Tubby b!tch.Almost, 6'7", 215
Yeah, after this weekend, YOU of all people do not need a lower BB.
2009 EVIL Revolt: T-minus 10... 9... 8...
- Thread starter S.K.C.
- Start date
Yeah, after this weekend, YOU of all people do not need a lower BB.
i do sir
I wasn't talking to you. You (probably) aren't as awkward as Big Gay Dan is on a bike.
How dare you, I am invincible. I challenge you to finish riding down knapps after a crash like that.
the V10's arent US made?
I was just gonna ask if he needed a special livery service license to ride it.
Why do some people get so hung up on the fact a frame is made in the east?
what's your point? we live in a global economy.
do apply this filter to the parts you put on your bike? the clothes you ride it in? the car you drive to get to the mountain in?
how about the computer you just typed that on?
sorry buddy, but to me it matters more if a company supports the sport, supports riders, racers and promotes cycling.
so far EVIL is doing all of it the right way.
some of the best quality come out of the east... not the USA. why should they pay more to have a bike built at lower quality.
if you still think "made in the USA" means "made better" you need to wake up and realize that the world does not revolve around you/America... in fact, to the rest of the world made in the USA usually just means not as good and more money.
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There is value in a product that is creating/keeping jobs in our country. It's sad to me that we're slowly getting rid of our skilled work force by always going for the cheapest prices.
I know I would much rather have an evil, or specialized, or any other brand that was made in the states instead of overseas, but that's not reality. I know most companies can't even afford to have US made parts, even if they wanted to, but man, I think that SUCKS!
agreed... but it is what it is until a lot of things change, and change GLOBALY
i just get annoyed when people hold the bike industry to this double standard. the bike industry is not going to fix the problem, and a lot has to change in other areas to even make it possible for them to do so.
the high cost of doing business in the USA is not just because you have to pay your workers more... that is an issue but taxes (in multiple forms) , energy costs, availability of raw materials (and cost of getting them to factory) etc all add up. some states are better for business than others and they compete with all kinds of incentives to attract businesses but most of the time it is not enough.
Running a global brand is hard out of the USA plain and simple, especially a start up.
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dave, don't forget that there still are a good number of high quality frame builders in the US, but they are most often found on the boutique and/or non dh ends of the spectrum.
Whilst most S.C. bikes are made in the far east the V-10 is still USA (sapa) built.
I just was wondering how companies that outsource their production to Asia justify frame prices that are in the same range as handmade in USA/Canada/Germany/UK/South Africa....?
What is the benefit for the customer if they go to Asia? And if they tell you now it is not cheaper to produce the frames over there as it is here I wonder why they are doing it??????
And FWIW: I apply those filters to stuff I put on the bike too. No way I would pay the same price for a Syncros stem as I pay for a Thomson.
A welder is a welder, this ridiculous to think someone in Taiwan cannot weld a frame as god as a American. In-fact, some of the bikes I've seen come out have beautiful welds, and the evils are no exception.
There are so many double standards its not even funny from some people. 95% of all the clothing most of you wear are made in large chinese or india factories. But you (not you in particular, silly americans) arent really that concerned because its just clothes. Most of the parts on your "american built" car are stamped, cast or forged in foreign countries. the average american auto worker submits 6 suggestions a year about improving their job or production work, the average japanese submits some 40 suggestions a year. that tells you something about pride, responsibility and dedication to their product. The american worker and unions are as much to blame for the problems we face in this country as are the CEO's looking at the bottomline.
India has more honors students than america has students.
We're a lazy, stupid bunch and were only getting worse.
I am not questioning their welding skills. I know they are as good as it gets. But ask yourself two questions about why the bikes are made there.
If it is really cheaper to produce over there, why are the frames the same price as frames made in the US?
If it is not cheaper, then why produce there in the first place? There must be a reason, don't you think so?
Other products made overseas have advantages, like being cheaper, are made with skills/materials etc. that we don't have here. So there is a reason to buy them. It is not about being patriotic, I just really want to know where the price tags come from.
Haha yeah, and of those, Intense is the only one that still can't weld a frame straight. Heard of two medium M6's here that had variations in frame geometry (not dropout related), not to mention every previous M frame that had front-to-rear alignment issues.
I'll take the outsourced Taiwanese production anyday, thanks. And I'm pretty sure the V10 is made in USA, I had an 09 one kicking around for a little while, but honestly didn't care because the welds were neat and the frame was straight. Beyond that, who cares?
I cant say what Evils business plan is, but my guess is it could have to with having 3 world cup riders to support and whatever other riders they support. riding/racing is expensive and more profit would give them the ability to support/do more.
But thats a question best left answered by Evil themselves.
But thats a question best left answered by Evil themselves.
@ the suggestion that buying far east goods is unpatriotic; China underwrites quite a large portion of US debt. Good for the goose, good for the gander perhaps. My personal thoughts on the bike- when can I scrounge up the money for it! I want one!
It sure as hell won't cost over 3k US.
damping...
Uh, Hellloooo?
Say Hi to Mr Profit. He sits between the "cost to manufacture and ship" and the "retail price".
It's a hard concept to grasp... but companies like to make stuff as cheaply as possible, and sell at the highest price the market will stomach.
I know - it's shocking. They call it "commerce" and "capitalism". Those dirty, stinking pigs.
But don't worry - my friend Rasputin and I have a plan... it will sort these pigs out once and for all...
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If I was in the US, there is no way I would buy anything but a US or Canadian made frame. You blokes get them so cheap that the OS stuff has no price advantage.
You may as well support the local market and one day those greedy capitalist pigs who manufacture OS and sell at US made prices will die of Chlamydia.
You may as well support the local market and one day those greedy capitalist pigs who manufacture OS and sell at US made prices will die of Chlamydia.
why would a company go trough all the trouble of producing frames in house when they can have it made in the east and have a product that is just as good and costs the same as a made in US frame. If you would outsource the production in the US it would probably be a lot more expensive.
Supporting local market is very nice until you meet with some weird practices. One example, even not MTB related, but oursourcing related.
Porsche Cayenne, model that is bringing Porsche most of their huge profit mainly from US market, a car that is almost identical to VW Touareg, mostly manufactured out of Germany, finalized in Germany (that's why Germans proudly declare "made in germany" for it) is in Slovakia for 56,000 Eur.
However, US dealer declares MSRP 44,000 USD = 33,000 Eur !!! How ? Why ?
I'm not moaning, I'm not fan of Porsche at all despite their high tech. level. But tell me where the bussiness logic is in here?
Porsche Cayenne, model that is bringing Porsche most of their huge profit mainly from US market, a car that is almost identical to VW Touareg, mostly manufactured out of Germany, finalized in Germany (that's why Germans proudly declare "made in germany" for it) is in Slovakia for 56,000 Eur.
However, US dealer declares MSRP 44,000 USD = 33,000 Eur !!! How ? Why ?
I'm not moaning, I'm not fan of Porsche at all despite their high tech. level. But tell me where the bussiness logic is in here?
Try this:
Who gives a f### about Slovakia? You guys have a population under 5.5 million. .
Whats the pop. of the US? Oh yeah 300 million. That's why they sell the stupid pig mobile for 33,000 Euros, becuase if they can steal (even a small) chunk of that market from the sort of idiots that usually buy fake offroad 4 wheelers then they are 'in the money'.
Hey, if you want to spend your money with companies that do business like that.....go ahead! But never whine about the bad economy or if you lose your job because your employer wants to maximize his profit. Hey, it is called capitalism.Uh, Hellloooo?
Say Hi to Mr Profit. He sits between the "cost to manufacture and ship" and the "retail price".
It's a hard concept to grasp... but companies like to make stuff as cheaply as possible, and sell at the highest price the market will stomach.
Not every russian sounding name has something to do with communism.
Gawd threre's alot of anger in here!!!!!
Makes me wana bring back "The Argument Thread"
Makes me wana bring back "The Argument Thread"
i like your style: angry
The Revolt is going to cost considerably more than the TR450 because there is a lot more going on with it in terms of technology and manufacturing costs. The seat tunnel is a cast aluminum piece that is pocketed and ribbed on the inside and I've seen at least two different versions of the casting. The link pieces look to be very well machined from hefty billet chunks. I don't see that kind of detail on the Transition. The BB on the Revolt is an extruded and machined piece of aluminum not a threaded tube with the ISCG tabs welded on. There are a lot of nice details on the Revolt. I'm sure the TR450 will ride well but to compare the price you need to compare what you are getting. Even when you compare the Revolt to other bikes in the same price/use class it compares favorably. I think you get more attention to detail with the Evil for the same price as an M6/Supreme DH/Makulu, etc.
In the end you get more bike for the same price by going overseas for production. I would have liked to see them stay domestic with it but I don't think we would have seen the same combination of quality, price, and features that we are getting.
The TR450/Revolt comparison is like an STI/Carrera4 comparison. Performance is relatively close and the difference in track times will go to the driver but the cost of the Porsche is reflected in the refinement and details that will get lost on a lot of people. I wouldn't kick either of them out of bed for eating crackers though.
In the end you get more bike for the same price by going overseas for production. I would have liked to see them stay domestic with it but I don't think we would have seen the same combination of quality, price, and features that we are getting.
The TR450/Revolt comparison is like an STI/Carrera4 comparison. Performance is relatively close and the difference in track times will go to the driver but the cost of the Porsche is reflected in the refinement and details that will get lost on a lot of people. I wouldn't kick either of them out of bed for eating crackers though.
I just looked at more of the pictures of the Transition and realized that the seat tunnel pieces have more going on than I originally thought. I also really appreciate their cable routing, especially the rear brake hose.
ride angry!
Maybe it was mentioned in one of the pages I skipped, but people aren't talking about development cost$?
Yes it only cost X$ to manufacture the product overseas but there is still the cost of development to recoup.
Plus with the Evil Revolt I am sure DW gets a couple nickels thrown his way for every frame made. Not knocking that at all but it needs to be factored in to the cost of every frame. Even if its a set fee as opposed to a fee per unit there is still a cost per unit.
The owner (one of them at least) is an aquaintance of the owner of Rotec. After Rotec's debacle a few years ago trying to get frames made in the US, I am sure that made them look long and hard about getting them done overseas.
But I guess the same could be true for the first generation of IH Sundays and MKIII's that WERE made overseas?
Yes it only cost X$ to manufacture the product overseas but there is still the cost of development to recoup.
Plus with the Evil Revolt I am sure DW gets a couple nickels thrown his way for every frame made. Not knocking that at all but it needs to be factored in to the cost of every frame. Even if its a set fee as opposed to a fee per unit there is still a cost per unit.
The owner (one of them at least) is an aquaintance of the owner of Rotec. After Rotec's debacle a few years ago trying to get frames made in the US, I am sure that made them look long and hard about getting them done overseas.
But I guess the same could be true for the first generation of IH Sundays and MKIII's that WERE made overseas?
...and BTW the bottom bracket, ISCG and main pivot section are one piece on the TR450 as well. Check out the pic...
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I'd sure love to get my hands on a White Revolt load it up with a White 2010 Boxxer WC, Saint Cranks & brakes, Hope hubs laced to 823's and ride the SH** out of it. I bet she rides awesome! Probly a good weight as well. 
First year 2005 Sunday Factory frames were built in the USA. All the other versions and the MKIII were built overseas.
Damn, Sam! You guys really did step it up with this one. Jerad got to pedal it around at NF on Saturday and was telling me about it but I didn't see you guys out there. Good thing my foot tastes ok, I think I stuck it in my mouth this time.