heh heh, shaft velocity....<childish giggling>
2009 EVIL Revolt: T-minus 10... 9... 8...
- Thread starter S.K.C.
- Start date
I know.
Aside from drivetrain, possibly brakes, and unsprung mass there shouldn't be any component of force at the rear axle, in the downward direction, no? Nothing is driving the axle down during rebound. See what I'm getting at?
2 bikes with different leverage ratios with the same damper and spring, are going to be damped with regard to rebound the same during bottom out. I know I'm simplifying things alot, but this is a pretty whacky thread and kind of silly, and I usually stay out of these internetz hype marketing threads, but oh well...
Now the leverage ratio is going to affect rear wheel velocity,and the ability for it to stay in contact with the ground, but that isn't "leverage ratio affecting rebound damping" as I think some posters in here are trying to correlate.
Last edited:
precisely.... the revolt has heavier compression and rebound damping at the end of it's travel
hence the reason DW and many others have stated that the leverage ratio changes will not cause "bucking", and that this phenomenon can only be attributed to things other than the frame/suspension design... i.e. poorly set up shock or fork, or riders error
Hi guys!
here is my new bike:
I've been riding it for few days, works great!! except the fork.... starts to be good but I still have to ride to get it more smooth!
Well, I wanted to ask you one question:
I've a pb with my bike, there are some craking sounds when I'm riding, mainly when I'm pedaling....
I've check everything, the BB, the wheels etc... but I'm sure it comes from the frame itself...
Probably nothing really serious but I have to found out why!!
I checked all the tightening, and I guess it comes from the main pivot, when I tighten it a bit more, there is no more sounds...
So, I would like to tighten it as it's written on it, 300 lb.... but I don't how much is it in Nm??? someone can help me please? (is that really strong tightening????)
If any of you have had the same pb please let me know! it can help!
Cheers!! and sorry for all the mistakes... I'm french and I still have to improve my english, I konw that!!!
edit:
I tried to change the frame settings... the front flichip can be removed easily for the rear ones... that's not so easy! and I didn't arrive to remove them! any advice?
here is my new bike:
I've been riding it for few days, works great!! except the fork.... starts to be good but I still have to ride to get it more smooth!
Well, I wanted to ask you one question:
I've a pb with my bike, there are some craking sounds when I'm riding, mainly when I'm pedaling....
I've check everything, the BB, the wheels etc... but I'm sure it comes from the frame itself...
Probably nothing really serious but I have to found out why!!
I checked all the tightening, and I guess it comes from the main pivot, when I tighten it a bit more, there is no more sounds...
So, I would like to tighten it as it's written on it, 300 lb.... but I don't how much is it in Nm??? someone can help me please? (is that really strong tightening????)
If any of you have had the same pb please let me know! it can help!
Cheers!! and sorry for all the mistakes... I'm french and I still have to improve my english, I konw that!!!
edit:
I tried to change the frame settings... the front flichip can be removed easily for the rear ones... that's not so easy! and I didn't arrive to remove them! any advice?
Last edited:
i had the same problem so i left my flip chips in the slack position. the 13.7"(?) BB is a little too low for my 170mm cranks so id like to flip them.
DW gave a few pointers, but the rear flip chips on mine are not coming out. i even tried to yell at them.
i have creeking coming from my frame somewhere too, but i think once i take the swingarm off and clean around it, it should be fine.
i located one cause of my creaking last week tho. the Hope reducer headset's crown race got some rocks under it causing it to creek.
their split headset race seemed like a good idea to remove it, but it just causes crap to get under it easier
Allo Nicoco! for the "creaking" it is probably one of three things:
1. unthread spring and put thin bead of grease between the steel of the spring and the aluminum of the retainer & the preload ring
2. remove the shock bolts and put thin layer of grease on them, especially if you have aluminum upper shock pin.
3. loosen the suspension bolts and then tighten all evenly (like you would a stem or fork clamps)
Also, we fudged up and the printing on the main pivot direction is backwards.
-ska todd
1. unthread spring and put thin bead of grease between the steel of the spring and the aluminum of the retainer & the preload ring
2. remove the shock bolts and put thin layer of grease on them, especially if you have aluminum upper shock pin.
3. loosen the suspension bolts and then tighten all evenly (like you would a stem or fork clamps)
Also, we fudged up and the printing on the main pivot direction is backwards.
-ska todd
Last edited:
ok guys, thanks!!
I think I'll take the swingarm off, clean it and tighten it properly! The bad point is that all the dust goes directly on bearings and shock... I'll try to put something to avoid this!
and for the rear flipchip... what can we do? The BB is too low for me too although I have 165mm cranks!
edit:
OK ska todd, thanks for the tips, I'll try!!
I think I'll take the swingarm off, clean it and tighten it properly! The bad point is that all the dust goes directly on bearings and shock... I'll try to put something to avoid this!
and for the rear flipchip... what can we do? The BB is too low for me too although I have 165mm cranks!
edit:
OK ska todd, thanks for the tips, I'll try!!
Last edited:
Can you pull the chip out by threading something in from the outside?
As far as noise...I always have gone through my new FS bikes and put something between each and every mating/press fit surface..especially any dis-similar metals. Pull all the bearings and pivot shafts and coat with retaining compound, apply some retaining compound to bolt shafts that sit inside of a slightly larger OD (think traditional style shock bolts), crown race, crank spindle interface, just about any thing that is not reguarly removed.
Threaded assemblies (pedals, bb, bolts) get either anti-sieze (not grease) or loctite on the threads, shaft, and contact surfaces of bolt heads.
I dont think those flip-chips are a tight enough presss fit to prevent micro-movement between them and the pocket they sit in. Get them where you want and put a thin film of loctite on the contact surfaces. The plastic film will act as an isoloator between the metal to prevent galling etc, and will eliminate noise.
My bikes are quiet, bolts dont come loose and dont have hogged out sloppy interfaces or play anywhere. Definately worth the time to do this durring the initial build IMO.
As far as noise...I always have gone through my new FS bikes and put something between each and every mating/press fit surface..especially any dis-similar metals. Pull all the bearings and pivot shafts and coat with retaining compound, apply some retaining compound to bolt shafts that sit inside of a slightly larger OD (think traditional style shock bolts), crown race, crank spindle interface, just about any thing that is not reguarly removed.
Threaded assemblies (pedals, bb, bolts) get either anti-sieze (not grease) or loctite on the threads, shaft, and contact surfaces of bolt heads.
I dont think those flip-chips are a tight enough presss fit to prevent micro-movement between them and the pocket they sit in. Get them where you want and put a thin film of loctite on the contact surfaces. The plastic film will act as an isoloator between the metal to prevent galling etc, and will eliminate noise.
My bikes are quiet, bolts dont come loose and dont have hogged out sloppy interfaces or play anywhere. Definately worth the time to do this durring the initial build IMO.
the rear flip chips are different from the top/upper ones. its a typical shock bolt that goes through them with no threads in the flip chip itself.
I have this image of you yelling these instructions slowly as if to a deaf old man in a disco....
Oh my God but it's a $550 rear shock shouldn't Fox put grease on the spring at the factory for you.
oh, wait, sorry, thought this was the BoXXer thread . . .
I'm not sure you've thought this through and read what Inclag said...
The revolt does not have heavier rebound damping...it's not possible for a frame to have heavier rebound damping. This is dependent on the shock.
It is true that leverage ratio changes will not cause "bucking" - if the shock is doing its job properly. But also consider that the way the double progressive curve works: it ramps up considerably at the end. I'm not sure what the final leverage ratio is, but the way it's been described it sounds like the ramping up will naturally generate a higher spring force at the end of its stroke in big compressions than other bikes. This is a sensible design to minimize bottom out - BUT in doing so, the higher spring force generated means the shock will have a harder job to do to dissipate that higher force in rebound.
You said that "the same low leverage that makes it harder to compress at the end also makes it harder for the shock to rebound on the return stroke, due to the lower leverage ratio at this point in the travel."
Also not true, the lower leverage ratio will make it easier for the shock to rebound. This, however allows for a higher shaft speed and higher damping force - but this is inherent to the damper, not the suspension, as I mentioned before.
Sorry, don't mean to be pedantic about this stuff, just like to get things straight. I'm not always right either!
Also, I'm not slagging the bike, just talking about physics!
Doesn't work like that mate, the think about it this way. The shock has greater control over the wheel at bottomout (because the leverage ratio is so low), so both the bottomout and rebound will happen slower relative from the wheel's perspective.
At the top of the travel however, the shock has very little control over the wheel, so both the force to compress and extend the shock from the wheel will be very little.
Due to the fact that no matter where the leverage ratio heads, the ratio of compressive force to rebound damping force remains the same for a given constant input at the rear wheel, therefore it makes not a shred of difference what the frame leverage is doing to the shock from the wheels perspective, only the valving in the shock as far as rebound is concerned.
I think I've worded this right, it works in my head, but might be a bit difficult to get your head around.
Last edited:
I agree with most of what you've said. But haven't you contradicted yourself here? You're saying the low leverage ratio will cause rebound to happen slower, then only the shock valving makes a different to rebound.
I agree with the latter statement. I think overall we are probably saying the same things using different wording... No worries!
Yeah I did contradict myself a bit, I really mean what you said, given that at the end of the stroke the compressive force and rebound damping force will both be higher, making the ratio the same.
Basically meaning, that there will be no bucking and no "extra" rebound damping either, it's all to do with the shock. Is that what you were saying as well?
WATZ!?!?
Really guys, read my post. I tried explaining it as simply as possible (which may not be very well
). Anyway, dilzy, you seem to get it although I have a hard time with wrapping my head around your explanation. Your conclusion that
is right when we are talking about shock rebound damping.
Pslide you are on the right track, but
is just not true.
The only reason I interjected in this thread was because of some misnomers such as davetrump said,
. I just wanted to clarify because I think some people are confusing what is happening at the rear wheel with what is happening at the shock. Mmmkay?
Now you're listening to engineers? Sheesh, whats with all the facts and reason. Its un-interweb-like.
Work sucks, alas the interweb to the rescue. I am a yutz, please carry on.
Last edited:
changed the vinyl around after the black came off on the downtube.
Not a Revolt question, but a Faction one.
CRC lists Factions on their website but they cannot ship them outside of the EU. Seeing as I am out in California, that does me no good. I googled for an online shop that sells them and I can only find UK sellers.
Can anyone point me in the right direction on where I could get at least a price from a place that will actually ship the frame to me?
CRC lists Factions on their website but they cannot ship them outside of the EU. Seeing as I am out in California, that does me no good. I googled for an online shop that sells them and I can only find UK sellers.
Can anyone point me in the right direction on where I could get at least a price from a place that will actually ship the frame to me?
Yep, now we are singing out of the same hymn book!
Yeah, technically you are right. I was just putting it in simple language for the guy who said it would be "harder". What I was referring to was the force (when rebounding) to overcome the inertia from the unsprung weight will be less with the Revolt suspension because of the low leverage ratio, which will essentially make it "easier" to accelerate the rear suspension in rebound then a bike with a not-so-low leverage ratio. But the differences in these inertial effects must be tiny, so I shouldn't have mentioned it...the rebound valving is what does the job.Inclag said:
Inclag, I appreciate that you come on here and correct mis-truths.
And I'll shut up now so people can get back to talking about their Revolts in plain language!
Look I'm not trying to stir any pot, just trying to point out that what some people are saying here is wrong (I'm an engineer as well). Like I said in my first post, there are some other things going on, but for simplicities sake the only force acting on the damper during rebound is from the spring, which is merely an energy storage device. F = -kx <--- Hooke's Law. As it recoils, the spring releases energy which the shock dampens. Shocks do care about shaft velocity when it comes to compression, so linkage rates and vertical wheel velocity will play a roll in increased/decreased damping, but this isn't the case with rebound damping as there are no additional external forces which will vary the shaft velocity. Clearly leverage ratio will impact how the rear wheel moves back into position and a lower leverage ratio will require lighter valving (ahem IH Sunday), but it is wrong to believe that leverage ratio will somehow vary the damping characteristics of the shock itself! What I'm trying to correct are the people that believe that leverage ratio is having some sort of magical affect on the shock itself in rebound.
In no way do I believe that a low leverage is going to cause bucking and I'm not criticizing the bike either. Just want to correct some misconceptions and elaborate on what is going on since what DW wrote is not very clear which is apparent from your interpretation of it.
I bet DW wished that he wrote one of his suspension dynamic dissertations to explain what is going on since most kids on this forum probably aren't willing to read half of what myself or some others have wrote, and will look at our post as some sort of negative about this bike. The reality is that we saw something that didn't make a whole lot a sense and then got geeky talking about it.
I actually really like this bike from a suspension/linkage POV and it really looks like DW focused on finely tuning the suspension as much as possible. I think it is very well thought out and would love to inspect one further and check out the other details aside from the linkage design.
Anyway, I'm glad people are stoked about their bikes!
Last edited:
Yeah it's just wheel rate vs shock rate. DW was talking about wheel rate, but as soon as someone mentions damping, people naturally think about shocks.
im going to be buying a revolt within a few months and have a few questions if anybody can help 
i prefer the look of the frame without the extra tubing,are there any disadvantages to this?
im 6' 2",185 to 190lbs. will a large be the right frame size?
how long does the warranty last?
whats the out of the box head angle and bb height?
thx in advance
i prefer the look of the frame without the extra tubing,are there any disadvantages to this?
im 6' 2",185 to 190lbs. will a large be the right frame size?
how long does the warranty last?
whats the out of the box head angle and bb height?
thx in advance
Out of the box the rear end is set in the low position and the headtube is in the steep position. If you flip the headtube you drop the bb just a little bit more and if you flip the chips to raise the bb you also steepen the HA. I want to say mine sits at 63* and 13.7 or so and I haven't changed any of the settings.
I'm sure Todd will give you all the exact numbers.
FWIW I'm 5'8" and I'm riding a medium. I think you could go either way depending on how tight you like your cockpit.
I'm sure Todd will give you all the exact numbers.
FWIW I'm 5'8" and I'm riding a medium. I think you could go either way depending on how tight you like your cockpit.
Last edited:
im 6'2" on a large and sometimes my knee will hit the trigger shifter. Just gotta remember to get back off the bike when pedaling, this isnt a bmx bike
im 6'3" also and feel the large is perfect..if anything its kinda long
a large it is then
any idea on the on my other questions?
any idea on the on my other questions?
i would have thought the warranty would be longer than 2 years considering some frames come with lifetime.
some places still have the frames without the extra tubing in the uk so i think ill try and get one of those
some places still have the frames without the extra tubing in the uk so i think ill try and get one of those
buy them then
you're a tool...
Last edited:
Ohhhhhh, watch out now, don't want to go hurting someone's e-feelings.At least slam him with the proper spelling. You're not your.
Last edited:
There were < 60 made w/o the extra tube. Most of them were shipped in the US or Canada.
Yes, dead on balls perfect fit.
2 yrs from date of purchase.
Flipchips slack, headtube steep // 13.8", 64°
It's a DH bike. Aluminum frames have a finite lifespan. Nothing lasts forever, especially if you ride it hard.
-ska todd
well... after 10 weeks waiting for it... my black revolt arrived last wednesday...
here are some pics of it...
hope you like it...
left view
middle
right view
"design"
Since I`m a dentist, you can find a molar, a mirror and a dental probe
It weights like 17.6 kg (39.1 pounds) i`ll try to use a better scale anyway... but it make sense tom me, because i used the same parts i had in my sunday... and it was like 17.25 kg... and the revolt it`s like 300 grs heavier than my 08 factory
Next upgrades.
2010 Boxxer wc, don,t know what else can it need
here are some pics of it...
hope you like it...
left view
middle
right view
"design"
Since I`m a dentist, you can find a molar, a mirror and a dental probe
It weights like 17.6 kg (39.1 pounds) i`ll try to use a better scale anyway... but it make sense tom me, because i used the same parts i had in my sunday... and it was like 17.25 kg... and the revolt it`s like 300 grs heavier than my 08 factory
Next upgrades.
2010 Boxxer wc, don,t know what else can it need