[Sandwich]

Thanks dude. I'm 200lbs without gear so I may have better luck with the firm than you did.

I have the CR, which doesn't have the volume adjust and has a completely different non-bath damper. Are you adding oil to the spring or damper side? I imagine it won't have the same effect in my fork as there's no real way to add more oil. I suppose I could mess around with the spring weight on the compensator piston, but I'm not there yet.

The bike isn't ready to be built yet, so I suppose I should just not worry about it until I ride it, but at least I know I don't need the X firm.

 

[gemini2k]

If anyone wants to be able to run a Ti spring in their 888 I have a stack of brand new Nickel Coated tapered stanchions in my garage I can unload super cheap.

 

[kazlx]

Que? Can I use these stanchions with a regular Evo? I shanked a stanchion and wouldn't mind replacing both.

 

[gemini2k]

Que? Can I use these stanchions with a regular Evo? I shanked a stanchion and wouldn't mind replacing both.

Yeah all the lowers/top caps are the same. Both types of stanchions will work in any 38mm 888 chasis.

 

[OGRipper]

Are you adding oil to the spring or damper side?

Spring side. I look at it like this: Compressing the fork compresses the air in the spring side of the open bath forks, to some extent, depending on the air volume. So in that sense, these coil sprung forks are actually coil AND air sprung. Reducing the air volume provides a more progressive fork. That's why they have a volume adjuster. Another way to change the air volume is to play with the oil level.

At the 80cc stock oil level, I don't think the volume adjuster does enough to really have an effect. But with roughly 3 times the stock oil level (225 - 250cc), the chamber becomes small enough that the fork becomes more progressive. I suppose you can fine tune from there with the volume adjuster but I haven't felt the need.

Another option is to use an air cap on the spring side instead of the volume adjuster. I haven't tried it but the theory is you can play with air pressure AND volume (with different oil levels) to get an even more custom rate.

But yeah, if you don't have an open bath fork I don't know if it would help.

 

[Sandwich]

Ooooooooooooooooooooh ok. I thought the additional oil level had something to do with the damping, which is why I was confused. Is the "volume adjust" dial on the spring side, or damper?

There's no reason I can't add oil to the spring side in my fork. It's actually described as a "semi-bath", but the damper, to my understanding, is sealed like an RS unit, but still has splashy bits in the lowers. I'll double check oil volumes but maybe I'll be fine with some extra juice in there. I don't want to mess around with the air cap and lose droop travel or start topping out. I'm fine with the natural air spring but I generally like minimal preload.

 

[Mr. Scribbles]

If anyone wants to be able to run a Ti spring in their 888 I have a stack of brand new Nickel Coated tapered stanchions in my garage I can unload super cheap.

Very interested, how much?

thanks,

 

[Ipsec]

I added maybe 20cc of oil to the spring side of my CR, and it made larger hits like the first drop at the top of Bone Saw at Highland feel harsh. Plus, I stopped getting full travel.

I removed some and it helped with the harshness, but I'm not sure how much I removed. It's possible I'm back to, or at least close to, the stock level. Ymmv.

 

[Sandwich]

interesting. Zokes list the oil volume at 400 for the right leg and 80 for the left. On mine, the damper is in the left leg, so I'm guessing that's reversed. You already have the firm spring though, so maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[JohnnyC]

400cc is right for the spring leg of the CR fork - if you want to alter the progression then add or subtract oil to that side

 

[Sandwich]

whoa, ok. So 400ccs in the spring side and 80cc in the damper? seems reversed. it's also 80cc more than the damper side of the rc3. Why does the RC3 need 80cc in the spring side and the CR needs 400cc? Still really sounding like a mixup...

 

[OGRipper]

If (as you said) the damper is sealed, you should only need a little oil on that side (for lube only), so 80cc makes sense. I'm not familiar with the CR fork enough to comment on that 400cc figure for the spring side. But if there is a larger volume of air in that side as compared to the RC3 (for whatever reason), it would follow that you need more oil to get that compressed air progression we've been talking about.

 

[JohnnyC]

Ok I'll clear some things up (also, I work on these forks every day -its my job- and know them inside out)

888 RC3 EVO

Open Bath Damper - 320-330cc on that side (with VA piston in place)
Spring side - stock is 80cc but I run 140-180cc to make it last longer, the damper side handles progression so most of teh time no need to go any higher.

888CR

Closed damper - 80cc in this side, for lubrication only
Spring side takes 400cc to give the fork progression since the damper side doesn't have any.

Note on the CR cart - This is Marzocchi' "dynamic bleed cartridge", in effect and function it is a closed damper, but assembly is much easier due to the assembly hole (allows it to self-bleed in use) and use of an IFP with a pressure spring as opposed to a high pressure gas). It is much like modern MX forks.

 

[Udi]

Wow, 400cc (~400g) in a leg that does absolutely nothing seems a little wasteful. You'd think some kind of volume reducer would have been implemented.

Does it bottom out easily if you run say 80cc?

 

[JohnnyC]

It is a lot of oil but marzocchi has always worked on the basis of more oil=better, and it's worked well, but that may change in the future. Bear in mind the overall weight is still close to a stock Evo V2 fork

As for running less oil, it would almost certainly bottom easily but you could try fitting a much longer bump stop To compensate. The elastomer ones from a 2010/11 44 or 55 rc3 long might work. They are 30ish mm long which would be enough to prevent metal on metal

 

[Sandwich]

Thanks dude! That actually clarifies everything. It also suggests why ipsec would have noticed harshness with additional oil...you're talking 420cc in the spring leg when the RC3 takes 80...different strokes.

so if the damper side takes 80, how much does the damper itself take? Is that not user serviceable?

 

[JohnnyC]

Cartridge it totally user-serviceable, but it sets the oil level itself so you don't need to know a volume. If you pull the cartridge out by undoing the footnote then top cap, the unit can simply be pulled apart in to 3 assemblies- top cap/ comp unit, damper tube and rebound shaft. The compression unit has the piston, shim stack, ifp, pressure spring and top cap. If you want to change the compression setting you can remove the Piston bolt now and change it. Then to reassemble you insert the comp unit in to the top ( note a small hole on the side of the tube), fill it with oil from the bottom, insert rebound rod and seat the seal head. Then hold the cartridge upside down again the bench and firmly hold the seal head in place (or it will pop out as soon as the cart is compressed) stroking the rebound shaft to bleed air out of the comp assembly. Then remove the rebound shaft, top it off with oil and put the rebound unit back then drop in to the fork. There is a stop at the end of the stanchion which stops the seal head from coming out once you tighten the top cap. For the first time at least, you may want to have the stanchion out of the lowers so you can see what's going on. Then once the top cap it tight and you ride the fork, when you first reach full travel the ifp is pushed up to past where that bleed port is and any excess oil is purged as the hole is exposed.

 

[dfinn]

I'm looking at buying a used '12 888 ti. The seller is willing to send it along with whatever ti spring I want. Any suggestions for a 220lb rider?

 

[rscecil007]

I'm looking at buying a used '12 888 ti. The seller is willing to send it along with whatever ti spring I want. Any suggestions for a 220lb rider?

I'd say a firm. I'm about that weight RTR and I went from the stock to a firm, and the firm felt WAY better.

 

[gemini2k]

I'm looking at buying a used '12 888 ti. The seller is willing to send it along with whatever ti spring I want. Any suggestions for a 220lb rider?

You want the firmest possible spring. I don't know if they are calling that firm or x-firm these days.

Also, you'll probably want to use heavier oil.

 

[EVRAC]

I'm 220 lbs, on a 2012 Ti, and just went from the stock medium ti spring to a steel firm, and it's perfect. For reference:

Medium = 5.5 N/mm
Firm = 6.5
x-firm = 7.7

So going from med to firm is + 18%. Going from med to x-firm is + 40%

I would not want x-firm, as you loose that small bump sensitivity, unless I was doing absolutely huge drops and nothing else.

Start with the 6.5, and then tweak from there with oil heights and damper adjustments.

 

[dytrdr5]

Hello all, since I have decided to move my 888 rc3 evo 2 over to the wives bike I have a couple of questions and a firm spring for sale, for someone around 200-220lbs. PM for spring info.

Questions are, is the soft spring soft enough for someone in the 110lb region. Also I was told that since I have one of the team issued forks that has the air valve cap instead of the turn knob for spring preload. I was told that you can actually remove the spring and just use the air valve to put air into that side and to run it as an air fork. Anyone have any experience with this? TIA

 

[dytrdr5]

myth confirmed, I just converted it over to an air fork. Nice, I can post pictures if you guys want but it basically looks like this http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/9013734/

 

[staike]

Questions are, is the soft spring soft enough for someone in the 110lb region. Also I was told that since I have one of the team issued forks that has the air valve cap instead of the turn knob for spring preload. I was told that you can actually remove the spring and just use the air valve to put air into that side and to run it as an air fork. Anyone have any experience with this? TIA

Yes, the soft spring will be fine. No, don't run it without the spring. It will be crap. Use looow air pressure just to fine tune spring rate.

 

[tabletop84]

he could use the ATA system

 

[IH8Rice]

he could use the ATA system

im assuming he wants a fork that will actually work

 

[dytrdr5]

it actually works pretty well, I haven't ridden on it but it feels like a really soft spring is in there. Rebound and compression are unaffected by this, considering how hard it is to get a hold of Marzocchi right now this will be the way it will be run.

 

[tabletop84]

im assuming he wants a fork that will actually work

Change one Oring and maybe remove the PAR piston and it works as good as any air-fork out there. Personally I wouldn't do it since it only spares you ~250g with the disadvantages of the air spring.

 

[tobiwan]

@ jonnyC: How complicated is the shim-tuning on a CR compared to the EVO-System?

 

[JohnnyC]

@ jonnyC: How complicated is the shim-tuning on a CR compared to the EVO-System?

Not much different really, the basic design of the damper isn't that much different apart from using the DBC design. The compression piston itself is pretty similar, you just need 10mm clamps to hold the shaft after sliding the IFP up out of the way.

 

[dfinn]

anyone know what stiffness the green striped spring is? and should a Ti spring be magnetic?

 

[IH8Rice]

and should a Ti spring be magnetic?

negative

 

[JohnnyC]

Green stripe is usually the firm-6.5N/mm steel spring, would explain the magnetic...ism....ness

Oh yeah someone 110lb might still struggle to get full travel even with the soft spring, I would remove 2 shims from the compression as well as the VA piston..should work a lot better

 

[6thElement]

Anyone got a link to rebuild instructions for a 2011 EVO Ti? I've scanned through this thread before looking and didn't see one.

I need to service mine before Mountaincreek opens next weekend.

 

[demonprec]

Anyone got a link to rebuild instructions for a 2011 RC3 Ti? I've scanned through this thread before looking and didn't see one.

I need to service mine before Mountaincreek opens next weekend.

if you find anything post a link i have a 08 rc3 i needed to freshen up and have not had much luck either

 

[6thElement]

The best I'd found before from this thread was the youtube link.

 

[demonprec]

cool thanx i,ll have to watch it a few times and make some notes

 

[tabletop84]

the only difficult part is to unscrew and tighten the bottom nut on the damper side. I recommend to just disasemble the stanction if the oil is relatively clean. Otherwise use something long and thin and maybe a tube or another rubber like thing to prevent the cartridge from spinning.

 

[Lelandjt]

With the wheel still on have a friend put all their weight on the handlebars. This pushes the bottom of the damper into the lowers hard enough to keep it from spinning while you turn the nut.

 

[tabletop84]

yeah another possibility but unless the oil and the cartridge didn't get really dirty there is no need to unscrew the cartridge in order to service the fork.