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Ithnu

Monkey
Jul 16, 2007
965
0
Denver
I learned a bunch about the BB yesterday. Saint and e13 have deeper threaded BBs. They will bottom out the press fit threads. I knew this with the Saints already since I had them in there before my e13s showed up. The e13 felt like it was tight with 1 spacer (on the drive side like instructions say) but it really just bottomed out the threads and is pressed against the press fit adapter. Looking closer I noticed the washer was a little loose too.

So when I started to take the BB out the press fit spun with it. I had to wiggle them both together and the press fit came out with the BB. I put it in a bench vise and removed the BB from the press fit.

I used a headset press to put the press fit back in frame, put the BB back on with 2 spacers. All set right? Nope, the e13 axle is too thick to fit through the press fit adapter. So I took everything back off and I put the Saints back on.

The Saints need 2 drive 1 non drive to keep everything tight, otherwise the preload nut on the spindle bottoms out on the spindle instead of the crank arm. Its similar to headset spacers, you need the top cap to hit the spacers not the steer tube or you won't get the whole thing to tighten up.

The Saints were like this on my Commencal DH Supreme too. I ran them for 2 years on that bike with zero issues, never came loose and no damage to the frame or cranks.

I don't care what the instructions say, this works.

And why is that press fit adapter plastic or some type of pressure molded fiber glass? Threaded composite/plastics? That doesn't sound like a good idea to me, it will wear out after a while. Come on Specialized you know better.
 

Ithnu

Monkey
Jul 16, 2007
965
0
Denver
There is a specialized part, and a Truvativ part. The Truvativ part is actually supposed to be better (according to a source at Specialized, no less.)
I looked around and saw some road versions, does Truvativ make a DH specific one? And is it better than the Specialized plastic thing? I really can't see plastic, or even cheap fiberglass, lasting.

*Edit - I found the Truvativ mountain bike one, it says composite. At least its not that expensive if the Specialized one wears out. One web page said $35.50.



It also looks like it has a wider center between the cups so the e13 spindle would fit.

**Double edit, that isn't threaded. So will it only work with SRAM cranksets?

I'm leaving mine with the stock one and Saint crankset until it has problems.
 
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Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
0
Towing the party line.
I looked around and saw some road versions, does Truvativ make a DH specific one? And is it better than the Specialized plastic thing? I really can't see plastic, or even cheap fiberglass, lasting.

*Edit - I found the Truvativ mountain bike one, it says composite. At least its not that expensive if the Specialized one wears out. One web page said $35.50.



It also looks like it has a wider center between the cups so the e13 spindle would fit.

**Double edit, that isn't threaded. So will it only work with SRAM cranksets?

I'm leaving mine with the stock one and Saint crankset until it has problems.
Pretty sure that's just a regular PF 30 BB (that isn't shipping yet.) They do have a threaded adapter a la specialized.
 

EVIL JN

Monkey
Jul 24, 2009
487
23
I have that PF30 BB and i will hopefully get to mount it with a pair of descendants this weekend. Will post on how that goes. Currently i am running holzfeller oct with the supplied cups which has worked with out much problems, just the standard backing of the crankbolts which i dont locktite either so that is more my own fault. No backing of the adapter cups.
 

jommpe

Chimp
May 6, 2011
1
0
I had the same problem with descendants. The drive side PF-cup pushed out about 5mm. The cranks had one spacer on the non- and the drive side, this was factory installment.
First I tried to add 1mm shims to the non drive side to limit the cranks movement. But the cranks didn´t work like they should work. And altough the PF-cups didn´t have the space to push out anymore, they kept rolling and keeping noise when pedalling hard.
Then I removed the PF-cups, and installed them with Locktite 641 - bearing glue. And now I have the bb installed like it came from the factory. 1 spacer per side. Since then I have not had any troubles. Hope this helps!
 

san_andreas

Chimp
Dec 16, 2010
54
0
A friend had problems installing the Descendants on a Giant Glory.
When installed according to the manual, the cranks were still loose.

After calling Truvativ, they recommended to tighten the cranks with 60Nm -> problem solved !
 

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,279
0
seattle
Someone above mentioned 'green' loctite. There are several of these compounds that are 'green' in color.

Green thread lock is NOT what you would want to use in this application (and may lead to the adapter failing).

Plastic safe, cylindrical retaining compound (like loctite 641) is.
 

san_andreas

Chimp
Dec 16, 2010
54
0
When installing bottom bracket adaptors on other Specialized frames like the triathlon frame, we never used any kind of glue. We installed them with a little bit of grease like a headset and never had problems.
 

zdubyadubya

Turbo Monkey
Apr 13, 2008
1,227
41
Ellicott City, MD
No, PF30 is exactly what specialized is. You are thinking BB30, which is different.
Oh... Okay... hmmmm... confused. :think:

BB30 is the shell right? Then you have three options (that I know of):

Option A: press bearings directly into shell, attach cranks

Option B: press bearing cups into shell (like shown above--PF30?), attach cranks

Option C: press threaded cups into shell, insert bb, attach cranks

so what are each of the three options called then and is the Demo's shell suitable for all three?
 

BOOMSLANG

Chimp
Apr 6, 2009
95
0
Morgan Hill
Let me try to clarify.

The Demo is PF30 - which stands for "Press Fit" 30. It is also 83 mm wide.

The PF30 system uses the exact same size bearing as BB30 and puts the bearings in the exact same location. So it is compatible with BB30 cranks.

The difference is that the bearings in a PF30 system sit in a plastic cup, which is easy for consumers to use and is easier to manufacture.

Additionally, if you have a traditional threaded crankset (which most of us do until the true 30mm cranks hit the market) then you can use a plastic adapter cup that is threaded to receive threaded cups.

Truvativ makes threaded adapter cups. Specialized makes cups too, but they don't work well after all and we encourage you to use the Truvativ ones.

As far as E.13 and other cranks, you will have to check with the manufacturer to find out how they are compatible with PF shells.

I know it's a little painful to understand now, but PF30 will become more common and most crank makers will be on-board. A 30mm spindle with press in bearings can save up to 1/2 lbs of weight, doesn't cost more, is easy to use and doesn't compromise anything.

Jsaon C
 

wood booger

Monkey
Jul 16, 2008
669
73
the land of cheap beer
Oh... Okay... hmmmm... confused. :think:

BB30 is the shell right? Then you have three options (that I know of):

Option A: press bearings directly into shell, attach cranks

Option B: press bearing cups into shell (like shown above--PF30?), attach cranks

Option C: press threaded cups into shell, insert bb, attach cranks

so what are each of the three options called then and is the Demo's shell suitable for all three?
The BB shell in the 2011 Demo is PFBB30. Instead of having and ID of 42mm (BB30 standard), it has a shell ID of 46mm.

So option A is out, but both B & C are in.

PFBB30 (Press Fit BB30) just allows for more options; standard threaded BB (24 or 30mm) or BB30 compatible direct press in cup/bearing (no threads).
 

EVIL JN

Monkey
Jul 24, 2009
487
23
So i have finally gotten my descendant cranks and now i am alittle confused on how to get the spacing right. I have a pf30 sram bb and the wheels adapters. I figured that the preload rings on the bb i should take out and then insert the adapters, to get them flush.
But after that i have realised that i need some more spacers, since if i would have used the normal gxp bb it is supposed to have two spacers on on both sides. Also when checking the non drive side crank bottoms out way before it hits the adapters. The wavywasher is also mounted.

Anybody knows how to space it properly? The manual gets a bit confusing, since on some options it shows parts that dont even come with the cranks or bb, like a preload collar.
 

JCL

Monkey
Aug 31, 2008
696
0
So i have finally gotten my descendant cranks and now i am alittle confused on how to get the spacing right. I have a pf30 sram bb and the wheels adapters. I figured that the preload rings on the bb i should take out and then insert the adapters, to get them flush.
But after that i have realised that i need some more spacers, since if i would have used the normal gxp bb it is supposed to have two spacers on on both sides. Also when checking the non drive side crank bottoms out way before it hits the adapters. The wavywasher is also mounted.

Anybody knows how to space it properly? The manual gets a bit confusing, since on some options it shows parts that dont even come with the cranks or bb, like a preload collar.
The Sram info is vague to say the least isn't it?

Do you have the option of installing the PF30 adapter supplied with the frame and the GXP BB?
 

EVIL JN

Monkey
Jul 24, 2009
487
23
Nope i had togh time getting them out so they are in bits and pieces. I hoped to run the true pf30 cups either way. Can i atleast install the cups and then try my way forward with how to space it? Since i dubt i should have any kind of spacer between the frame and the bb cups.
 

EVIL JN

Monkey
Jul 24, 2009
487
23
Step 5 is what you could call a shortcut, you should probably take apart the can properly but it has worked for me no probs what so ever.
Step by step guide.
1 Release all air out of the spring reservoir
2 Take of the rebound knob.
3 Screw in the rebound adjuster, so it sits flush with the body
4 Get a pair of pin spanners 2.2mm (Park tool has one in red), untread the end lockring and remove it.
5 Compress the shock a bit then push back the reservoir a small bit. After that you hold the reservoir in place and turn the eyelet so it points towards the drive side.
6 The eyelet fits in the reservoir in small slots, locate the appropriate one.
7 Screw back the lockring and set the rebound, you cant have the knob on when its mounted.
8 Mount it, pump it up (air will escape to the negative side so you have to fill it then compress it and repeat that a few times).
9 Go out and shred some turns!!!!!!!!!
 

ustemuf

Monkey
Apr 8, 2010
198
14
Bay Area
how important is step 6... cause none of the available slots will work without the air canister valve rubbing on the frame.

i can get it tight, and positioned correctly - but not aligned in the slot. ... i think im going for it. i'll keep an eye on it to make sure its not rotating.
 
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jnooth

Monkey
Sep 19, 2008
390
1
Vermont Country
how important is step 6... cause none of the available slots will work without the air canister valve rubbing on the frame.

i can get it tight, and positioned correctly - but not aligned in the slot. ... i think im going for it. i'll keep an eye on it to make sure its not rotating.
you may be confused. the only position the air can, can be oriented so the valve can clear the frame is in the upper drive side position. so you have to rotate the eyelet independently from the can. The can has to stay in the stock position while the eyelet has to be rotated 90 degrees.

simply rotating the air can along with the eyelet will not work. sorry if i just restated what you already know.
 

ustemuf

Monkey
Apr 8, 2010
198
14
Bay Area
you may be confused. the only position the air can, can be oriented so the valve can clear the frame is in the upper drive side position. so you have to rotate the eyelet independently from the can. The can has to stay in the stock position while the eyelet has to be rotated 90 degrees.

simply rotating the air can along with the eyelet will not work. sorry if i just restated what you already know.
? not sure what you are even saying. yes, i depressurized the shock and used the pin spanner to loosen the lock ring and rotate the can independently.

the problem is even if i do that still, the air valve does not work in any of the four "slots" for the canister to be locked in.

i'm pretty sure i'm goin to have to flip the shock yoke upside down for it to work in one of the "locking" indents.
 

Rigger

Chimp
Jul 29, 2004
76
0
NV
I got my Vivid to work by getting a special yoke from Specialized, removing the rebound adapter (4mm allen key works) and grinding a tab as mentioned earlier. I think Joe public might be SOL for a bit.
 

ustemuf

Monkey
Apr 8, 2010
198
14
Bay Area
its ghetto rigged to get on but been riding on it two days now and it works just fine so i'll leave it as is.

dialed it in a bit more... i'm really impressed with this shock!

 

bismojo

Monkey
May 5, 2009
271
36
I got my Vivid to work by getting a special yoke from Specialized, removing the rebound adapter (4mm allen key works) and grinding a tab as mentioned earlier. I think Joe public might be SOL for a bit.
Can you describe the difference between 'standard' and 'vivid' yoke? (maybe visually if possible) And which tab did you grind? Thanks.

its ghetto rigged to get on but been riding on it two days now and it works just fine so i'll leave it as is.

dialed it in a bit more... i'm really impressed with this shock!
Nice bike, are you using standard yoke? Can you still use the low-bb setting? Also how's the ride compared to RC4 (ride height, progressiveness, pop etc) .. many Thanks.
 

PDS RX

Monkey
Sep 11, 2007
145
0
Richmond VA
use the search
that was helpful :rolleyes:
so far in this tread I have got that you can ditch the stock adapter and run an pf30 bb but they only come in 68/73 and I don't know if that will work. I have dremeled the stock adapter to fit the e-13's larger axle but the bb cups are too long and don't thread in flush with the adapter, so any tips?
 

Ithnu

Monkey
Jul 16, 2007
965
0
Denver
how are you guys mounting e13 cranks?
If you go back a few pages you'll find out that we aren't. JasonVelocity and I both have a set that are not on our Demos. We both put Saints on.

The Truvativ adapter doesn't have the clearance for the e13 spindle. We have to wait for e13 to make one.