Surely a bike bucking doesn't have anything to do with the frame design? Is it not shock setup? Isn't the whole point of rebound damping to stop a bike from bucking?
2009 EVIL Revolt: T-minus 10... 9... 8...
- Thread starter S.K.C.
- Start date
"Ellsworth" and "spout crap" in the same sentence, coincidence?
Note also that despite his 'big figure' status, he is ALSO talking hearsay and provided no personal experience or details as well...
This is a very deep hole in which you have come to reside, reach for the lifevest and not the keyboard.
Does Rob know you're making him into the new 'Mr Big' of the UK bike scene? ROTFLMAO
Muttely: The answer's simple - even though i haven't swung a leg over an Evil.
Here's why: Frame design is a science, so is shock/damper design. Guys who do it (at the worldwide level) aren't just doing stuff for ****s and giggles. It's complicated, so they take their time and take into account some many variables that never even occur to 99.99% of the riders of their bikes. With big computers and stuff.
Your post is basically religion: nothing to back it up, but you need us/RM to take it seriously.
The gospel according to someone who wasn't there and may not actually know WTF they're on about (unlike the people who design bike frames, as mentioned above).
The terrain in the UK is not unique. The rider mindset might be.
Cracks? Meh who cares? Every brand breaks. They're welded by humans (unless Evil aren't - are they welded by robots from Space, or Daves super secret ex milspec killerbots?).
Really Dave - ARE they welded by ex military Killer Robots? Don't track my IP and eliminate my parents by accident while i'm at work today, if i've somehow stumbled onto the Evil brand corporate secret.
KTHXBAI
KTHXBAI
Right, sorry, In saying rob was a big player i was just stating, hes a reputable guy, hes not going to say something with no basis behind it.
I heard of these things occuring, in that thread i had a discussion with several people about the fact that surely, it must be shock setup, but i came here, and asked the most qualified people, and i was absolutely shut down, with no explanation, just purely "it doesnt happen". Now i can see why the CIA fails so badly, i guess nothing in americas would CAN HAPPEN.
Well Mutley, that's because the religion here on RM is that of Dave Weagle!!! The sun shines out of his butt over here on RideMonkey and all these internet riders are on their knees worshiping him, or have their noses so far up his ar$e they can't see any wrongdoing. The man, sorry, GOD can do NO WRONG!!!!
So when you go round enquiring, sorry, blaspheming about any possible error in anything DW does then you will get slated, shut down, lashed, hung, drawn and quartered!
You thought Islam had extremism - take a look at the DW extremists on RM!!!
Isnt it wonderful when some people have nothing substantial to say to they descend to talking smack.
I think the word in vogue for this is douchebag, n'est ce pas?
I think the word in vogue for this is douchebag, n'est ce pas?
Well, this wonderfully hypocritical post proves my point entirely.
Your reading comprehension sucks, as do your debate skills.Well, this wonderfully hypocritical post proves my point entirely.
Swirlie with your fail?
Jeebus folks. All of this craziness over some people not setting up a shock correctly? Seriously?
Has any of it been considered that perhaps the rider's fork was not set-up properly? That perhaps they are coming off a bike that has some other traits that they like/dislike and are trying to compare it to? Or maybe that the rider is just now going flat out faster and hitting sections with that much speed that they are scaring the crap out of themselves?
Often, riders who are not well versed in suspension set-up (and even sometimes those who are) will "feel" things that might not be physically possible because it is the only way that their brain can interpret it at the time. When you are going thru a wood section, riding above your head, AND trying to notice small changes in suspension you brain often will push those details to the back while it manages the more important task at hand: not crashing the bike!
But, perhaps the best quote to use here comes this week from Rep Barney Frank "Trying to have a conversation with you would be like arguing with a dining room table." Sometimes, it is impossible to have a conversation with people if they have a set agenda or mindset and where the sweet baby Jeebus himself couldn't veer them off said path.
-ska todd
Has any of it been considered that perhaps the rider's fork was not set-up properly? That perhaps they are coming off a bike that has some other traits that they like/dislike and are trying to compare it to? Or maybe that the rider is just now going flat out faster and hitting sections with that much speed that they are scaring the crap out of themselves?
Often, riders who are not well versed in suspension set-up (and even sometimes those who are) will "feel" things that might not be physically possible because it is the only way that their brain can interpret it at the time. When you are going thru a wood section, riding above your head, AND trying to notice small changes in suspension you brain often will push those details to the back while it manages the more important task at hand: not crashing the bike!
But, perhaps the best quote to use here comes this week from Rep Barney Frank "Trying to have a conversation with you would be like arguing with a dining room table." Sometimes, it is impossible to have a conversation with people if they have a set agenda or mindset and where the sweet baby Jeebus himself couldn't veer them off said path.
-ska todd
Well seeing as I wasn't actually debating anything I believe your understanding of the English language is somewhat more limited.
For all you DW worshipers with your fingers in your ears singing "La La La" may I point out this: http://www.southerndownhill.com/forum/index.php/topic,204987.msg1704534.html#msg1704534
I'm not debating anything either way, merely displaying a few reports from other sources. But it is quite telling when the creators of something refuse to accept or even acknowledge there might just be a problem, deny any error on their part and are not even willing to discover the facts and seem completely unconcerned. They simply, arrogantly say the problems are not occuring. Very unprofessional IMO.
Did you read anything posted in here? your own posts? You really want to continue to pollute this thread with whiney asinine nonsense?
Claim your moral victory and step off. When someone who actually owns or has ridden one and can attest to these claims posts in the thread, a modicum of credibility will commence.
As it happens, yes, I've read every word of this thread from a neutral standpoint as an interested party about the bike.
Did it ever occur to you than not every rider of an Evil Revolt spends his time on the internet and RM? No, I though not.
Yet you're on the internet, looking for credibility??
As it happens, yes, I've read every word of this thread from a neutral standpoint as an interested party about the bike.
Did it ever occur to you than not every rider of an Evil Revolt spends his time on the internet and RM? No, I though not.
Yet you're on the internet, looking for credibility??
You're clearly a dining room table; Im headed off to the the LR with my TV dinner; enjoy that obstinacy!
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As one of the 3 or 4 riders on his board who has ridden a Revolt more than just about anyone other than the factory team, has ridden it with 3 different shocks from stock to full custom(vivid, fox, elka), and knows a thing or 50 about suspension setup and how to actually ride a bike I've gotta say this topic is a pile of nonsense.
Watching someone else ride in front of you and drawing conclusions about how the frame rides? seriously, did i just read that?
here's the short list of things that can 'buck' a rider regardless of frame design:
weight too far forward
fork spring rate too soft
fork damping to lite
riding stiff legged at the wrong time
too much preload
wrong spring rate
too little compression damping
you don't know what all those cool little knobs on your shock do, how they interact with each other, and how they will effect your bikes handling. and yes, adjusting the fork may effect your rear suspension so if you don't understand this you might find yourself fussing with your rear shock trying to fix a problem that doesn't exit there.
going too fast
not balancing suspension spring rate and damping front and rear
not having a sufficient vocabulary or understanding of suspension characteristics or handling traits, and/or an inability to verbally articulate what you feel into something useful, accurate, or even physically possible.
Matti Lehikoinen got bucked on his honda riding of a little rock and broke his back. blame the honda?
Kovarick got bucked horribly on the final jump at big bear on an m-1. blame the m-1?
Sam Hill at Andorra this year, same story. Blame the Demo?
I watched Vouilloz ride the longest, sketchiest rear wheel smash to nose wheelie in the history of DH racing, and it wasn't because of his Sunn.
I first read this thread an figured it didn;t deserve a response, it's just too eff'ing stupid. but 1 or 2 people keep trying to keep it alive with some sort of weird pretzel logic that makes sense to them.
DH bikes are very much like computers; only as good as the operator
Watching someone else ride in front of you and drawing conclusions about how the frame rides? seriously, did i just read that?
here's the short list of things that can 'buck' a rider regardless of frame design:
weight too far forward
fork spring rate too soft
fork damping to lite
riding stiff legged at the wrong time
too much preload
wrong spring rate
too little compression damping
you don't know what all those cool little knobs on your shock do, how they interact with each other, and how they will effect your bikes handling. and yes, adjusting the fork may effect your rear suspension so if you don't understand this you might find yourself fussing with your rear shock trying to fix a problem that doesn't exit there.
going too fast
not balancing suspension spring rate and damping front and rear
not having a sufficient vocabulary or understanding of suspension characteristics or handling traits, and/or an inability to verbally articulate what you feel into something useful, accurate, or even physically possible.
Matti Lehikoinen got bucked on his honda riding of a little rock and broke his back. blame the honda?
Kovarick got bucked horribly on the final jump at big bear on an m-1. blame the m-1?
Sam Hill at Andorra this year, same story. Blame the Demo?
I watched Vouilloz ride the longest, sketchiest rear wheel smash to nose wheelie in the history of DH racing, and it wasn't because of his Sunn.
I first read this thread an figured it didn;t deserve a response, it's just too eff'ing stupid. but 1 or 2 people keep trying to keep it alive with some sort of weird pretzel logic that makes sense to them.
DH bikes are very much like computers; only as good as the operator
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Ive bumped heads with you before, and don't fully submit, but you're usually right.
I just couldn't avoid it, I'm a magnet for it...
Excellent squash though -- I'm curious per the response now that you've hit every point thats been eClaimed.
As a relative newbie to serious DH (although fairly athletic), and nowhere near a suspension guru, I have had no issues with bucking on my Revolt. The first few runs I took, the suspension was nowhere near fine tuned, too much preload, dampening adjustments set at basic "suggested" setting recommended in this thread (thanks by the way), and I felt nothing more than a bit of a stiff rear end. Like every other comment left by an actual owner of one of these bikes, I have to say that I am extremely pleased with the bike itself and the company it came from. I love my Revolt and it keeps getting better everytime I ride it.
Ok, thats fine, now we know that countless eye witnesses to issues with the revolt are all liars and dont know what they are talking about, we also know DW is god, and than his disciples of closed minded pride will not accept any possible issues.
Yeah ill roll with that.
Yeah ill roll with that.
Hey smart guy - get one of em to post, stop running your gossip-meter. You really dont recognize how inane and foolish you're 'argument' is?
maybe, but most of the disciples i know live in a world of actual reason so its hard for them to accept fantasy as anything more than what it is.
I own a Revolt. I am not a DW disciple. I also own a Canfield Jedi, and Ellsworth, and Specialized bikes. I'm pretty open minded. What I am reading from the countless posts are unsubstantiated "rumors" and requests to hear some factual information to back them up. Nobody is calling anyone a liar, or claiming that the bike or DW are beyond having possible faults, after all current bike design is all about comprimises, but until someone with first hand information or experience comes forward, it's all speculation and gosip. That's not helpful to anyone, regardless of their affiliations, brand loyalty, or religious background as has been implied.
Wow! I've been "test riding" the Revolt for a good part of the summer and I can honestly say that "bucking" isn't one of it's characteristics (I like running a relatively fast rebound, too). This seems to be the consensus of people that have actually ridden the bike vs. people who have read a post by someone who knows someone who has ridden the bike
. E-rumors must really suck for bike companies.
. E-rumors must really suck for bike companies.Agreed!Wow! I've been "test riding" the Revolt for a good part of the summer and I can honestly say that "bucking" isn't one of it's characteristics (I like running a relatively fast rebound, too). This seems to be the consensus of people that have actually ridden the bike vs. people who have read a post by someone who knows someone who has ridden the bike
Isn't the bucking thing getting a bit boring meanwhile?
More pictures!!
More pictures!!
bucking, haha.
buck you all
this bucks for you!
Futt Buckers
Sounds to me like your all passing the buck
Rosebud.
I thought I understood simple physics, but I don't quite get how the leverage ratio can increase the rebound damping at the end of the travel.
The force of rebound applied to the damper must be related to the spring force at max compression and I suppose the inertia of the unsprung weight of the rear suspension.
Since the leverage ratio is very low at max compression due to the 'dual progressive rate', the inertia of the unsprung weight will have less of an effect at the end of the stroke than it does at the beginning of the stroke where the leverage ratio is higher.
So if you were to judge the effectiveness of the rebound damping throughout the stroke of the shoke, it seems it would be under the highest force (and thus fastest rebound shaft speed) at the end of the stroke under max compression. Therefore, if there is any shortcoming in the shock in terms of its capability to provide rebound damping at high shaft speeds, it would happen when returning from max compression.
I realize that also means the rebound damping force will be greatest when returning from max compression, but this is true of any shock/spring and inherent to the function of the damper - not a function of the suspension design.
Is that not right? (I have been wrong before! Plenty!)
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i think you are over thinking something very simple
the "ramp up" at the end of the compression stroke is due to a low leverage ratio.
the same low leverage that makes it harder to compress at the end also makes it harder for the shock to rebound on the return stroke, due to the lower leverage ratio at this point in the travel.
riding rate/progressive rate linkages are used in all form of motorsports from F1 to motocross... it is not something unique to bikes, and is not a source of the mysterious bucking.
poor shock setup and a few internet riders stirring the pot are to blame.
i give an open invitation for anyone to take mine out for a run... juding from the reaction of the dozen or so people who have over the past few months you will probably not want to give it back.
I would like to introduce this:
and this:
Discuss? Enjoy? ~Meh!
and this:
Discuss? Enjoy? ~Meh!
watz????
Lower leverage results in higher shock shaft velocity in relation to/for a given wheel speed. Higher shaft velocities = higher damping force.
Thus for a given wheel/axle velocity (direction does not matter) there will be the greatest damping force where the leverage ratio is the lowest (at or near end of travel).
Thus for a given wheel/axle velocity (direction does not matter) there will be the greatest damping force where the leverage ratio is the lowest (at or near end of travel).