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Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by big-ted, Jul 28, 2009.
I get 66.4 in photoshop. Not nice, maybe not accurate either
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geo chart for the glory (a L length tt on the M size and 65.5 ha ) :
Is there a possibility of a frame only option?
yes, there usually is for all of the higher end bikes that Giant sells.
I can assure you this bike will be nothing like the Session in the durability, or dentability of the tubing. You will be pleaseantly suprised I have a feeling...Giant is not one of the companies to put out a "disposable" bike. That is just not how the taiwanese operate and why they have been inherintly heavy, better to be over built andnot have many warranties than to be giving frames away all year long.
if i remember correctly out in cali i measured my 09 glory with dorado on it and it was at like 64ish.
I measured my -08 (with a Boxxer at max height) at 64.0. Giant says 65.5 for the -08 as well...
The max height should be a hint why it is 64. Probably they measure it at lower height + maybe lower profile tires and headset. I think its possible to get such a differance.
I think it is roughly 1° for every 3cm of fork height.
Pretty close. More along the lines of 2.5(4)cm or 1".
So I took one of these for some laps yesterday. Pretty impressed with the suspension platform but definitely way too steep for my tastes. 65.5? Damn Giant, it isn't 2001 anymore...
[crosses Glory off list for next year]
The new Transition is calling your name... It's a single pivot though according to the articles I've read.
37lbs for a stock Glory 0. The Glory 1 should be about 38lbs and roughly $4700 IIRC.
The frame is 3lbs lighter than the '09.
The new glory also has a zero stack lower cup on the E2(1.5-1.125) headtube essentially lowering the bars and allowing for more adjustment along the stanchions.
Shock is the same stroke as the '09's, so it's got a lower leverage ratio.
That's what I've gotten from Giant so far.
Oh yeah, 65.5* for the headtube.
Whoops forgot to mention that the rear axle is a Giant creation lighter than a Maxle, but if you feel like it you can throw a Maxle in as the two are compatible.
What did your laps consist of for terrain, length, and rider experience level? Some more details would be great so the content could be evaluated more objectively.
I was told the new frame has a 2.8 stroke for the shock not a 3.0 like the 09'
and with 8 inches of travel instead of 8.8
Stroke is 2,75", 8" travel. Ratio is just a little bit lower, I guess.
This looks like it could be a really good bike. Maestro linkage in a lighter package should be really good to ride. Also why do people hate the 65.5 HA? The v10 has a 67 HA, I know that under sag it changes quite a bit but surely under sag the HA for the glory cant be too bad?
Simply people seem to like the new slack HA's and I'm not suprised. Stability is a nice thing.
So your saying that a properly setup glory isnt stable?
Man read with understanding. Im not saying it's not stable but that some people will want more stability. A bike with a steeper ha will not feel skechy in most cases but rather you will feel you are going very fast on slower speeds than on a slacker bike. A slacker bike simply gives you the scary feeling of "wow I'm going very fast" a bit later.
Its dependent on the terrain and rider. There comes a point where slacker and lower angles become almost detrimental IMO. I've seen a fair ammount of M6's in the the hands of people who would have a ridden better on something slightly taller and steeper. For the majority of people buying bikes who aren't hauling ass at world cups (myself included), the slack angle craze seems to be driven more by too much freecaster and mouse clicking than a necessity based on personal performance. There are plenty of legit local racers who are exempt from that generalization, but thats my opinion based on casual observation over time.
65.5 static doesn't jump out to me as extremely steep, especially with 30-35% sag and fork height adjusted. As someone pointed out the V10 is 67* with only .6" more sag, and as someone currently riding that bike, its never stability has never been anything but, well, stable.
Using the sag argument is pointless as every bike sags around 30-35% and most of the new bikes are 65 or less. Also it's not a WC angle craze as we are still far from 61-62 head angles some riders like to rock on the steeper/faster courses (Fabien, Gee for example). It's all rider preferance and some people with a specyfic riding style simply like it slack. Imho around 64deg ha is perfect.
BTW. People not so long ago were saing 65ha was very slack and not necessary and now it's so last year
Each to their own... head angle isn't everything and bike setup/geo is a personal preference. But I know one thing for sure, if I see a DH bike with a head angle over 65, that's too steep for me.
I've ridden the V10 and I personally think it's steep - heck my 6" trail bike is close to 65 and that's how I like it. Even my Sunday feelt steep until I started using offset cups.
I've been looking forward to getting into something with a shorter wheelbase and a headtube around 65ish so I'm really excited about this bike.
My Foes WB is around 47.25" and my Session is at 47.125" and they are a little bit like trying to drift a schoolbus. For us PNW folk with lots of trees and tight corners the 45.5ish WB will be a good change.
I almost went ahead and preordered one yesterdaybut decided to hold off and just wait until the girlfriend is ready to get one(should be december).
Having being on both sides of the fence, I believe slacker is better. I've got a 63.5* Sunday at the moment (-1 cups) and after spending a few weeks in the swiss alps, I was very thankful for it. After a couple runs on the Champery WC track, I would have happily gone slacker. Obviously that's not what every run is like, but the 63.5 hasn't had any detrimental effects on my tighter local tracks either (I've done back to back timed runs to check).. so why not?
I'm not sure how many people using the V10 as an example actually ride one, but I rode an 09 frame for a few months and thought it was too steep. Yes you can still win on one; you can win on anything. But as speeds get higher, and tracks get steeper and more challenging, the slacker angles start becoming more and more beneficial.
Are you saying peat and minnaar would win more if the v10 was slacker? I'm just curious, do they have slacker then production bikes? I feel like if they wanted SC to make slacker v10's, slacker v10's would happen. But I also have no idea if their bikes are production, or similar to production bikes. Just curious.
Both Peaty and Minnaar have custom frames, which I'm sure are slacker than stock.
William you can never be shure and there is always personal preferance. I remember someone stateing that Minnaars V10 was stock but I'm not the eager beaver who belives every marketing blurb sc throws at me
I think the suspension and general design of this bike looks great but none of that really matters IMO as the geometry is the opposite of the way the rest of the market rightly is going.
The problem is you haven't got options starting with a 65+ head angle. If you want to slacken it out the only option you've got is to run an external lower headset race and drop the stanchions through the crowns. The problem is then you'll have a 2" higher bar height and a 14.5"+ BB. It'd be fine if the frame had an adjustable link or dropout and you could run it +/- 1 degree from 64 but as it is, an 8" 'DH' bike with a non adjustable 65+ head angle and 14.5" BB... Someone's on the pipe at Giant
last season peaty had a custom frame but it was only custom because it was half an inch longer on the top tube minnar and rennie both run stock frames.
this year minnar and peaty have custom frames but only thing customs is longer shock they are running 9.5x3.0 shocks intstead of 8.75x2.75 other than that frames are fully stock from what i heard when they got their new frames.
everyone who has a v10 push the stantions on the fork as far down as they can go and run a raised crown this slackes out the bike and feels great..
They should just drop the dumb tapered headset and use a full 1.5 inch for a start at-least that gives the option to run an offset headset.
This maybe an aftermarket option to slackening your head angle by 2 degrees. It appears that they currently make a kit for just the Socom and Sunday but I would imagine they will expand their line.
I saw it on page 38 of the June issue of Dirt
I don't even see why it needs to be a discussion? Everybody wants slacker. V10 owners will be able to get it i bet when the 3" stroke version - that they said wasn't needed - comes out. Then maybe that old horse and the "but but v10 67deg blah blah blah" can die off.
64 isn't slack, it's not World Cup, it's not unrideable. 65.5 isn't the end of the world either, but it is a clear failure to address what the market (you know, they folks buying your bikes) want.
Or does everyone who buys a Glory only do it because it is the cheap privateer rig? ie don't know what difference HA can have?
Was on my list, not anymore.
can't use this with the glory, as the headset is not compatible. The glory is 1.5 lower cup only, not top and bottom.
Did you even read my post?
If you're familiar with Whistler, my lap was Upper Whistler DH -> Rock City -> Canadian Open DH course. I'm a podium level expert/mid-to-back-of-pack-pro rider here in BC. I imagine I'd be a solid mid-pack in pro at most US regional races.
Obviously, the geometry of the Glory works for some people. Hell, it doesn't seem to hold Rando back, and I know plenty of guys that absolutely rip on the current bike, but for my tastes, it just isn't workable.
For what it's worth the guy on the Giant stand claimed that they wanted to make the bike accessible to a wider market. Personally, I'd have thought that was more applicable to the Faith, as opposed to the Glory, which is touted as an out and out race bike.
I stress again that I was super impressed with the suspension though, dispite the fixed, and seemingly excessive, lsc damping of the Vivid 4.1 shock. It tracked and carried speed remarkably well over rough, off-camber roots.
I didn't like the tires...
Yes I think he did.
There is no way to do this properly with the Glory headset set-up.
BTW, wtf is up with K9 ind. They claim to be super high tech/data aquisition type guys, but they have had a frame (very home made and cobbled together looking IMO) 'almost ready' for over two years.
They announced their headset cups a full year ago (anyone actually seen a production pair??) yet got beat to market by several months and over $100...
Does anyone actually take them seriously? Are they as much of a joke in the UK as they appear here?
ps $185 for headset cups..