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2010 Schwalbe line up!

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
OK no reviews as of yet I just got back on the bike from a broken back and a concussion. Took longer to heal up this time :rolleyes:

Anyhow I got my start of stuff for this year and figured Id post tread shots, weights, info, additions to designs ie sidewalls and new compound.

First off they are a bigger profile tire so a 2.35 is pretty on par with a maxxis 2.5 and a 2.5 is on par with a maxxis 2.7 but the weights are good for the size as well as the sidewalls are thick. The single ply or as they refer to them the freeride are a little thicker than last season and all freeride versions come with SILVER logos and snakeskin sidewalls which is a tear resistant material in the sidewalls to take strikes and not allow gashing of the tire as well as prevent pinchflats.
The triple layer compound has harder center, and softer sides as well as a base layer that allows better rolling resistance. All these tires work well with tubeless set up Im currently running 2.35 DH Muddy marys now with stans on 823s and like last year I have had ZERO problems thus far. (I did blow up 3 rims last season and tires failed to seal, tires couldnt roll LOL)

DH and FR versions share the snakeskin sidewalls and the slip resistant coating to keep them from slipping on the bead in a tubed setup.

DH is 2 ply sidewalls FR is single ply sidewalls

DH has GOLD logos and FR has SILVER logos

As far as experience I love the muddy marys I have rode them for a while now with great succes and from Washington to Socal, bootleg and inbetween. They are a great intermediate tire.

New additions
Dirty Dan (strict MUD tire) which takes the place of the old black shark mud as far as similarities they both are bike tires, aside of that the DD has a more open lug design and is 2.35 (which is right at 2.5 maxxis) now its available in a slightly smaller version and single ply 2.0.
It has great side lugs as well for when its more leaned in a berm or flat, they are guey gluey so they are the softer compound for roots rocks etc and hooking up when its not a mud pit.

Wicked Will (strict dry tire loose over hard pack rocks etc) This tire was designed by team Yeti and is a loose over hard pack dry conditions low rolling resistance and made for the rocks as well.
This takes the place in the lineup of the almighty as far as terrain and use.

Muddy marys tread design has stayed the same as well as big bettys, Im running a triple rear and guey gluey front in almost all combinations this year and will have a update with the Dirty dan in a few weeks we are taking a trip up north to the mountains where theres plenty of MUD roots singletrack and rock chutes. I'm riding with another guy so we will have shots as well.

So this is the lineup reviews will follow shortly!

Oh and Im glad to be back on a bike, its like flying total freedom to just go!


The lineup


Took the Muddy Marys out in the grease mud! They clean really well as well as hook up as good as I remember in the Goo as well as loose over hard and rocks.



Heres some info from them regarding the technology on these tires





dirty Man 2.35 DH 1365g


Muddy Mary 2.35 DH triple compound 1210g (same size as maxxis 2.5)


Muddy Mary 2.35 freeride 820g


Wicked Will DH 2.5 triple 1450g (like a 2.7 maxxis)


wicked Will tread design


Dirty Dan tread


Dirty Dan side lugs


omparison of old blackshark mud (right) to the new Dirty Dan



DIRTY DANS REVIEW:
Like those times where nothing seems to go as planned and it’s down to kickin it with buddies and cheap beer. Yet somehow they are the best memories and turn out better than you could have expected! Well this is one of those bad beer moments hypothetically speaking!

---Now the Dirty Dan review---




Made plans with my buddy Mike to ride the 5k trail and test the Schwalbe Dirty Dans a few days ago, the snow was up above the tree line so it was prime for mud with the fast snow melt and the super steep chutes with rocks and rocky creeks would add the extra OSF (Oh $h!t factor). Figured if we are going to have spikes rolling on us this was it.

We gather our gear up the night before, Mike calls and asks if I have the other set of Dans for him to slap on and a “THE” fender to keep it out of his face. So I gather the extra stuff needed and pack it in the truck Monday night. Wake up Tuesday to snow flurries here at the house; well we are substantially lower than the 5k by a few thousand feet so I know they are getting dropped on. Well it’s the cheap beer moment, usually followed by watch this and looked back on with a smile with thoughts of what the hell were we thinking!

Well this turned out to be a great idea, with the exception of blowing up the rear drive mechanism in my hub it was way better day than we could have planned.

To give a layout of the trail it’s up towards the ski resort, right at the 5k marker you park and have to grab the bike and gear run across the road and jump over one of those road barriers that keep you from flying off the cliffs and hillside a thousand or so feet down. It’s an animal track so it’s tight, skinny and takes some extremely steep lines and exposed areas. It runs down and then along a rim to another super steep and long chute to the creek down below. It winds along exposed areas that are off camber, over rocks and through several creek crossings etc. This trail is not a beginner or intermediate trail even in the best of conditions so this made it that much more inviting!


Here’s what we headed to!




OK so to the performance of the tires!

Snow/Steep hills and mud:
6” of snow wet and muddy underneath on long super steep chutes between bushes and rocks off camber on a hill that at best braking acts like rudders and steers the bike but won’t stop it. You literally keep gaining speed with front and rear locked.
Mike and I were literally flying down the chutes with fingers lightly holding the levers but letting the traction hold the line and the brakes for an occasional rudder check for snap turns or pitching the bike for change in direction.
They performed flawless, complete grip all the way down with no loss of traction, there were a few spots I felt the back end get out (deeper skinny ruts) but only for a split second and the side lugs grabbed immediately getting it back in check.

Mud:
They hook up really well, totally predictable on cornering and the side shoulder lugs on them help the cornering and off camber spots amazing. I did note that Mike in front was using the outer side of the tire on an off camber section in mud and it held a line without issue. I hopped off the bike to take a look and slipped off the trail turns out its A LOT safer on the bike than off!!!

Rocks and creek:
Just that, I did not notice any shoulder roll on these over the rocks or sliding out, the guey gluey was a huge help in this department. I did notice that in the creek crossings that the spiked dug in and allowed me to keep my feet on the pedals and moving forward in deeper water vs. the wash out and foot off. The rock had snow, mud, wet and were jagged as well as off camber so we got a good amount of trail hazard that puts a tire through its paces.

Pedaling:
They tires have a lot less rolling resistance than expected especially for being a Guey Gluey compound (soft), they do like any spike tire dig and have a little but they brake in control as well as you can easily pedal up snow hills with very little spinning. I had to crank HARD a time or 2 to get the rear to slip while climbing and this along with a variety of things led to the demise of the rear drive in my hub. 235lbs and hammering on it intentionally didn’t go well together! Like all spike tires they have some lug vibration on pavement but its minimal with the softer compound.

The GUEY GLUEY compound worked out best with the terrain and conditions we had, these grabbed slick rocks and held a line.

So overall I’m impressed, I’ve had these to the jump lines, freeride line, hard pack, dry chutes at hells gate, ROCK solid frozen ground (that sucked), ladders and more and aside of a small amount of slip on wet wood ladders and ICE they performed a lot better than I could have planned. I have had these pinned and railing corners and have yet to get the white feeling of blood and fear as I lose control on a corner.





 
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bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
OK Im not on the Droid now so I can type a bit and fill in the gaps on the terrain ride and characteristics of the past week and Socal riding....

MUDDY MARY REVIEW:

1st Ankle is fractured so dr. says 6 weeks I say no cast a ace bandage and 2 weeks Ill be rocking Socal again! :thumb:

The terrain is DRY, dusty some is hard pack almost like sandstone that brakes away as you ride over it more like sand paper than anything and most of it is completely covered in kitty litter or course grain (granite) like material that likes to roll around. Rocks are slick and dusty as well as covered by the pebbley stuff making them loose ontop of dusty, the chutes are blown out 6-8" of dust/dirt and SUPER steep chutes where braking at best directs you but you gain speed still with both brakes locked up... Turns are on this steep stuff so as much as you dont want to straighten out the bike you have to to hop and pitch it a different direction to get into the next slide or trail angle/direction....
Tons of 10-18" rain ruts barely big enough to accomodate both pedals so alternating and hopping becomes a regular occurance....
Lots of hard braking to control the corners and outcome of the ruts and chutes as well as the speeds and diving in and out of ruts, g-outs and corners that are HARD with kittly litter look like a berm but are actually a horizontal tranch 6-8" into the berm so the tire has to stay put or it bites both top and bottom of the channel while leaned high speed and you go down hard...

So this covers alot of what the 4 days where with trails going from 4k descents to 16 mile single track with exposed edges and missing trail on cliffs... Several STEEP chutes, jumps, sandy doubles and more fun... Now I have ridden snow, Ice, ladders, stunts in 10 degree weather as well as MUD water crossings and everything in between and still aside of deep mud the tire of choice is my MUDDY MARYS.....

The Muddy Marys have taken care of me at every turn and junction/trail I have rode I opted for Guey Glueys both front and rear and had GREAT success on them. I did chunk the rears pretty good but considering we opted for some of the nastiest terrrain the US has to offer and did 4 days of SOLID beating on it (basically 40 grit sand paper) I have no complaints I did gash a rear tire on a bad rock that popped up on a line I chose which would have taken any tire out....

They stayed glued to the ground I noticed no lug roll over in the hard pack and I was able to get it layed out for 2 wheel drifts feet on pedals for wide open cornering... They were controlled the whole time and when I had intresting line choices (as overthedge said) using ruts as berms and just railing into them full speed anywhere and everywhere they hooked up on the sides of the ruts allowing me to enter and exit them at will... This took some time to adjust to and allowed me the option to open up new lines by just trusting them and letting it all hang out to see where Id hit the wall of grip and go over it.

I did run 2.5 Single ply Muddy Marys guey gluey the whole time rocks and all... I do like the dampened feel of a guey gluey on the chatter it has better characteristics as far as chattering the bike. It stays more leveled and less walking, I will run a triple next time for extra wear and see what the rear grip is on it...

If you look past cableguy you can see the valley below thats where we end up... Severl thousand feet down..









BIG BETTY REAR REVIEW:

OK slapped a Big Betty (FR 2.4 triple compound) rear on the bike to see how it handles the dry dusty stuff up, down and freeride and speed and so far great. Took it and rode the reserve trail, I had 33psi in it from a rode ride the other day with the kids on the green belt so I left it where it was at.

First the trail isnt too long has 1/2 climb thats on sand, loose over hard and total high desert blown out crap. I did let the PSI out to 28 in the rear as the harder compound was breaking free climbing sttep stuff as I was leaning over it and it was 33 psi... After letting pressure out it handled perfect and climbed perfect.
There is a weird road noise when it the parking lot especially when cornering as the lugs are acting like saws and edge biting then full bite. Its kind of a funky bawrrrrrrr noise but it means they are hooking up and they do the same thing in the dirt minus the noise they hook up.

Descents they performed without a hitch there was less rolling resistance than the Muddy marys and they snapped corners a bit better in the rear on really hard stuff but the loose sandy and blah stuff the Marys felt a little better. They brake really well as well as have a good solid feel on the ground. They have less spike bounce than a mary so they are a bit smoother, the triple compound sacrafices a little grip but gains ALOT of life over the guey glueys.
I can see these as a good whistler tire, or NW they would make a smokin hot race tire in the GG compound for say fontanna or other rocky dry chutes with lots of odd hard obstacles and where pedalling is a neccesity...

In hard berms or a bit of loose over hard they seem to really bite and pin in solid and concise and give a good planted feel.

Ill have some bike park pics and nasty trail pics along with a review after Saturdays ride... Josh is riding hte exact same combo as well and wont be swapping out anytime soon so Ill get some pics of him as well...
Manualing the S-curve at speed
 
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buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,786
4,727
Champery, Switzerland
Hey Bullcrew, the Dirty Dan is my favorite tire right now. It works very well on super steep stuff even if it's dry. I was blown away by how well it works on the Champery track in the dry. It is very predictable and doesn't let go like a wet scream does if the knobs start to fold.
 

frango

Turbo Monkey
Jun 13, 2007
1,454
5
How does Freeride Muddy Mary hold up with Stan's? I mean, can such thin wall tire be used for regular riding (mix of stones/roots), not racing?
And little OT... A Dueler? How long have You had it? How is it?
 

extGamer

Chimp
Jan 15, 2010
2
0
I have been using Maxxis for quite a long time, i would prefer sticking wit that. But dirty dan also looks good. :D
 
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bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
Frango: I ran Muddy marys freeride tubeless and had NO problems as a matter of fact thats what I was racing last season. Love the low weight and fast acceleration. the sidewalls are thicker than any sidewall Ive seen on a single ply out there. Ive rode ALOT of stuff on the single plys with better success than any other single ply Ive ran, Its got the snakeskin sidewall which prevents gashing and its thicker. Ive chalked mine and had the snakeskin webbing exposed a little which is better than ripped which is what I though was going to happen as hard as I hit it.

Buckow: Thats great to hear, As far as the Dirty dan thats good to know, thats my concern coming up shortly. The trails we are riding are swap goocrud with rocks covered in mud and just alot of terrain you wouldnt want to walk whens its wet or muddy.
 

frango

Turbo Monkey
Jun 13, 2007
1,454
5
I've had Big Betties 1ply for 2 seasons. I've been using them with super thin and regular XC innertubes. Such a PITA :|
I've finally switched to 2ply Minions with super thin XC tubes. I am very happy, now ;)
But... it would be cool to go back to lightweight tires w/o tubes :)
I would like to try ZTR Flows, one day :) with i.e. Schwalbe tires :)
I could shave about 750g from my bike! :O :D
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
Oh Frango I assume the dueler ie disco:
Love it, traction control is ridiculous and capabilities for a stock truck is amazing. Rides great and the marine leather interior is tough. Its a late model 03 so Im installing a CDL unit from 04 in it but even at that 03 and up the traction control was leaps and bounds better than previous years.

Ive been running tubeless 4 years now and ran alot of tires this way, the schwalbes have been the best by far. Ive used there UST and liked em alot the sidewalls are even thicker, I like the snakeskin sidewall its great feature. The UST diesnt have it but still a good tire.
 

frango

Turbo Monkey
Jun 13, 2007
1,454
5
Oh no... silly me... I meant the shock on the bike... it's not DSP Dueler, it's Elka... right? I was misled by the colors...
BTW, Disco is a cool truck. I like reg. plate, a lot ;)
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
Oh no... silly me... I meant the shock on the bike... it's not DSP Dueler, it's Elka... right? I was misled by the colors...
BTW, Disco is a cool truck. I like reg. plate, a lot ;)
Love the Elka stage 5 rides awedsome, Im selling the ti spring and Im getting another roco wc air on it.
Elka is a great shock dont have alot ot time on it but the valving they do for this bike feels really good right off the bat. I like and I would have never bought one so Im glad I got chance to ride it, I can say Id buy one now as it feels really good and the adjustments WORK well.
Elka stage 5 is a great shock!!!!!!

Sorry never heard of a dueller LOL it was the only thing that made sense :thumb:
 

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
Honestley I think the biggest issue with schwalbe here in the US is their pricing structure. The double ply DH stuff is similar to Maxxis or Michelin (all way too much $$ IMO compared to ANY other tire market, but at least they are competitive within the market), but the single ply products are WAY over priced.

Cost on a single ply schwalbe is just under twice what a single ply supertacky maxxis or comparable tire from other mfg. $160 for a set of single ply MTB tires is WAY too much, and will prevent schwlabe from ever being a big force in the US market. When your wholesale prices are the same as your competition's retail products....that is not good.

Making a better priciing destincition on products that are clearly less expensive to mfg, and getting their prices more in line with their competitors would go a long way to help them get a better foot hold here.

Beyond that, IMO they make way too many tires that overlap a fair bit (again, this could save $$), and their naming will always be an issue here. You don't see any well though out product with common American names (cities, states, surnames, etc) sold here (for good reason)...even if the same product is marketed in Euro with said 'American' name.


(Just to make sure people dont think that I am simply 'haitng', I do have a set of FR MMs on the way. GGG front, Tripple rear. Look to be good despite the rediculous price).
 

monkeyfcuker

Monkey
May 26, 2008
912
8
UK, Carlisle
Anyone care to give some direct comparisons between Muddy Mary and a Minion as a year round tyre? I pretty much ride Minions 99.9% of the time and love 'em but these look like they will be a tad better in ming.
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
Anyone care to give some direct comparisons between Muddy Mary and a Minion as a year round tyre? I pretty much ride Minions 99.9% of the time and love 'em but these look like they will be a tad better in ming.
I just pulled te monion dhf 3cs off as soon as my MMs got here, I ran them side by side last year and was overshooting the DH jump line at the park without pedalling any harder and was going through the corners faster will little effort. It basically is a faster rolling tire that hooked up well, this is just based on my opinion obviousley I rode minions for a long time LOVED them still do, when they got rid of slow reezay here I jumped to Kendas and as nice a company as they were it didnt fit my style I dont like the 2" void on cornering with the nevegals, granted its consistant I like the tire to grab all the way through the lean.
I went back to minions and after Bobby Root coming over to the house with an extra set and making me try them Ive been on them ever since.
let me say I LIKE MINIONS dhf I think its a GREAT tire, but I like my MMs a little better for speed and hooking up. Ive rode them in mud, wet, snow, ice, 100 degree + weather, long descents etc and they have not failed or left me hanging yet. LOVE the MUDDY MARYS.
 

Tayrob

Monkey
Jan 3, 2008
105
0
Any ideas if they're gonna do a harder compound rubber on the DH tires?
I know tons of people who are on MM's and BB's but they only last a month or 2 in the back.I'd like to a see something like a Maxxis 60 type of compound for rear DH use.
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
Any ideas if they're gonna do a harder compound rubber on the DH tires?
I know tons of people who are on MM's and BB's but they only last a month or 2 in the back.I'd like to a see something like a Maxxis 60 type of compound for rear DH use.
triple is the harder center compound guey gluey wears fast but thats why I use triple on rear GG front.
I get quite a bit of life this way as well as my pedalling tire is faster and less rolling resistance.
Also Schwalbes dont chunk really bad like alot of other tires Ive ran including minions which is nice to have the knobs there.

As far as the price the site is full MSRP alot of shops can set there price to a MAP (minimum advertised price or in between) which allows a better buy as well as just google it and theres places online with great prices.
So either your LBS, bro deal, online etc... Theres plenty of ways to get em, as well as any lBS can order them with no minimum order to get dealer pricing so they can order 2 tires or 20 tires!
 
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bohorec

Monkey
Jun 26, 2007
327
0
Dirty Dan (strict MUD tire) which takes the place of the old black shark mud as far as similarities they both are bike tires, aside of that the DD has a more open lug design and is 2.35 (which is right at 2.5 maxxis) now its available in a slightly smaller version and single ply 2.0.

Has anyone tested dh or xc version of Dirty Dan in winter conditions (hard snow, ice)?


I had black shark mud (orc compound) which was awesome winter tyre, now I'm looking for replacement. I guess XC version (triple nano compound) would be better than dh version of DD (gooey gluey compound)? Or should I get old black shark mud tires?
 
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bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
I have a set of BSMs for sale right now and Dirty dan DHs loaded on the 823s tubeless ready for the new jedi this week. Im going up north for a ride/review of the new Jedi and the Dirty Dans im mega crap weather. So hopefully a 330 mile drive to N idaho gives me some good and NASTY conditions.
I agrea the BSMs rocked I railed a set last year, so Im pretty excited to take the dirty Dans out and get em DIRTY. :D

Not this coming weekend but the following Ill have a full ride report from the nastiest stuff I can find, It will include rock, wood, roots, mud and hopefully snow and Ice. Id like to see if brundige will let me ride the mtn. I doubt it but I plan on calling and seeing if I can get myself and a NW rep on it for review purposes...
 

ucsbMTBmember

Monkey
Nov 20, 2009
137
0
Wicked will for loose over hardpack? im sorry but it fails. I absolutely love the tire on pure hardpack and rocks. but as soon as you hit any sort of loose spot the tire just slides and its impossible to turn. only use this tire if your trails are 100% hardpack. will probably work well at seaotter. However, this is the fastest rolling tire i have ever used. im going to try the muddy marys next. we'll see how that goes.
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
Wicked will for loose over hardpack? im sorry but it fails. I absolutely love the tire on pure hardpack and rocks. but as soon as you hit any sort of loose spot the tire just slides and its impossible to turn. only use this tire if your trails are 100% hardpack. will probably work well at seaotter. However, this is the fastest rolling tire i have ever used. im going to try the muddy marys next. we'll see how that goes.
I havent ridden them yet I have a set for this season, personally my #1 set up is
#1: big betty (triple rear) rear and MM (gueygluey) front (socal terrain)
#2: MM front and rear (triple rear guey front) (NW terrain)

I know the wicked will is designed for hard pack rocky courses, the muddy marys are a great intermediate and my definite go to tire but the Big betty works as a rear tire flipping perfect. Dual rows open center makes for easy pedaling, low rolling resistance and blocked edges for sticking a corner but accelerate awesome. I ran that combo last year it came recomended from the other side of the pond and worked....

The wicked will is a directional rolling lug with a v type pattern like a performance road tire, no big knobs or side blocks for stability just a good pattern as long as its hard and rocky. I can see where dust etc could/would cause them to wash.
 

bohorec

Monkey
Jun 26, 2007
327
0
I have a set of BSMs for sale right now .

Thanks, i'll try to get them locally first.

Importer for our country told us that DD(dh) becomes slightly brittle in low temperatures however it still keeps good traction. Well he also said that he has some black sharks in stock.
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,786
4,727
Champery, Switzerland
Wicked will for loose over hardpack? im sorry but it fails. I absolutely love the tire on pure hardpack and rocks. but as soon as you hit any sort of loose spot the tire just slides and its impossible to turn. only use this tire if your trails are 100% hardpack. will probably work well at seaotter. However, this is the fastest rolling tire i have ever used. im going to try the muddy marys next. we'll see how that goes.
Did you run it the direction Schwalbe recommends? Was it a Goey Gluey? I have had good results with a 2.5 GG Wicked Will run backwards to what they recommend as a front tire in loose over hardpack or bone dry with some sand. The Big Betty GG also worked well in these conditions as a front. When I ran the Wicked Will in the direction they recommend I found it washing a lot. A cut down Dirty Dan seems better to me in most any conditions.
 

ucsbMTBmember

Monkey
Nov 20, 2009
137
0
Did you run it the direction Schwalbe recommends? Was it a Goey Gluey? I have had good results with a 2.5 GG Wicked Will run backwards to what they recommend as a front tire in loose over hardpack or bone dry with some sand. The Big Betty GG also worked well in these conditions as a front. When I ran the Wicked Will in the direction they recommend I found it washing a lot. A cut down Dirty Dan seems better to me in most any conditions.
yep exact direction that it says on the tire. And yes, a GG. Same problem, washes a ton in anything remotely loose. works good for packed rocks but its pretty bad on loose rocks.
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,786
4,727
Champery, Switzerland
I ran it backwards and thought it worked well in loose over hard pack. I don't like it in the wet or very loose but on the very hard packed with loose stuff on top I liked the tire run backwards.
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
YEAH almost time to go try the dirty dans in some SLOP!
Tires are mounted tubeless (823s), new middleburns came in today, shock and frame tomorrow or fri latest and then tune dial and road trip!!!!!!

As far as teh muddy marys LOVE EM, if its a little harder not wuite wicked will material than a big betty rear and mm front... BOMB proof set up....
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
Thanks, i'll try to get them locally first.

Importer for our country told us that DD(dh) becomes slightly brittle in low temperatures however it still keeps good traction. Well he also said that he has some black sharks in stock.
The guye apparently hooks up less than in warmer and Id expect that as its a soft compound like gum when it gets cold it gets harder. Wont be as hard as a 60a but harder than the typical GG because its cold...

They work well in cold ive ridden GGs in SNOW and ice and ladders etc they hold up just fine and stay predictable...
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
Id check bikebling.com they rock and I thing redbarn bikes I know T at bikebling.com has a HUGE selections of schwalbe biggest Ive seen in a retail store but has good online prices. Theres always the alternative to get em from Schwalbe direct youll probably pay a nit more but Im sure they are in stock.