[b.utters]

I weight around 87kg and i think sag atm is around 30%. I probably don't understand enough about suspension and how to set it up to know how to get what I want out of my fork but I'll try and explain what I want:

-Currently the level of sag seems to make it hard to really pop off jumps and hop over rocks etc on tracks. I thought that having stiffer low speed compression would make it harder to blow through the initial travel when jumping and hopping.

-The track I race on most is pretty steep (for Australia anyway) and having the fork stand up would be better in some of the more gnarley sections.

Not too keen to throw a steel spring in due to the extra weight.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Performance goes over weight!
I think you should check out a stiffer spring, even if it's a steel one. The fork won't dive that much anymore. If the results are those you are looking for, you can always upgrade to a ti spring.
The sag won't change with a tuned shimstack, but the ride will be a bit harsher.

 

[Ithnu]

Does anyone have a picture/details on the stock shim stack? I had mine tuned last year by Santiago in CO but he lost the info on what he changed in there. I want to compare stock to what I have now so I have 2 data points for future tweaking.

 

[Lelandjt]

I had mine tuned last year by Santiago in CO but he lost the info on what he changed in there. I want to compare stock to what I have now so I have 2 data points for future tweaking.

He usually swaps the shims for communion wafers and changes your oil to man goo. You can expect a more progressive damping curve and a newfound appreciation for Rush after his tune. I'm headed to his house this afternoon for the "SG3 treatment".

 

[Ithnu]

He usually swaps the shims for communion wafers and changes your oil to man goo. You can expect a more progressive damping curve and a newfound appreciation for Rush after his tune. I'm headed to his house this afternoon for the "SG3 treatment".

I asked him to make it more linear actually. I like the work he did, the fork felt much better afterwards. He just lost the details on what he did. I want to know what was changed for future reference.

 

[Pslide]

He usually swaps the shims for communion wafers and changes your oil to man goo. You can expect a more progressive damping curve and a newfound appreciation for Rush after his tune. I'm headed to his house this afternoon for the "SG3 treatment".

Awesome on progressive rock hits?

 

[JohnnyC]

I weight around 87kg and i think sag atm is around 30%. I probably don't understand enough about suspension and how to set it up to know how to get what I want out of my fork but I'll try and explain what I want:

-Currently the level of sag seems to make it hard to really pop off jumps and hop over rocks etc on tracks. I thought that having stiffer low speed compression would make it harder to blow through the initial travel when jumping and hopping.

-The track I race on most is pretty steep (for Australia anyway) and having the fork stand up would be better in some of the more gnarley sections.

Not too keen to throw a steel spring in due to the extra weight.

You should have a lot more than 30% sag if the stock spring is in there, I would expect someone around the 70kg mark to be getting 30% sag with the stock spring.

A properly set up fork will have infinitely more benefit than 100g (even a couple of kilograms) or so of weight.

 

[b.utters]

Yea I measured it properly today and its actually alot closer to 50% sag

This might give you an idea of why I want the forks to hold up a bit more:

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Looks like there's no way not to get a stiffer spring...

 

[Capricorn]

monarch: had a similar situation. buggering around with the shims wont help as mch as a stiffer spring, which is what i went with (one step up in stiffness from stock). The difference is very appreciabled, and appreciated

how far off max compression are you? i'm asking cos I'm wondering if you also have a cartridge issue that I had (fork was diving very badly).

 

[b.utters]

I was running 1 click off max in that pic.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Capricorn:
I don't think, that it's the shim stack's fault. He mentioned earlier, that he has about 50% sag already. Like you mentioned already, he needs definitely a stiffer spring.
He can always play with the shims afterwards.

 

[jackalope]

I weigh right at 87 kg myself, and I measured mine at a little over 30% sag, altho I dunno what the proper position is to measure sag. If I just sit on it with most of my weight on the saddle, its probably at 20% or so. But I lean as far forward as I can (i.e. the "attack" position), its definitely more than 30%. FWIW, I have 3 clicks of preload (from open), 4 clicks of compression (from open), and the progression knob all the way open.

May need a stiffer spring, altho it seemed to work fine for my first race.

 

[Capricorn]

I was running 1 click off max in that pic.

do you find the compression changes are appreciable or sort of all the same no matter if fully closed or open?

 

[jackalope]

I know you're not asking me, but I have found the compression adjustment to have a noticeable and measurable effect.

Btw, anyone have a spring chart for the 888? Not listed in the owners manual or anywhere on their website (at least I couldn't find it).

 

[sethimus]

check the first post of this thread?

 

[jackalope]

^^

Touché, although I'm not sure how accurate the stock spring info is based on a later comment (by the "sales rep") which seems to indicate the stock spring if OK up to 200 lbs.

 

[IH8Rice]

which seems to indicate the stock spring if OK up to 200 lbs.

im 220lbs and am perfectly happy with my stock Ti spring

 

[marshalolson]

other factors that contribute well beyond simply rider weight to sag of a fork:

1. head angle
2. reach of bike and width of bars vs. torso length and arm length of rider
3. rear susp sag
4. length of chainstay vs. length of bb to front axle
5. how you are measuring sag (seated vs. track stand)

 

[b.utters]

do you find the compression changes are appreciable or sort of all the same no matter if fully closed or open?

It doesn't change noticeably with each click but you can definitely feel the difference between fully open and fully closed.

Thinking about it though; because I don't have the correct spring rate any compression damping will be null and void because I blow through the travel too easy anyway.


New plan:

- Get firm spring
- Shim low speed compression heavily
- Possibly add lower oil weight to reduce low speed compression speed range.

If I understand how this stuff works this should produce a very stiff fork over over smooth ground but as soon as I hit anything rough the fork should open up into it's full range of travel.

Can anyone advise if I am correct in my assumptions?

 

[IH8Rice]

just found out that Marz will thankfully be at the US Open next week and i can get that impossible to find shim there. gonna have them give my fork some lovin too

 

[sethimus]

im 220lbs and am perfectly happy with my stock Ti spring

i'm 200lbs and not happy with the stock ti spring, but i'm perfectly happy with my firm ti spring

 

[IH8Rice]

i'm 200lbs and not happy with the stock ti spring, but i'm perfectly happy with my firm ti spring

i did have the fork revalved but even before that i liked it. i tried the firm steel spring and it felt way too stiff for my liking.

 

[sethimus]

i couldn't ride with that much diving

 

[b.utters]

It's not too hard if you have never ridden anything different to that. Befor the 888's I had a pair of boxxer teams which were about the same sag, just with more sticktion.

 

[Udi]

Can anyone advise if I am correct in my assumptions?

I've been down that road and would suggest going for a more neutral setup, there's no reason for extremes when you have the right spring rate.

The problem with a setup that starts firm and blows off easier is that you'll have somewhat of an SPV effect - where the force required to get the fork moving adds harshness to your ride. A better tune might have less damping at those super low speeds (= a little more sensitivity), and increase in the mid speed range, which would be more useful in a hard corner, or the situation in your picture.

I don't think all your assumptions there are true either, for example the stack affects the whole damping range, so it's hard to just shim LS heavily (even though the larger shims will affect LS more). Shimming heavily and then running lighter oil seems unnecessary too, you're cancelling yourself out and also increasing the risk of making a mistake since you now have more control over the damping curve (not always a good thing).

I'd suggest trying the firm spring with the stock shimstack first, and then going back to the drawing board only if you're unhappy with something. It's hard to plan valving based on a spring you haven't tried.

If you want to tinker for the sake of tinkering though, maybe later you'd consider trying BKelly's posted setup.. he's a very fast rider back in aus and seems to be clued up too.

 

[b.utters]

Cheers, I will give the stock settings a go then. Probably best not to **** around with shims etc if I don't know what I'm doing :>

 

[JohnnyC]

Stock stack already has a lot of low speed and a decent amount of high speed compression already but if you do decide to change it, I would suggest trying the settings BKelly posted a page or 2 back as that 2-stage stack is a good way to lessen the high speed compression a little bit but still having decent low-speed support.


FYI I measure fork sag and the "attack" position and rear sag while seated. That way you can set both ends up with a similar % sag to get it feeling balanced. If you do both while seated, you need less sag in the front than the rear

 

[sethimus]

when i just want to relube the bushings/wipers, do i need to take out the oil first or can i leave it in and demount the lowers when the fork is turned upside down? only time i had it open was to install the ava cartridge and we poured out the oil first then...

 

[Lelandjt]

That would be messy and you'd still have dirty oil in there. Although we do put some grease on those parts, they mostly get lubed by all the oil sloshing around so replacing the grease isn't what makes the fork feel better, replacing the oil is. The quick fix would be to remove the top caps one at a time and dump the oil out, then refill. Not a thorough rebuild but it'd get rid of most of the dirty oil. If you can find some liquid teflon a squirt of that in the oil makes the fork feel smoother.

 

[sethimus]

i put the oil in in september and had like 5 days riding since. pretty sure its not the oil. fork has an inital stiction and sqeaks a little bit, when i put some triflow on the stanchion its gone, but comes back after a few rides. feels "dry"? thats why i want to grease the bushings...

If you can find some liquid teflon a squirt of that in the oil makes the fork feel smoother.

something like stanchion lube from finish line?

 

[Lelandjt]

Sounds like you do need to grease'em, but I think your method will be messy and change the oil volume. With the bike upside down, when you remove the lowers a fair amount of oil will run out of them. Just do a complete rebuild.
The "liquid teflon" I mentioned is just that, not a teflon fortified lube. I know it's kinda thick, white, expensive and I don't know where to get it but our Marz tech puts a squirt in each leg in addition to the Marz oil, which you should use because every brand is slightly different viscosity.

 

[IH8Rice]

finally

 

[sethimus]

Sounds like you do need to grease'em, but I think your method will be messy and change the oil volume. With the bike upside down, when you remove the lowers a fair amount of oil will run out of them. Just do a complete rebuild.
The "liquid teflon" I mentioned is just that, not a teflon fortified lube. I know it's kinda thick, white, expensive and I don't know where to get it but our Marz tech puts a squirt in each leg in addition to the Marz oil, which you should use because every brand is slightly different viscosity.

can you ask your tech what brand it is?

 

[b.utters]

finally

That excites me a bit.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

The future's looking good
Where's the rest of the fork?

 

[Lelandjt]

The future's looking good
Where's the rest of the fork?

The TiNi legs and this lighter upper crown (that accepts standard DM stems) will be on the 2012 888. I don't think there's any other changes. Funny this was posted cuz I was just told about it today.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Damn good looking fork!
New rebound damping?
I heard something that they'll come with a shimmed rebound piston?!

 

[IH8Rice]

The TiNi legs and this lighter upper crown (that accepts standard DM stems) will be on the 2012 888. I don't think there's any other changes. Funny this was posted cuz I was just told about it today.

i saw the KHS team with them this past weekend but didnt get a pic of them. ill get one next week on their bikes. they do look real nice, especially the TiNi coatings

 

[Deano]

aww damnit.. and i was perfectly happy with my '10 888 evo Ti.. now ive got envy .. i want a DM mount too.. just cos im in love with the Persist stem..