides, my fork works great and it only operates on a 1:1 ratio. :dancing:

Course, riding a foes means you're pretty much willingly diving into sh!t creek head first with regards to finding an off the shelf shock these days anyway........
 

Greyhound

Trail Rat
Jul 8, 2002
5,060
356
Alamance County, NC
I really don't care for the new design.......the older one looked much better. This looks all cramped-up or something.....can't quite put my finger on what it is exactly, but something seems off. Their other designs had way sexier lines than this one does. But, whatever......sexy lines don't make a bike ride better..........



....do they?
 

Rockland

Turbo Monkey
Apr 24, 2003
1,768
57
Left hand path
I want to like it. It seems to address some of the issues I've had with my '03 FXR. Mine has been a pain.

Quick observation: @ 2:1 the bike prob won't have 5 3/4" travel anymore.
 

Dogboy

Turbo Monkey
Apr 12, 2004
3,130
251
Chapel Hill, NC
CBJ said:
Isn't that desing like stepping a little back in time to a suspension design like the Santa Cruz Heckler?
Not really. It was a single pivot before and it's a single pivot now.
I like it. The straight seat tube really is nice and the front triangle looks good too. I would imagine it gets at least 5" of travel just by the exposed shock shaft.
 

CBJ

Turbo Monkey
Mar 19, 2002
10,994
1,294
Copenhagen, Denmark
Just because they are both single pivots they can still ride very different and they do look very diffrent in they way the shock is place. Unfortunately my suspension knowledge is not good enough to know if there will give difference in the ride and that is why I asked the question.
 

WheelieMan

Monkey
Feb 6, 2003
937
0
kol-uh-RAD-oh
CBJ said:
Isn't that desing like stepping a little back in time to a suspension design like the Santa Cruz Heckler?
I don't think so, this frame is linkage activated so at least the rate might be more desireable than the Heckler. I wish the picture was better so it would be easier to determine the shock rate. edit: maybe i'm wrong, the shock could be attached to the swingarm.

But I really don't think suspension design is incredibly important for 4X. As ohio said, geometry, stiffness, and I would add weight, are most important to consider for a 4X bike. And i'm sure that Foes has each of those things covered.
 

leprechaun

Turbo Monkey
Apr 17, 2004
1,009
0
SLC,Ut
OK some real facts (so far)
4X bike(shock) pictured= 4" travel.Rod end to tune 1 degree or so angles for fine tuning on 4X courses.

the bike will also be available with a slightly longer shock without the rod end to give the bike 5" of travel for trail riding.

More info coming soon.

Krispy
 

DHRracer

Monkey
Sep 29, 2004
373
0
Has Brent changed his tune of late?Has he had problems with HydroFormed?His he going back to Seamless Tubes?The way it should be.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,640
4
SF, CA
kidwoo said:
Bitter? :D Come on, you're bike is going to rule once you get the right spring. I'm completely blown away by how well those things ride when setup properly. Considering the design, I think the ONLY reason this is so is due to the stupid low leverage.

Besides, my fork works great and it only operates on a 1:1 ratio. :dancing:

Course, riding a foes means you're pretty much willingly diving into sh!t creek head first with regards to finding an off the shelf shock these days anyway........
I've got the right spring. I've always had the right spring. Or at least, if I don't have the right spring, I'm SOL because to get anything lighter than 250# I'll have to have something custom wound. What I have also had, unfortunately, is 3 consecutive shocks from manitou that were faulty or blew on the first run or were overvalved . The 4th should be back anyday, and I've got my fingers crossed.
 

leprechaun

Turbo Monkey
Apr 17, 2004
1,009
0
SLC,Ut
DHRracer said:
Has Brent changed his tune of late?Has he had problems with HydroFormed?His he going back to Seamless Tubes?The way it should be.

The top tube is actually a folded sheet so there is only a weld on the underside.This makes it more affordable to fab (1 stamping,1 weld instead of 2 of each)
 

Summit

Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
369
0
here 'n there
Interesting...sure is pretty. I dig the uninterrupted seattube. But I like my 5.75" on my '03, and the excellent standover...not too stoked on the straight top tube I gotta say.

I've been wanting the better tire clearance of the 04/05's...but might have to wait around for the 06 now. Gotta check the #'s when they come out.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,447
2,123
In my pants
ohio said:
I've got the right spring. I've always had the right spring. Or at least, if I don't have the right spring, I'm SOL because to get anything lighter than 250# I'll have to have something custom wound. What I have also had, unfortunately, is 3 consecutive shocks from manitou that were faulty or blew on the first run or were overvalved . The 4th should be back anyday, and I've got my fingers crossed.
Freakin manipoo. :mumble:

I forgot, you had a 5th on there without the spring......my bad.

My buddy who has one of these bikes (the one I've gotten some time on) had his shock completely blown when he opened the box from cannondale.

Once he got his replacement damper and screwed around with the settings enough, his bike was awesome. Don't get me wrong, it was a total bandaid setup with the air chamber a good ways in and a decent amount of spv pressure, lots of ending stoke compression damping etc.. but I really liked the way it rode.

If you're going to keep this thing (I know you said you weren't) I have an extra vanilla DH that might be the goods. It has too short of a hose to fit my turner very well and I haven't decided if I want to replace the hose or not. I've got 3 shocks for the bike, so I'm not in any great need for it really.
 
Jul 17, 2003
832
0
Salt Lake City
Summit said:
Interesting...sure is pretty. I dig the uninterrupted seattube. But I like my 5.75" on my '03, and the excellent standover...not too stoked on the straight top tube I gotta say.

I've been wanting the better tire clearance of the 04/05's...but might have to wait around for the 06 now. Gotta check the #'s when they come out.
The frame pictured is the 4X model, with a short seattube so it doesn't really need a bent top tube to increase standover. The medium and larges have an ASX-style sloping top tube with a large formed gusset at the top of the seat tube / top tube joint.
 

Vrock

Linkage Design Blog
Aug 13, 2005
263
35
Spain
James, do you have any pictures of the medium and large frames??? that would be cool.
 

Spitfired

Monkey
Jun 18, 2004
489
0
Rochester, NY
It looks to me that the machined bulkheads for the swingarm at the main pivot hang over the edge of the BB shell quite a bit. Arn't there some clearance issues there? Does it not do this on the drive side (where you would undoubtedly run into a bashgaurd or rings or somthing.
 
Jul 17, 2003
832
0
Salt Lake City
Spitfired said:
It looks to me that the machined bulkheads for the swingarm at the main pivot hang over the edge of the BB shell quite a bit. Arn't there some clearance issues there? Does it not do this on the drive side (where you would undoubtedly run into a bashgaurd or rings or somthing.
No. There were some clearance issues with the orignal '03 FXR frames (XTR didn't work), but that has all be resolved.